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UPS Union Issues
who are you going to vote for and why
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<blockquote data-quote="The Other Side" data-source="post: 883300" data-attributes="member: 17969"><p>Once again you message is littered with half truths and the usual TDU mis information that runs rampant every election cycle. </p><p></p><p>First, The brass is the "brass" of the negotiating committee, and the 69 "others" are the teams that works on specific issues in the contract. Hoffa/Hall work on the NMA, and EACH LOCAL works on their OWN specific Package/Sort Rider, and each region (like the west) works on the supplementals and riders or moa's.</p><p></p><p>If you believe that Hoffa and his staff work on everything by themselves, then you clearly dont understand how it works. Second, you said this "R<strong>eason number one, Hoffa paid for all business agents and presidents of locals to be sent to Vegas to push this lousy contract down our throats"</strong>.</p><p></p><p>Where do you get this information? How do you come to this conclusion? </p><p></p><p>At the local level, the Eboard chooses to attend and selects members to go along. That could be 10 , that could be 25 people. THE LOCAL pays for all attendees, NOT HOFFA. You are out of your mind if you believe otherwise. The LOCAL pays for travel, lodging and a daily per diem.</p><p></p><p>Dont be an idiot or sound like one saying HOFFA pays everyone to attend. Thats ridiculous TDU nonsense.</p><p></p><p>As for the contract, of course they told us it was great, they believed it was. For the most part, it was a successful contract. Like I said, not everything in it I agreed with, but on the whole, as long as you do you job properly, you'd be ok.</p><p></p><p>The overtime language was modified to our deteriment afterwards, and that falls on hall and not Hoffa. hall trusted UPS when it came to overtime limitations and they broke their word on "their" agreement with the Teamsters. This will be addressed next round. There will be NO options this time.</p><p></p><p>As for central states, well, thats a whole other animal. Its a shame for those members and I have nothing to offer as an explanation for its collapse.</p><p></p><p>You said your local president promoted the contract and told you it was great, did you miss where I said all locals were saying this to their membership? In my local, I had a spirited argument on the floor with our officers who came and said the same thing, my argument was on many levels. I addressed technology which I felt was unaddressed and open to negative interpretation (article 6) I addressed excessive overtime which knowing the system, I knew that open door to future modification was going to hurt the membership, I addressed sleeper teams language which in our package rider was ultimately going to cost us runs, and it did.</p><p></p><p>These are all things that are to be blamed at the local level and not HOFFA. If the locals ( the 69 others you mention) confer with Hoffa and tell him that everything is cool, then Hoffa and his team accept the opinions of the negoitating committees. HOFFA doesnt tell them what to do.</p><p></p><p>Once its all done, all the locals have to be on the same page or they disagree and call for a vote down. Some locals did just that. The rest of the locals fell in line, but so did we.</p><p></p><p>YOU have to understand that the membership <strong>IS</strong> responsible for lack of knowledge, and a lesson should be learned. READ THE CONTRACT when it gets to your home, understand it, ask questions, seek a second opinion before you submit a YES vote.</p><p></p><p>The majority of UPS teamsters said YES and most of those didnt read the dam thing. Voter turnout was lousy and yet 100% of the membership want to complain about it. </p><p></p><p>Look , I think we are somewhat on the same playing field with this contract, but we have a different perspective about it.. I am able to view it from the inside out and you from the outside in.</p><p></p><p>When the contract was sent out for ratification, for 5 straight days, I sat in front of my hub with signs, a table, the contract and each article or section that I felt needed to be changed or improved. The members stopped to read or ask questions about it. UPS tried to stop me from doing so and even my local took a couple of shots at me for doing it. Then at the hall, I argued with them to no avail.</p><p></p><p>However, in my local we only had 1100 yes votes out of a potential 10000. Thats how weak the membership is when it comes to voting. The rest didnt bother to vote. Its the same story across the country.</p><p></p><p>Selections to the negotiating committees is political. Many locals went through changes after the last contract, and those with previous experience were left out of negotiations last time. I know for a fact that this time, the Teamsters are already taking steps to avoid making the same mistakes.</p><p></p><p>As long as the membership is not 100% involved, there will always be bad contracts. We have the voice to approve or disapprove any contract, the problem is however, NOBODY wants to strike, so they will settle for whatever is placed in front of them.</p><p></p><p>Its that easy.</p><p></p><p>Peace.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Other Side, post: 883300, member: 17969"] Once again you message is littered with half truths and the usual TDU mis information that runs rampant every election cycle. First, The brass is the "brass" of the negotiating committee, and the 69 "others" are the teams that works on specific issues in the contract. Hoffa/Hall work on the NMA, and EACH LOCAL works on their OWN specific Package/Sort Rider, and each region (like the west) works on the supplementals and riders or moa's. If you believe that Hoffa and his staff work on everything by themselves, then you clearly dont understand how it works. Second, you said this "R[B]eason number one, Hoffa paid for all business agents and presidents of locals to be sent to Vegas to push this lousy contract down our throats"[/B]. Where do you get this information? How do you come to this conclusion? At the local level, the Eboard chooses to attend and selects members to go along. That could be 10 , that could be 25 people. THE LOCAL pays for all attendees, NOT HOFFA. You are out of your mind if you believe otherwise. The LOCAL pays for travel, lodging and a daily per diem. Dont be an idiot or sound like one saying HOFFA pays everyone to attend. Thats ridiculous TDU nonsense. As for the contract, of course they told us it was great, they believed it was. For the most part, it was a successful contract. Like I said, not everything in it I agreed with, but on the whole, as long as you do you job properly, you'd be ok. The overtime language was modified to our deteriment afterwards, and that falls on hall and not Hoffa. hall trusted UPS when it came to overtime limitations and they broke their word on "their" agreement with the Teamsters. This will be addressed next round. There will be NO options this time. As for central states, well, thats a whole other animal. Its a shame for those members and I have nothing to offer as an explanation for its collapse. You said your local president promoted the contract and told you it was great, did you miss where I said all locals were saying this to their membership? In my local, I had a spirited argument on the floor with our officers who came and said the same thing, my argument was on many levels. I addressed technology which I felt was unaddressed and open to negative interpretation (article 6) I addressed excessive overtime which knowing the system, I knew that open door to future modification was going to hurt the membership, I addressed sleeper teams language which in our package rider was ultimately going to cost us runs, and it did. These are all things that are to be blamed at the local level and not HOFFA. If the locals ( the 69 others you mention) confer with Hoffa and tell him that everything is cool, then Hoffa and his team accept the opinions of the negoitating committees. HOFFA doesnt tell them what to do. Once its all done, all the locals have to be on the same page or they disagree and call for a vote down. Some locals did just that. The rest of the locals fell in line, but so did we. YOU have to understand that the membership [B]IS[/B] responsible for lack of knowledge, and a lesson should be learned. READ THE CONTRACT when it gets to your home, understand it, ask questions, seek a second opinion before you submit a YES vote. The majority of UPS teamsters said YES and most of those didnt read the dam thing. Voter turnout was lousy and yet 100% of the membership want to complain about it. Look , I think we are somewhat on the same playing field with this contract, but we have a different perspective about it.. I am able to view it from the inside out and you from the outside in. When the contract was sent out for ratification, for 5 straight days, I sat in front of my hub with signs, a table, the contract and each article or section that I felt needed to be changed or improved. The members stopped to read or ask questions about it. UPS tried to stop me from doing so and even my local took a couple of shots at me for doing it. Then at the hall, I argued with them to no avail. However, in my local we only had 1100 yes votes out of a potential 10000. Thats how weak the membership is when it comes to voting. The rest didnt bother to vote. Its the same story across the country. Selections to the negotiating committees is political. Many locals went through changes after the last contract, and those with previous experience were left out of negotiations last time. I know for a fact that this time, the Teamsters are already taking steps to avoid making the same mistakes. As long as the membership is not 100% involved, there will always be bad contracts. We have the voice to approve or disapprove any contract, the problem is however, NOBODY wants to strike, so they will settle for whatever is placed in front of them. Its that easy. Peace. [/QUOTE]
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