Will ask ----Must tell !!!

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by island1fox, May 31, 2010.

  1. island1fox

    island1fox Well-Known Member

    Why do Gays insist on changing Bill Clinton's don't ask -don't tell ?
    Wheter you are straight or gay or bi ---a soldier is a soldier.
    Sounds like this is just political non-sense that will only cause problems.:wink2:
    What say you ???
     
  2. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    The people that support this are incapable of actually considering the consequences.
     
  3. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I spent 8 years in the Air Force with the first two in the dorm as I was single at the time. To put it mildly, there are some military personnel with less than open minds, which is why this policy should be left alone. Have you ever seen the movie "A Few Good Men"? I think you would see a few Code Red's if this policy where changed.
     
  4. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    Great movie. Jack Nicholson is excellent in his role (as he usually is) as Col. Jessup.
     
  5. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Maybe don't ask don't tell has lost its need. I'm not sure.

    When I was in; a platoon sargent once offered a three day pass to a soldior who correctly answered that he would beat the **** out any gays he found in the unit.

    todays kids are slowly becoming less judgemental and more forgiving. Not only with gays but also with other races.

    With that said the need for don't ask dont tell may still be there if only to discourage open conversations about ones sexuality. there is a reason we strip their civilian clothes and shave their heads. We want them to lose their individuality and become members of a fighting team. At ups we we as management are taught to learn to appreciate diversity and the individuals differences. In the military we teach to eliminate the differences to form a cohesive fighting force. The problem with this issue is civilians will decide whats best for the military based on a civilan belief system.
     
  6. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    I just don't see a problem. Young people today care a lot less about this stuff, and they are the ones joining the military. For all the fuss that's being made about it, once the policy is changed it will be pretty much a non-issue.
     
  7. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I still think it best that they leave this policy alone.
     
  8. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    I agree, leave it be. Not because it is becoming archaic but simply because it's no one elses business. Tie is right, todays world is becoming more tolerant and that is moving into the military as well but there are still prejudices.
     
  9. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Why? Under the current policy gays can be discharged just for being honest about who they are. Why is that needed?
     
  10. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    Why is what needed? The policy, don't ask - don't tell? It shouldn't be needed. It's discrimination. Heaven forbid our government (or in this case our military) should violate it's own laws, but it does. Your statement, if you meant it the way you wrote it, is exactly why it is needed.
     
  11. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying that under the current policy (don't ask don't tell), gays can be discharged if the reveal to anyone that they are gay. I think that's wrong, I don't think it's needed anymore (if in fact it ever was) and I think we should get rid of that policy and allow gays to serve openly. That's what I'm saying.
     
  12. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    Once its OK to announce your gay in the Military there will be one less excuse to get discharged if you dont want to go to war...remember Klinger from MASH.
     
  13. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    I did misunderstand what you were getting at. I also agree with you but I also believe, that at this point in time, there are still tooo many prejudices to allow this policy to be rescinded. In a few more years, maybe.
     
  14. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Tie made an excellent point--this is a military policy and any changes to this should be initiated by the military, not by a civilian authority. Attitudes have changed and young people today are more tolerant but the fact remains that there are still and will always be those who are less than tolerant.

    I served from 1981-89. Would it have made a difference to me if the guy helping me refuel a plane was gay or not? No but I did have some fellow airmen to whom it would have made a huge difference.

    In my mind the policy exists for the safety of the person in question. Yes, we are asking that person to be less than honest with himself, but they knew what they were getting in to when they raised their right hands.

    Leave the policy alone.
     
  15. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Gay or not, anyone brave enough to serve in our volunteer armed forces should be allowed to do so. Todays kids don't care about that, and God Bless them.
     
  16. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Actually the military doesn't get to decide who is allowed to serve and who isn't. Civilian authority has always determined that.
    The military didn't desegregate on their own either, and they were in no hurry to do it. They were ordered to do so by President Truman in 1948. In this country civilians have control of the military and that's a good thing.
    There will always be people who are prejudiced, but I have yet to see a decent argument as to why we should have government policies that cater to them. The idea that we are requiring any gay people who want to serve their country to live a lie "for their own safety" is self evidently ridiculous, and it actually has nothing to do with why the policy was put in place.

    +1
    Like I said earlier, the policy is going to be changed regardless of what we think and it's just not going to be any big deal to the people serving now. Really.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2010
  17. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Public opinion may have swayed, but you change the policy you are just asking for major problems. Personally, I dont care what your sexuality is. But we dont need to hear about it openly (gay or straight). Dont ask dont tell doesnt keep homosexuals from serving. To me it simply says you go to serve and leave sexuality out of it. I dont know about the military in general, but I was in a light infantry unit. With all of the controversay and politics this would bring about would have made for major disruption of the company's unity. You wanna stand by me and fight, be loyal and serve and you'll have a friend for life.. try forcing political correctness down the military's throat and you'll take away both loyalty and unity
     
  18. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    If we really want to leave sexuality out of it, then we shouldn't have a policy that addresses people's sexuality right? Right now we have a policy that explicitly treats people differently based on their sexuality. IE, the policy that is in place is making an issue out of it. Get rid of the policy, and you get rid of the issue. Everyone gets treated the same.
     
  19. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    you bring up a good point Jones... but remember how this whole crap started to begin with.... all politics.....
    Its not the average Joe you have to worry about.... it's the political pressure by activist groups that get involved.... the military has no time for this crap. They have a job to do and need to be able to do it....

    I actually like the fact of dont ask dont tell.... it allows anyone that wants to serve to be able to.... now if you want to argue the point of once someone who has tried to live a quiet life and gets discovered, then I think you have a good arguement. I know that in our unit, if you had any kind of indiscretion that disrupted the task at hand, then there was a problem. You bring in the political BS that gay rights groups will do in the name of their cause it magnifies....

    I think it was dumb the way the whole thing came about to begin with, but I think it works after the fact for the most part.. You show you character by showing if you are willing to put your life on the line side by side with others. It's not about the politics which is exactly what all this has been about
     
  20. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    If I were in the military and announced that I was heterosexual, would I get kicked out?