Where are the real populists (Tea partiers) now?

[wkmac]

As for Iran, to be fearful of them is a joke so you must believe we have ulterior motives for all our drum beating as of late.

We lived, and still do, under the threat of total annihilation, if Russia so chose to do it. And yet we fear a little pissant country in the Middle East? Please, give me a break.

Our only concern is oil, oh and let's not forget the unofficial 51st state, Israel, that we have sworn to protect. Even though they are sitting on who knows how many nukes and are quite capable of protecting themselves.

All I ask: can I please choose what my tax dollars are spent on? Then the armchair generals can blow up the world but at least I can have a clear conscience that I didn't help pay for it.

Absolutely I believe we have ulterior motives as one need look no further than Kermit Roosevelt and Operation Ajax and it's been that way ever sense. And speaking of our 51st State, Stephen Walt had some interesting comments about them in relation to revelations in the UK and Tony Blair's testimony on the Iraq War. As for Iran, it's the same ole monkey business so nothing should be a surprise IMO. Even as we speak, political decent is starting to be quashed under the guise of the risk to security of the State. Not risk to the people, but the risk to the State and there's a big difference. But even now, jewish scholars and jews of learning and letters are taking a fresh look at history and the history of zionism and making startling discoveries. To say that this bestseller in Israel is causing shockwaves is an understatement but before we point accusatory fingers at Israelis, let us consider the effects of christian zealotry and blowback. It goes a bit without saying that much of the embedded problems in the Middle East stem from the Crusader era and manifest today as a type of blowback but if the allegations about Zionist history are true, would it not behoove christian Europeans to examine their past overzealous natures in formenting a reaction of self protection among jews that helped to foster zionist ideas? Whose the greater sin? The one that pulls the trigger or the one who hands them the loaded gun and browbeats them until they pull the trigger? Zionist zealotry a blowback reaction to Christian Zealotry? Maybe had we embraced our friends and neighbors as friends and neighors home would have been where they lived and not the need for some far away place for them to flee too. Seems to me we might have a lot of fence mending ourselves to do before we point too many fingers.

Someone rightly pointed out that our alliance with Israel was a cold war necessity and I won't debate the necessity part but the alliance was a cold war fact. Now I believe some within the poltical and policy circles of Washington really aren't behind Israel at all and they know it, otherwise why would true friends spy and commit espionage on one another. The US policy setters have Israel in place as the first breech to act as the sacrificed lamb if need be in a major Arab revolt. The Israelis will be the Middle East Hamburger Hill while the Uncle Sam Generals and chickenhawk planners amass a counter attack with what is left of both Arab and Jew and then take the lands themselves as the spoils of war. Not much has really changed from the Crusades, has it?

Good people across the planet are beginning to question what we've been doing and how we got here and many don't like what they see. The moral and ethical contradictions alone are maddening to say the least. As bad as things look I still say "Glass Half Full!"

 

[tieguy]

Believe me, I am no fan of China. In fact I think it is the height of hypocrisy that we refused to do business with the U.S.S.R for all those years and yet we have flung open our doors to Communist China.

But the fact is...no one is flying planes into their skyscrapers. Maybe they just don't have the problem of blowback like we have.

you can read a lot into that. Ultimately it may not be blowback but opportunity. Too many small pissant non agressor countries also getting attacked to think its our foriegn policy that is the catalyst.

 

[wkmac]

And there's more here and here to rethink certain perspectives of history.

Seems the Iranians world shaking was more chest thumping than anything else. Except for certain chicken littles in the west who saber rattle when a mouse farts, this announcement means next to nothing. Sure, Iran can now restock it's depleted medical isotopes as 20% enriched uranium allows this but I've no doubt we'll hear the chicken hawks sqwauking about Iranian nukes. I guess it doesn't matter that weapons grade material is enriched to at least over the 90% level and the expansion of the certifuge cascade is vastly multiplied to even think about getting to that level. But that's right, Iran like Iraq has that secret weapons program that no one can see but if we invade, like Iraq we'll find a huge stockpile of weapons and massive producution facilites.

Right? Right? HELLO! HELLO! HELLO! Where'd everyone go that supports that storyline?

 

[tieguy]

As for Iran, to be fearful of them is a joke so you must believe we have ulterior motives for all our drum beating as of late.

We lived, and still do, under the threat of total annihilation, if Russia so chose to do it. And yet we fear a little pissant country in the Middle East? Please, give me a break.

Our only concern is oil, oh and let's not forget the unofficial 51st state, Israel, that we have sworn to protect. Even though they are sitting on who knows how many nukes and are quite capable of protecting themselves.

All I ask: can I please choose what my tax dollars are spent on? Then the armchair generals can blow up the world but at least I can have a clear conscience that I didn't help pay for it.

Jimmy hope everything is alright in your life but you worry me because of these types of arguments.

there is nothing crazy about feaing a crazy Iranian dictator may have nukes under his control. Surviving the soviet threat does not diminish the crazy Iranian threat.
If oil was truly the motivaton as you say then we would appease the idiot not challenge his ownership of nukes.

 

[BigJohnnyO]

Funny, did you feel that way when the unions were trashing Bush?

Strong Union Jobs come from Strong Growing Businesses...We won't get that from Barack Hussein Al-Obama. He knows nothing about business.

 

[wkmac]

Appeasing an idiot!

Sure sounds like that to me too! Maybe the old toothless dog is being seen for what he really is now and just being ignored.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Jimmy hope everything is alright in your life but you worry me because of these types of arguments.

there is nothing crazy about feaing a crazy Iranian dictator may have nukes under his control. Surviving the soviet threat does not diminish the crazy Iranian threat.
If oil was truly the motivaton as you say then we would appease the idiot not challenge his ownership of nukes.

Tie, thanks for your concern but I assure you that I am quite alright.

As for the Iranian leadership, I agree, they are not what I would consider wise and sage leaders. In fact, they are a-holes. But are they suicidal? Do they really want to bring upon themselves the destruction of their country? For that is surely the prospect they would face if they dared to launch a nuclear weapon at us or Israel.

Also, why would you appease someone you want to ultimately control? Wouldn't it make more sense to confront them? And is that not the path we are presently on? And why do we want to confront them? Oil. It's always about oil in that part of the world. If those oil wells ever start drying up you will see how fast we lose interest.

Whatever, let's go to war. But when medicare, social security, schools, police, roads, etc. have less and less money, remember where all our tax dollars went. And I am not even making the argument that govt. should even provide those services. But the fact is the govt. does and we rely on that to make our domestic life function.

Maybe you will not need medicare and social security to supplement your retirement, but I do. And unfortunately, because of the slow but sure destruction of the middle class, more and more people will rely on these sources, too. It will be a shame if nothing is left after we are done fighting over someone else's damn desert.

 

[av8torntn]

But are they suicidal? Do they really want to bring upon themselves the destruction of their country? For that is surely the prospect they would face if they dared to launch a nuclear weapon at us or Israel.

I think that they want to follow the will of Allah. If Allah tells their leaders to kill the Jews that is exactly what they will try and do. My opinion only. I think they believe that Allah will protect them if they follow his will. I've heard stories, and that is what they were, of men running into battle during the Iran-Iraq conflict armed only with a copy of the Koran and a belief that they were following the will of Allah.

 

[tieguy]

Tie, thanks for your concern but I assure you that I am quite alright.

As for the Iranian leadership, I agree, they are not what I would consider wise and sage leaders. In fact, they are a-holes. But are they suicidal? Do they really want to bring upon themselves the destruction of their country? For that is surely the prospect they would face if they dared to launch a nuclear weapon at us or Israel.

I think you're being kind. The Iranian leadership is plumb crazy and yes I think you would have to agree that their belief is sucide leads to Martydom and heavenly rewards. In fact the Ayatollah Khomeni himself is the one that has pushed that belief and provided that translation.

Also, why would you appease someone you want to ultimately control? Wouldn't it make more sense to confront them? And is that not the path we are presently on? And why do we want to confront them? Oil. It's always about oil in that part of the world. If those oil wells ever start drying up you will see how fast we lose interest.

It appear you're taking a different tack. You previously said it was all about oil. If you're right then we don't confront them we appease them. I'll conceed the point to you though if we end up invading Iran.

Whatever, let's go to war. But when medicare, social security, schools, police, roads, etc. have less and less money, remember where all our tax dollars went. And I am not even making the argument that govt. should even provide those services. But the fact is the govt. does and we rely on that to make our domestic life function.

I think to fully except your argument we have to totally convert to the role of a submissive country. I think we have to be prepared that world events now unchecked may lead to extreme hardships in our country. The submission mindset will now be a lot different from the pride in americanism swagger we have become used to.

Maybe you will not need medicare and social security to supplement your retirement, but I do. And unfortunately, because of the slow but sure destruction of the middle class, more and more people will rely on these sources, too. It will be a shame if nothing is left after we are done fighting over someone else's damn desert.

You have no retirement plan? No 401K option ? no other investments?

I dont understand the desert comment. Is Afghanistan a desert? Iraq is conquered and no longer a war.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Extreme domestic hardships are going to come because we cannot continue to maintain this empire for much longer.

We still have troops in Japan and Germany for crying out loud. How long ago did WWII end? The fact is if we win we do not win...we never come home.

Hell, looked at in that vein maybe we did win Vietnam...we actually left there!

As for Muslims and Jews, from what I understand Islam teaches tolerance towards Jews and Christians. We are all "people of the book". Thats not to say they believe Christian and Jews are equals with Muslims. But if I am not mistaken it is pagans that Islam has a much deeper problem with, for obvious theological reasons.

Muslims have animosity towards the Jews for the injustices visited on their brethren the Palestinians. Start rectifying that and maybe we will be on the path to peace. But either way I don't have a dog in that fight. And neither does America, though we are being, and have been, convinced otherwise.

As for my retirement, don't you want what's due you? What you paid for? Does your company health coverage extend past medicare eligibilty age? Would you be open to the goverment confiscating your 401K in order to pay for the invasion of Iran? Because as the goverment keeps cutting benefits that is what they are doing, stealing from you to pay for their wars.

Believe me I am not relying on the goverment for my retirement. But I am not going to roll over and be like everyone else and say "by the time I retire there will be nothing left". Why do we accept that? Hell, why do we accept a lot of bs. Because we are conditioned to. Just like that old chestnut, "well, what are you going to do, it's a global economy". Translation: "just accept the fact that your job is going to be outsourced and there is nothing that can be done". I call bs on all of it.

Whew, what a rant that was.

 

[av8torntn]

As for Muslims and Jews, from what I understand Islam teaches tolerance towards Jews and Christians. We are all "people of the book". Thats not to say they believe Christian and Jews are equals with Muslims. But if I am not mistaken it is pagans that Islam has a much deeper problem with, for obvious theological reasons.

Muslims have animosity towards the Jews for the injustices visited on their brethren the Palestinians. Start rectifying that and maybe we will be on the path to peace. But either way I don't have a dog in that fight. And neither does America, though we are being, and have been, convinced otherwise.

:

From my personal observation, and trust me when I tell you that I am far from an expert on religion, the hatred for non Muslims has little to do with Israel. Just from what I saw while the average Muslim on the street might not be willing to kill you for the simple fact that you are not willing to follow the will of Allah they are more than willing to turn a blind eye while someone else kills you. They will then just say must've been the will of Allah. They hate me because I choose to not pray five times a day. They hate me because I enjoy a good BBQ sandwich. They hate me because I am tolerant and easily amused by other religions. They do not understand that I will never have a month long fast. They hate me because I made fun of them for having gay sex once a year because they believe their prophet will be reborn from a man because a woman is to unclean. All have nothing that I know of to do with Israel. Although like I said I know little about the Jewish faith. But in reality they hate me for my freedoms and all that I talked to would trade places with me and many even begged for the opportunity to do so.

 

[Lue C Fur]

From my personal observation, and trust me when I tell you that I am far from an expert on religion, the hatred for non Muslims has little to do with Israel. Just from what I saw while the average Muslim on the street might not be willing to kill you for the simple fact that you are not willing to follow the will of Allah they are more than willing to turn a blind eye while someone else kills you. They will then just say must've been the will of Allah. They hate me because I choose to not pray five times a day. They hate me because I enjoy a good BBQ sandwich. They hate me because I am tolerant and easily amused by other religions. They do not understand that I will never have a month long fast. They hate me because I made fun of them for having gay sex once a year because they believe their prophet will be reborn from a man because a woman is to unclean. All have nothing that I know of to do with Israel. Although like I said I know little about the Jewish faith. But in reality they hate me for my freedoms and all that I talked to would trade places with me and many even begged for the opportunity to do so.

+1 with 2 thumbs ups for good measure.

 

[diesel96]

From my personal observation, and trust me when I tell you that I am far from an expert on religion, the hatred for non Muslims has little to do with Israel. Just from what I saw while the average Muslim on the street might not be willing to kill you for the simple fact that you are not willing to follow the will of Allah they are more than willing to turn a blind eye while someone else kills you. They will then just say must've been the will of Allah. They hate me because I choose to not pray five times a day. They hate me because I enjoy a good BBQ sandwich. They hate me because I am tolerant and easily amused by other religions. They do not understand that I will never have a month long fast. They hate me because I made fun of them for having gay sex once a year because they believe their prophet will be reborn from a man because a woman is to unclean. All have nothing that I know of to do with Israel. Although like I said I know little about the Jewish faith. But in reality they hate me for my freedoms and all that I talked to would trade places with me and many even begged for the opportunity to do so.

It's safe to say, if we followed our founding fathers philosophy of non interventionist, and our Christian/Western armies were not meddling on Allah's so called "Holy Land", plus, we convince Israel to stop pushing the envelope of expansion and segregation, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 300 Marines who's Barracks were blown up would still be alive today, the USS Cole wouldn't have sadly lost crew members and have a hugh hole in it's hull, 3000 New Yorkers/1st responders would still be with their loved ones, and the Twin Towers would still be standing. And all this, before the Iraq Debacle which had nothing to do the above mentioned, just some fairy-tale weapons of mass-destruction....Since 1776, have Muslims attacked us for our freedoms for nearly 200 hundred years ? Or might it just be we made easy targets as interventionist.... Wasn't a Young America's goal, not to be like Old England.....BTW, If I invite you over to my BBQ tommorrow, will you leave your Glock home.....

 

[wkmac]

It's safe to say, if we followed our founding fathers philosophy of non interventionist, and our Christian/Western armies were not meddling on Allah's so called "Holy Land", plus, we convince Israel to stop pushing the envelope of expansion and segregation, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 300 Marines who's Barracks were blown up would still be alive today, the USS Cole wouldn't have sadly lost crew members and have a hugh hole in it's hull, 3000 New Yorkers/1st responders would still be with their loved ones, and the Twin Towers would still be standing. And all this, before the Iraq Debacle which had nothing to do the above mentioned, just some fairy-tale weapons of mass-destruction....Since 1776, have Muslims attacked us for our freedoms for nearly 200 hundred years ? Or might it just be we made easy targets as interventionist.... Wasn't a Young America's goal, not to be like Old England.....BTW, If I invite you over to my BBQ tommorrow, will you leave your Glock home.....

Nicely said!

Can I get the same invite in a few more weeks after the full squads start spring training play? I'll even spring for the tickets and the first beer. After that, you're on your own but since I don't drink I'll drive and you can get smashed!

 

[wkmac]

They hate me because I enjoy a good BBQ sandwich.

THAT'S IT, NUKE THE BA$TARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That BBQ, is that Interstate or Corky's?

Pure Heaven!

 

[av8torntn]

THAT'S IT, NUKE THE BA$TARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That BBQ, is that Interstate or Corky's?


Pure Heaven!

I can't believe you'd put Neely's interstate BBQ in the same sentence. That's just offensive. I'll leave rendezvous for the tourists and take corky's any day. Just give me a ribs and pork killer plate with dry ribs and hush puppies and french fries. mmmmmm I can almost feel my arteries clogging thinking about it.

 

[av8torntn]

It's safe to say, if we followed our founding fathers philosophy of non interventionist, and our Christian/Western armies were not meddling on Allah's so called "Holy Land", plus, we convince Israel to stop pushing the envelope of expansion and segregation, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 300 Marines who's Barracks were blown up would still be alive today, the USS Cole wouldn't have sadly lost crew members and have a hugh hole in it's hull, 3000 New Yorkers/1st responders would still be with their loved ones, and the Twin Towers would still be standing. And all this, before the Iraq Debacle which had nothing to do the above mentioned, just some fairy-tale weapons of mass-destruction....Since 1776, have Muslims attacked us for our freedoms for nearly 200 hundred years ? Or might it just be we made easy targets as interventionist.... Wasn't a Young America's goal, not to be like Old England.....BTW, If I invite you over to my BBQ tommorrow, will you leave your Glock home.....

Not only have American been killed so have others over the last couple hundred years. You take the populist view on this subject and I personally feel that history does not back this view up. That is just my opinion. When I look at the muslims joining Hitler so they could go to Russia and kill Jews I see it as just that. I myself see no justification for joining Hitler. You I think and others see the British as a justification for this.

I'm a Sig Sauer fan not much on the Glock.

 

[wkmac]

I can't believe you'd put Neely's interstate BBQ in the same sentence. That's just offensive. I'll leave rendezvous for the tourists and take corky's any day. Just give me a ribs and pork killer plate with dry ribs and hush puppies and french fries. mmmmmm I can almost feel my arteries clogging thinking about it.

DAMN! Now I'm hungry!

 

[av8torntn]

DAMN! Now I'm hungry!

One of the few valid reasons for me to go into Memphis on a non work day.

 

[av8torntn]

It's safe to say, if we followed our founding fathers philosophy of non interventionist, and our Christian/Western armies were not meddling on Allah's so called "Holy Land", plus, we convince Israel to stop pushing the envelope of expansion and segregation, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 300 Marines who's Barracks were blown up would still be alive today, the USS Cole wouldn't have sadly lost crew members and have a hugh hole in it's hull, 3000 New Yorkers/1st responders would still be with their loved ones, and the Twin Towers would still be standing. And all this, before the Iraq Debacle which had nothing to do the above mentioned, just some fairy-tale weapons of mass-destruction....Since 1776, have Muslims attacked us for our freedoms for nearly 200 hundred years ? Or might it just be we made easy targets as interventionist.... Wasn't a Young America's goal, not to be like Old England.....BTW, If I invite you over to my BBQ tommorrow, will you leave your Glock home.....

I was thinking about your stand while at work tonight. First I think that when a Muslim nation invaded Kuwait and other Muslim nations asked us to lend a hand and help out which we did is nothing more than an excuse by the religious groups to attack western targets. The same type of excuse could have been used by them if we were asked to help and refused.

I did a quick search and found some Muslim attacks on Americans from before 93 and there are more but these seem to be good examples although I realize if you want you can make an argument against any of them. In my opinion 9-11 was nothing more than a target of opportunity for AQ. I have never accused them of being smart like some on here have and I believe strategically their attack was a failure. If for no other reason than those attacks opened a very large can o whoop on them. They failed to collapse our economic system, failed to disrupt our military command and control to deter a counter attack, and failed to take out our nations leadership.

I also find it unreasonable to say that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but in the same breath claim AQ attacked us because of Iraq. There is a term for this line of reasoning and it honestly slips my mind right now.

I'd love to get an invite to a BBQ but this weekend I'm cooking for the girlfriend. I'm gonna go Cajun with a roasted pork loin and jambalaya with a nice bottle of wine.
November 1979: 2 dead at the U.S. embassy in Islamabad. ]
April 1983: 63 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.
October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.
December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.
January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.
April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.
September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).
December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.
June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.

and on American soil

July 1980: an Iranian dissident killed in the Washington, D.C. area.
August 1983: a leader of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam killed in Canton, Mich.
August 1984: three Indians killed in a suburb of Tacoma, Wash.
September 1986: a doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.
January 1990: an Egyptian freethinker killed in Tucson, Ariz.
November 1990: a Jewish leader killed in New York.
February 1991: an Egyptian Islamist killed in New York.
January 1993: two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.
February 1993: Six people killed at the World Trade Center.
March 1994: an Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.
February 1997: a Danish tourist killed on the Empire State building.
October 1999: 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City

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