Why collective bargaining?

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
Hey if the Republicans have a strong candidate to run against Hillary Clinton I will consider voting Republican.

Obama is VERY far from perfect but my home value has gone up,401k and Roth are at record highs,and My income gets higher every year.

But obviously many Americans are still recovering from the great recession so I feel fortunate to work for a company like UPS.

Although i will agree with you that these issues like house prices prices and 401k have gone up. I dont think that it is a good reference point for a good presidency. Because by that definition, Bush jr would be twice the president as Obama as house prices and 401k rose A LOT more during his presidency.
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
Although i will agree with you that these issues like house prices prices and 401k have gone up. I dont think that it is a good reference point for a good presidency. Because by that definition, Bush jr would be twice the president as Obama as house prices and 401k rose A LOT more during his presidency.

Really? Under the Bush Jr. presidency we experienced a financial meltdown and taxpayer bailout on Wallstreet and the housing market collapsed and Obama was handed a GREAT RECESSION that started during the Bush Jr. Presidency.:biggrin:

Either way I am now personally better off and so are all UPSERS since Obama took office so he gets some credit. NOT ALL.

I am sure if our 401ks and home values and incomes were lower than of course Obama would be the blame for that?
 

Ron Carey lives on

Well-Known Member
You want me to vote for a republican, find me one that severs his ties to the koch bros and big business, supports workers the right way. The national right to work agenda will never get my vote. Find me a republican that has the b-lls to buck his party and support collective bargaining of course I would vote for him

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Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Really? Under the Bush Jr. presidency we experienced a financial meltdown and taxpayer bailout on Wallstreet and the housing market collapsed and Obama was handed a GREAT RECESSION that started during the Bush Jr. Presidency.:biggrin:

Either way I am now personally better off and so are all UPSERS since Obama took office so he gets some credit. NOT ALL.

I am sure if our 401ks and home values and incomes were lower than of course Obama would be the blame for that?

Actually....none of the variables that led to the recession were the fault of Bush Jr. It was mainly the result of liberal mortgage lending policies that were started by liberals in Congress when democrats were in control. And also the liberal media scaring the general public (which is otherwise ignorant) into thinking their was a recession far before there actually was one (by the definition of a recession) so there would actually be a recession leading up to an election so ignoramuses would vote democrat. It worked like a charm.
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
Actually....none of the variables that led to the recession were the fault of Bush Jr. It was mainly the result of liberal mortgage lending policies that were started by liberals in Congress when democrats were in control. And also the liberal media scaring the general public (which is otherwise ignorant) into thinking their was a recession far before there actually was one (by the definition of a recession) so there would actually be a recession leading up to an election so ignoramuses would vote democrat. It worked like a charm.

Sure dude. The great recession was caused by a liberal media scare?:laughing2: MATH DOES NOT LIE.
We have been in a economic recovery for years now?

Our problems are LOW WAGES FOR THE AVG. AMERICAN.

The markets crashed? Housing values crashed? The banks crashed? THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. :wink2:

There is blame to go around for everyone. Everybody got greedy during the housing crisis.
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
Actually....none of the variables that led to the recession were the fault of Bush Jr. It was mainly the result of liberal mortgage lending policies that were started by liberals in Congress when democrats were in control. And also the liberal media scaring the general public (which is otherwise ignorant) into thinking their was a recession far before there actually was one (by the definition of a recession) so there would actually be a recession leading up to an election so ignoramuses would vote democrat. It worked like a charm.

If the Republicans run a strong candidate for President then they will win.

They tried to buy the last election and it didn't work.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Sure dude. The great recession was caused by a liberal media scare?:laughing2: MATH DOES NOT LIE.
We have been in a economic recovery for years now?

Our problems are LOW WAGES FOR THE AVG. AMERICAN.

The markets crashed? Housing values crashed? The banks crashed? THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. :wink2:

There is blame to go around for everyone. Everybody got greedy during the housing crisis.

The media is more responsible for the recession than anything. By definition a recession is a negative GDP for six months in a row. The media started warning of a recession as early as two months in then started saying that we were in one three months in. They caused the recession by scaring the general public into thinking there was one when, by definition, we still had another six months to go before it was legitimate. The general public started rethinking their spending habits and started spending less and that caused the recession. It was nothing more than a self-fulfilling prophecy by the liberal media leading up to an election. Throw in bad mortgage loans, and a bunch of other factors that by themselves wouldn't have caused that recession but added fuel to the fire, and we had ourselves a mess.
 

MC4YOU2

Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
No one wants it to be their fault, but there is plenty of fault on any side you care to point at and right up the middle too.
Deregulation, bad loans, risky bonds, bailouts and dishonesty.
The list below is from factcheck.org
So who is to blame? There’s plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn’t fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn’t do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility … with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here’s a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:
The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
No one wants it to be their fault, but there is plenty of fault on any side you care to point at and right up the middle too.
Deregulation, bad loans, risky bonds, bailouts and dishonesty.
The list below is from factcheck.org
So who is to blame? There’s plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn’t fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn’t do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility … with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here’s a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:
The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

Globalization and the outsourcing of American jobs was and STILL is a huge factor in the fall of the housing market. THE RACE TO THE BOTTUM. OUR ECONOMIC DOWNWARD SPIRAL.

Until the middle-class and working poor get a substantial raise housing will never completely recover.

And now college grads have huge student loan debt and low wages that prevent them from buying a home.
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
The media is more responsible for the recession than anything. By definition a recession is a negative GDP for six months in a row. The media started warning of a recession as early as two months in then started saying that we were in one three months in. They caused the recession by scaring the general public into thinking there was one when, by definition, we still had another six months to go before it was legitimate. The general public started rethinking their spending habits and started spending less and that caused the recession. It was nothing more than a self-fulfilling prophecy by the liberal media leading up to an election. Throw in bad mortgage loans, and a bunch of other factors that by themselves wouldn't have caused that recession but added fuel to the fire, and we had ourselves a mess.

The general public stopped spending when their 401k values crashed.

I had coworkers who freaked and moved all their money out of stocks and into cash and bonds.

And actually if the media has knowledge of a legitimate recession that is going to happen in 6 months why wouldn't they report it?

So Fox news and Rush Limbaugh didn't report and ignored a major recession on the horizon just so the Republicans would win the Presidency? I don't know?
 

MC4YOU2

Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
When the media, or anyone really, sits on a story that they have factual information of, we call that a cover up. You just can't make everyone happy. I seem to remember hearing things like "economists claim we may be, might be or likely are heading into a recession, slowdown, depression."
 

oldngray

nowhere special
When the media, or anyone really, sits on a story that they have factual information of, we call that a cover up. You just can't make everyone happy. I seem to remember hearing things like "economists claim we may be, might be or likely are heading into a recession, slowdown, depression."

Economists predictions are about as accurate as flipping a coin. Most investors use their BS filters on those reports. What makes a difference is the coverage and slant the media gives to those predictions.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
The general public stopped spending when their 401k values crashed.

I had coworkers who freaked and moved all their money out of stocks and into cash and bonds.

And actually if the media has knowledge of a legitimate recession that is going to happen in 6 months why wouldn't they report it?

So Fox news and Rush Limbaugh didn't report and ignored a major recession on the horizon just so the Republicans would win the Presidency? I don't know?

Why did you single out Rush Limbaugh and Fox news? Why didn't you also mention MSNBC or CNN or even CNBC?
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
Why did you single out Rush Limbaugh and Fox news? Why didn't you also mention MSNBC or CNN or even CNBC?

Because he said the liberal media caused the great recession by telling the general public about the great recession so they would vote Democrat?

So I am just wondering if the rightwing media withheld the knowledge of a major recession about to happen so the general public would vote Republican?

I don't buy into this media conspiracy.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
Because he said the liberal media caused the great recession by telling the general public about the great recession so they would vote Democrat?

So I am just wondering if the rightwing media withheld the knowledge of a major recession about to happen so the general public would vote Republican?

I don't buy into this media conspiracy.

I would only go as far to say that media (from both left and right) can make a situation worse by creating a frenzy with "irrational exuberance" or induce a selling off panic.
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
Really? Under the Bush Jr. presidency we experienced a financial meltdown and taxpayer bailout on Wallstreet and the housing market collapsed and Obama was handed a GREAT RECESSION that started during the Bush Jr. Presidency.:biggrin:

Either way I am now personally better off and so are all UPSERS since Obama took office so he gets some credit. NOT ALL.

I am sure if our 401ks and home values and incomes were lower than of course Obama would be the blame for that?

According to wikipedia's stats. Average house price at the beginning of bush jr was $210k and at the end of his presidency, even with the crash, it was about $270k. I trust the numbers more than random opinions.

With that said, im not saying bush jr was a great President. Im just saying that house prices and 401k arent a good basis for evaluating a presidency
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
I just don't see how any union member could support RTW, its a oxymoron

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Because not everyone thinks alike! It takes a real arrogant person to believe that everyone should accept his/her opinions as gospel.

truth is... this country is founded on democracy. So if RTW is what the majority of people in the united states want, why shouldnt it become policy? Unless of course you dont believe in democracy.
 

purplesky

Well-Known Member
According to wikipedia's stats. Average house price at the beginning of bush jr was $210k and at the end of his presidency, even with the crash, it was about $270k. I trust the numbers more than random opinions.

With that said, im not saying bush jr was a great President. Im just saying that house prices and 401k arent a good basis for evaluating a presidency

The economy under any 2 term Presidency is always a big factor in evaluating a Presidency.

The fact remains that the economy tanked by the end of the Bush Jr.. Presidency.

The great recession was handed to Obama on day 1 of his Presidency so it doesn't really matter what the house values were estimated to be on Bush juniors last day because the Recession was already happening.

So now under Obama we have a growing economy and housing is heading in positive territory and so are 401ks. CONSIDERING WHAT 8 YEARS OF BUSH JR. DID TO THE AMERICAN ECONOMY THATS NOT SAYING MUCH.

These are real numbers and events. Not random opinions.

I AM NOT SAYING OBAMA IS A GREAT PRESIDENT. BUT ITS DEFINITELY LOOKING LIKE OBAMA WILL BE HANDING THE NEXT PRESIDENT A MUCH STRONGER ECONOMY THAN THE ECONOMY BUSH HANDED HIM.
 
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