Who's Stupid Idea Was "Stops Per Car"?

[browniehound]

One other quick point and it has to do with penny wise and pound foolish. Things like start car method being 2 or 3 seconds or moving packages into the 18 inch selection area. They are all great in theory but it becomes wasted when drivers spend 30 minutes driving and then swapping work.

My ignorant theory: leave it alone and let the methods do its purpose. Focus on this for every driver. So what if someone is over 11 hours? Keep the 2 others you were going to send and waste fuel and time at their 8.6 plan. Why take the efficiency out of their routes? Its the one thing UPS has going for them (built-in efficeincy and stop density) and they still tinker with it. WHY?

Again, leave it alone and let each driver finish the route. Don't be sending 2 guys from another town just to keep him under 9.5.

My argument excludes scenarios in which a driver is going to miss a pick up or service commitments, obviously...

 

[soberups]

Fearful management people make stupid decisions. Confident management people make smart ones.

Fearful management people are scared of losing their jobs, so they spoon-feed their superiors whichever number happens to be the current flavor of the week. Confident management people focus on results and they run the business properly, even when doing so fails to produce that particular number.

Fearful management people service the metric. Confident management people service the customer.


Are we a fear-based company, or a confidence-based company?

 

[tieguy]

your example of you sitting on the floor with your fingers in your ear going waaa waaa is one that I do not have any problems visualizing you doing.

 

[brownmonster]

your example of you sitting on the floor with your fingers in your ear going waaa waaa is one that I do not have any problems visualizing you doing.

This conversation is about stops per car. No need for a feeder mgr to chime in.

 

[pretzel_man]

Stops per car is an old and important concept. I will agree that ofen it is not properly executed.

Its basically very simple. Centers have a target stops per car and that is divided into the forecast to determine the number of drivers needed.

For instance, if the forecast was for 3900 stops for a center and the target stops per car was 130, then the center needs 30 drivers. If the actual stops for the center come it at 3770 (130 less than forecast) the center needs 29 drivers. If the actual stops come in at 4030, 31 drivers are needed.

Why is this needed and why the focus? When stops come in lower (3770 for example) and drivers are not cut, the stops per car drop from 130 to about 125. In practice, that reduction in stops does not usually equate to a reduction in paid hours. Unfortunately, this is true.....

So, as I said this is often poorly executed. The problem is not the stops per car target, it is putting out a bad dispatch. I see too many centers when trying to break up a route to go from 30 drivers to 29 drivers, do a very poor job. They create a pocket dispatch, excess miles, excess hours, and force driver meets.

By the way, SPC is only one metric. Miles is another important one. Dispatch is rated and measured by the number of miles run in a center. Making SPC and missing miles is also bad. There is a mileage index that each operation is measured on. It is equally as important (or more so) than SPC.

Its no secret that the goal is do look for ways to reduce miles and replace those miles with stops (or paid day reduction).

P-Man

 

[soberups]

your example of you sitting on the floor with your fingers in your ear going waaa waaa is one that I do not have any problems visualizing you doing.

I think you are in the wrong thread.

Nice to hear from you, though!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Fearful management people make stupid decisions. Confident management people make smart ones.

Fearful management people are scared of losing their jobs, so they spoon-feed their superiors whichever number happens to be the current flavor of the week. Confident management people focus on results and they run the business properly, even when doing so fails to produce that particular number.

Fearful management people service the metric. Confident management people service the customer.


Are we a fear-based company, or a confidence-based company?

I was hoping you'd chime in on this one. As usual you are right on and as usual I can't up your reputation without "spreading it around" first. Lame. Anyway......Fear is the correct word but we really should include STUPIDITY to the equation.

Stops per car is an old and important concept. I will agree that ofen it is not properly executed.

Its basically very simple. Centers have a target stops per car and that is divided into the forecast to determine the number of drivers needed.

For instance, if the forecast was for 3900 stops for a center and the target stops per car was 130, then the center needs 30 drivers. If the actual stops for the center come it at 3770 (130 less than forecast) the center needs 29 drivers. If the actual stops come in at 4030, 31 drivers are needed.

Why is this needed and why the focus? When stops come in lower (3770 for example) and drivers are not cut, the stops per car drop from 130 to about 125. In practice, that reduction in stops does not usually equate to a reduction in paid hours. Unfortunately, this is true.....

So, as I said this is often poorly executed. The problem is not the stops per car target, it is putting out a bad dispatch. I see too many centers when trying to break up a route to go from 30 drivers to 29 drivers, do a very poor job. They create a pocket dispatch, excess miles, excess hours, and force driver meets.

By the way, SPC is only one metric. Miles is another important one. Dispatch is rated and measured by the number of miles run in a center. Making SPC and missing miles is also bad. There is a mileage index that each operation is measured on. It is equally as important (or more so) than SPC.

Its no secret that the goal is do look for ways to reduce miles and replace those miles with stops (or paid day reduction).

P-Man

Come on man! Stops per car is "important"? Get real! The fact that there is even a formula for coming up with a stops per car metric should be the indicator that it is a bad idea. If you have rural routes in your center then its pretty much guaranteed that the stops per car metric is shot to hell. You can spend all day explaining how the formula comes up with the magic number for the day but it only take a second to see that it doesn't accomplish anything.

 

[pretzel_man]

Come on man! Stops per car is "important"? Get real! The fact that there is even a formula for coming up with a stops per car metric should be the indicator that it is a bad idea. If you have rural routes in your center then its pretty much guaranteed that the stops per car metric is shot to hell. You can spend all day explaining how the formula comes up with the magic number for the day but it only take a second to see that it doesn't accomplish anything.

I explained how it works and why. You can do what you like with that information. I've seen it work well in many, many, centers. I've seen it fail when there is a poor dispatch.

So which part do you disagree with? Do you think that as stops drop, the number of drivers should not? SPC is a target. Its one of many metrics.

Again, like it or not, its how the process works.

P-Man

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I explained how it works and why. You can do what you like with that information. I've seen it work well in many, many, centers. I've seen it fail when there is a poor dispatch.

It DOESN"T work! Good dispatch or not. Drivers working peak hours throughout the year, missed pieces, angry customers, increased accidents and injuries due to fatigue, need I say more?

So which part do you disagree with? Do you think that as stops drop, the number of drivers should not? SPC is a target. Its one of many metrics.

Again, like it or not, its how the process works.

P-Man

If there isn't enough work for a driver to get at least an 8 hour dispatch then work should be moved from a route that has more than enough. That makes sense. But cutting a full route (or more) to just to satisfy a silly metric that only leads to drivers working peak hours, missed pieces, angry customers, and the others I mentioned above. Its rather obvious to understand. If the bean counters would wake up and join the real world they could see this.

 

[hellfire]

i see flawed logic... say i have farmlands,, each land owner has 200 acres,,, the guy over there has a super tight commercial route,, 30 plus a hour,, how do you compare the 2 ? Both work just as hard but one spends hours driving...... i dont see the blanket logic working

 

[browniehound]

P-man, such a well written, lucid explination of the stops per car goal. Par for the course for you and I want to thank you again for the insight.

My questionnow becomes: does stops per car make us money? If the number says we should run 29 does it work? Or does running 30 make us more profitable because of less service failures and less overtime pay?

I ask this because everytime they chop a route in my center it ends in disaster. 5 drivers over 11, missed pieces, missed pickups and simply just frustration all around. What's the verdict P-man?

Why not just let 6 drivers come in at 8 hours instead of 5 at 11 hours with all the service failures? I'm just asking here...

 

[hellfire]

I explained how it works and why. You can do what you like with that information. I've seen it work well in many, many, centers. I've seen it fail when there is a poor dispatch.

So which part do you disagree with? Do you think that as stops drop, the number of drivers should not? SPC is a target. Its one of many metrics.

Again, like it or not, its how the process works.

P-Man

also,, you blame poor dispatch,, whats the normal training on a on road going into dispatch?

 

[hellfire]

ha! check out that rep power!!!! i will see you all IN HELL

 

[over9five]

ha! check out that rep power!!!! i will see you all IN HELL

As long as it isn't also on your body somewhere!

 

[Catatonic]

Stops per car is an old and important concept. I will agree that often it is not properly executed.

Its basically very simple. Centers have a target stops per car and that is divided into the forecast to determine the number of drivers needed.

As to whose idea was Stops Per Car? I would guess it was maybe Jim Casey and if not him, then George Smith and probably somewhere in the 50's.

When I first saw this thread's title ... I did not take it seriously. And then I realized that what was being complained about was the increase in Stops Per Car (or at least I thought I did). Now I'm not too sure what anyone or everyone is complaining about except that almost everyone feels the dispatch is too high.

To P-Mans point - Stops per Car was used back in the 70's as the basis for planning the number of drivers in a center and it had been around "forever" then. I remember the tedious and boring process of planning out a whole year with pen and paper and adding and cutting drivers as volume increased and decreased. The splits were usually done in the morning by the preload. The decision was the center manager's or lead supe whether to add or cut a route.

As an aside, I remember when I went into management, I took a pay cut because I averaged over 54 hours a week. It took almost 3 years to get back to what I was making as a driver. So dispatch was not that great back then either.

 

[soberups]

Its OK to have business goals, and for those goals to be expressed in the form of metrics.

Its not OK when adherence to the metric causes more problems than it purports to solve.

Blind, unthinking obedience is not the key to running a successful business. When we blindly and unthinkingly continue to produce a metric...even at the expense of safety, good business practices and adherence to the labor agreement....we are not doing right by our customers or our shareholders or our people.

When a center (mine) is dispatching an average paid day in excess of 10 hours....and when that center is paying out $5,000 per week in over 9.5 grievance settlements...and when a center is having its drivers work up to 14 hours per day and they are running out of DOT hours in September.....THEN THE ***** STOPS-PER-CAR METRIC IS WRONG AND SOMEBODY IN ATLANTA NEEDS TO PULL HIS HEAD OUT OF HIS BUTT AND ADJUST THE METRIC instead of continuing to pretend that the metric is accurate and blaming "poor dispatching" for the problem.

 

[Anonymous 10]

So, we've had the stops per car metric for a little while now but its really getting out of hand. I was wondering exactly who it was that came up with the idea. They should be given an award for worst idea EVER! If they insist that we continue to have centers with two thirds of their drivers over 9.5 AND 10.5 then they should at least set forth realistic goals per center. Its idiotic to think that a center with 40 routes (10 of which are rural routes that average less than 90 stops) can satisfy a goal of 133 stops per car without cutting too many routes and having excessive over 9.5s. Who is responsible for this? Were they ever a driver? Did they just get a little crazy when they learned how to use a spreadsheet? What college taught them this nonsense? I'm just curious.

Scott Davis

 

[Brown to Brown]

Think about it...it can't be exact. They want to push us. To win the game, EVERYONE HAS TO TAKE THEIR FRIGGIN' LUNCH!!! Some 20 and 30 year drivers still work before start time still. Really getting old.

 

[bigbrownhen]

I have stated before, mutual respect on both sides of the fence is needed here. Respect that management's job is to run the buisness and make a profit. Therefore, they should respect that the hourly's job is to be the front man with the customers, basicly customer service. Customer service is to maintain the customer base that we have while trying to add more. Customers are not happy getting business deliveries at 3pm or later, or resididential customers getting doorbells rung at 8pm. They may not say anything, but the thought is there, and when they are given a choice, they will choose another carrier eventually. In a nut shell, GET THE BIG PICTURE, without customers, the over 9.5 or stops per car aren't gonna matter to anyone.

 

[OVERBOARD]

Why is this needed and why the focus? When stops come in lower (3770 for example) and drivers are not cut, the stops per car drop from 130 to about 125. In practice, that reduction in stops does not usually equate to a reduction in paid hours. Unfortunately, this is true.....

I wish this part wasn’t true but it is. I had a center manager 10 yrs ago that would say" light dispatch today don’t screw me over", but of course he got screw over. Because all the lunch runners would take a lunch that day and he learned it does pay. I know that when I have a good dispatch I get the job done and when I don’t "I'm like a Wheelbarrow the more you load it up, the slower it goes".