While I'm no TDU basher...

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by sortaisle, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. sortaisle

    sortaisle Livin the cardboard dream

    I got rather upset when I read this article...
    The Choice at UPS: Believe Hoffa-hall or Believe in Yourself | Teamsters for a Democratic Union

    The entire article is filled with speculation and has no facts attached to their claims. People go to this site for information and while they're good about posting contracts, the way they slam their opinions with no facts isn't helpful. Yes it's true that 18 supplements rejected their locals rider, yes it's true that healthcare was probably the main issue. There's no proof whatsoever that Hoffa/hall went into hiding, there's no proof that it's a tactic to deflate the steam of the no vote. While it's possible that those are the case, it's also possible that we'll win the lottery, get struck by lightning, or show up to work with actual 9.5 dispatches. This was a little disappointing for me. I can almost see why Stink and 407 are so :censored2: with them from time to time...almost.
  2. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    There's no proof they have went into hiding? What have u heard about the contract. We have had zero union meetings or heard even a peep asked about what needs to change for our supplement to pass. That's a fact

    Also there's no proof it's a tactic but an educated guess says they are gonna wait until mid August to September when everyone starts saying hey where is my raise and then bring the contract to a revote with very little changes.
  3. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    Look at everything TDU puts out there. Nothing is ever positive it's only negitive. There is a lot the Hoffa and hall have done but never any credit given. As an adult doesn't there seem like there's something wrong that.
  4. sortaisle

    sortaisle Livin the cardboard dream

    Look...all I'm saying is while it looks sketchy there isn't any proof. There isn't any informed information and it seems people being upset with the contract and projecting their own feelings on the big nothing that's happened so far. It's how "witches" were burned at the stake. It's all speculation. If people are honestly :censored2: the paltry 70 cents that they're going to be missing shouldn't sway them. I personally hope they wait till next August so the retro check we get will be worth the wait. I'm ok with being upset about the nothing. I'm not ok with burning guys at the stake with no proof of what's going on. The logistics of this is crazy. And that's besides the fact that Hoffa and hall have little to do with working on Local supplements. If you're going to persecute anyone, make it your local Sec Tres. It's them that's dropping the ball at this point.
  5. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    I agree they have an agenda. As do the teamsters. U take what u get from both sides and figure the truth is somewhere in the middle.
  6. Benben

    Benben Active Member

    But it is some information about something. 407, I/we/them/some don't give a flip about the TDU. Its almost like the Democrats and Republicans in DC. They are so busy trying to figure out what the other is doing that they get absolutely nothing accomplished. Now I said I/we/them/some because I don't know who follows the TDU and who doesn't and personally don't care. I have asked around at my building and a very few drivers have said a group of malcontents but the vast majority say, "who?"

    Its like taking a truck out after the PCM, returning at 7pm and you did not record one stop in the DIAD. Your Sup would question if you did anything all day. You'd tell him, "yeah the truck was full when I left and now its empty, see I did something." How would that fly?

    We rely on the IBT to collectively bargain for US. For this service we pay over $30,000 while at UPS. When the IBT does not communicate with any of those that pay their salaries we tend to get a little perturbed. The IBT seems to operate under the grand concept of, "No news is good news." For those of us that try to plan our lives, the lives and the well being of our families no news is scarier than bad news. When we realize that we pay $30K for the priviledge of being ignored we get upset. When we perceive that the only time anyone bothers to make contact with us is when its time to re-elect officers and not when something that directly affects us as importantly as a contract, being upset becomes outright anger. Make no bones about it, the IBT works for us, we do not work for the IBT! It is crap like this that Right-to-Work state movements gain popularity and that's sad.

    Just my 2 cents
  7. East coast navy

    East coast navy Veteran

    I agree. They can get a a little crazy but thats why they are there. Companies like ups are machines. They will chew you up and spit you out. Also they can help us when are union is week which it is. If they where not there things would be worse the same if unions didn't exist. We are going to have to take the good on all of this. It's all we got. I all was say be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
  8. Inthegame

    Inthegame Well-Known Member

    How are the local Sec Tres's dropping the ball?
  9. derf3733

    derf3733 Member

    It's been said before, that the TDU shouldn't even exist. But the actions by current and former IBT officials make such a group a necessity and that is a true shame. Most of us would agree UPS employees need to union to protect us from the from our employer who's actions are not always favorable.

    But within the last 2 contracts with the "brown outs" and "concessions in parts of the country" Employees are coming to the conclusion we need a Union to protect us from both UPS and the IBT.

    Granted all 3 parties have an agenda, but the clear winner in this contract has been the TDU.

    Information becomes knowledge, and knowledge becomes power. The only party providing us with information (though not always 100% accurate) has been the TDU. I can only imagine their donations and membership have gone through the roof in the past 7 months.
  10. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    i'd have more respect for tdu if they tried to be fair-minded.
  11. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    A TDU thread and nobody called me? Wtf! Lol
  12. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    Does anyone notice the articles of TDU as of late? Notice how it's always,"Join now at a discount!" They are driven by money. Read TDU's rules to propaganda, then read one of their articles, then read TDU's rules to propaganda again. If you need them, here they are:

    Name calling: This techniques consists of attaching a negative label to a person or a thing. People engage in this type of behavior when they are trying to avoid supporting their own opinion with facts. Rather than explain what they believe in, they prefer to try to tear their opponent down.

    Glittering Generalities: This technique uses important-sounding "glad words" that have little or no real meaning. These words are used in general statements that cannot be proved or disproved. Words like "good," "honest," "fair," and "best" are examples of "glad" words.

    Transfer: In this technique, an attempt is made to transfer the prestige of a positive symbol to a person or an idea. For example, using the American flag as a backdrop for a political event makes the implication that the event is patriotic in the best interest of the U.S.

    False Analogy: In this technique, two things that may or may not really be similar are portrayed as being similar. When examining the comparison, you must ask yourself how similar the items are. In most false analogies, there is simply not enough evidence available to support the comparison.

    Testimonial: This technique is easy to understand. It is when "big name" personalities are used to endorse a product. Whenever you see someone famous endorsing a product, ask yourself how much that person knows about the product, and what he or she stands to gain by promoting it.

    Plain Folks: This technique uses a folksy approach to convince us to support someone or something. These ads depict people with ordinary looks doing ordinary activities.

    Card Stacking: This term comes from stacking a deck of cards in your favor. Card stacking is used to slant a message. Key words or unfavorable statistics may be omitted in an ad or commercial, leading to a series of half-truths. Keep in mind that an advertiser is under no obligation "to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

    Bandwagon: The "bandwagon" approach encourages you to think that because everyone else is doing something, you should do it too, or you'll be left out. The technique embodies a "keeping up with the Joneses" philosophy.

    Either/or fallacy: This technique is also called "black-and-white thinking" because only two choices are given. You are either for something or against it; there is no middle ground or shades of gray. It is used to polarize issues, and negates all attempts to find a common ground.

    Faulty Cause and Effect: This technique suggests that because B follows A, A must cause B. Remember, just because two events or two sets of data are related does not necessarily mean that one caused the other to happen. It is important to evaluate data carefully before jumping to a wrong conclusion.
  13. HubBub

    HubBub Active Member

    The amount of defamation thrown out by TDU supporters is what gets me. And the self-righteousness and sense of superiority. And the foot stamping tantrums they throw. And the inherent divisiveness of "TDU". It's too bad, a lot of TDU'ers seem like smart motivated people, they could do a lot if they worked to build up the union instead of tearing down the leadership (and the majority that voted for them).
  14. sortaisle

    sortaisle Livin the cardboard dream

    It's your local Sec Tres because the National Agreement has passed. It's your locals job to figure out what needs to be changed in your local rider and addendum to get changed. The National has little to do with it until all the locals that got voted down gives them the changes necessary to negotiate. Do you really think Hoffa and hall are savvy on all local and riders? That would be like President Obama knowing what the city ordinances are all over America. So yeah, until the locals that got voted down figure out what their locals want, there's nothing for Hoffa and hall to do.
  15. Skooney

    Skooney Member

    I'm not a TDU supporter, but clearly, the IBT and it's members are not even close to reality in terms of a contract that is for everyone.
    Lasted edited by : Jul 28, 2013
  16. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    While im not a TDU supporter, I dont find their news articles and ranting to be completely off basis.

    While they seem to be very speculative and controversial, so are the teamsters that are supposedly representing us. Do you remember the mail flyer we recieved from the teamsters just before the ballots? That was supposedly a "summary" of what we were to be voting on, it was complete propaganda, neglecting to inform of us of any concessions we would be voting for. As far as im concerned, TDU is as extreme to one side as the teamsters are to the other, and none are truly representing us the way they should be.
  17. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    ..."There's no proof whatsoever that Hoffa/hall went into hiding"...

    Really? almost 4 weeks now, and Hoffa/hall havent gathered all the principle officers of the locals together to see why the members rejected the contract. No statements. No press releases. No "rallies" by K. hall.

    They have IN FACT gone into hiding "per se" by sheer absence. But why?

    Well, thats a simple answer. The talk about this contract was HIGHER than ever before in a negotiation year. The members were outraged all across this country and the more they talked, the less they liked this contract, unless of course if you were in either 407 or cleveland, the two crappiest places on earth.

    There, the contract was lollypops and gumdrops, but to the rest of america, this contract was and still is a "JOKE" and an insult to all the hard working teamsters everywhere.

    Hoffa/hall are merely using a tactic ( the passage of time) to deflate the conversation about the contract and the next time around, each local wont hit the 2/3 majority needed to count.

    The less people talk about something, the less interest there is about it. Pretty simple stuff.

    IN the begining of this year, hall was running around giving rah rah speeches to all states, and yet, where is he today? Has he done a "mic" check in the last 4 weeks? answer? NO.

    They "hope" we lose interest and simply vote yes on the same P.O.S. offer they presented to us the first time, if not, then they hope not enough people vote and they simply ratify the contract for us and we are stuck with it.

    Our local officers are not very concerned either with the members concerns.

    Depending on what local you are from, you still havent had a meeting to discuss this contract, yet people like 407 and Skunk will tell you that Hoffa/hall are doing everything possible for the members..

    People may not like TDU for whatever reason, but I guarantee you, that this contract fiasco is only going to supercharge TDU in the coming months for the members.

    People who have avoided TDU may just be angry enough with Hoffa/hall to give TDU another chance if they play their cards right and choose the right people.

    Time will tell how much damage Hoffa/hall have done to themselves.

    For us in the west, Both men are toast.

    Jr. dad is buried somewhere because of his politics and Jr is burying himself and wont need anyones help. He dug :censored2:, and his absence is the equivalent of pulling in the dirt behind him.


  18. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    It's not the Sec Tres job nor is it his job description. Its the negotiating committees. The supplements weren't voted down because of supplemental issues. It was healthcare. The hold up has little to do with the the supplements. If they turned around tomorrow and said, "You guys are going back to your UPS plan." and have a vote, do you think all supps would pass? Hell yes.
  19. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    When you see a contract that satisfies every member, get ready to find a new job because UPS will be broke.
  20. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    Did you read the August newsletter from the Teamsters yet?
    I got it in the mail this weekend and there is not a single mention of UPS in the whole thing.