With Telematics, is this the end of the career UPS driver???

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by caharrell5, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. MenInBrown

    MenInBrown Active Member

    It seems to me that with telematics and all of the other nit picky bs, that high turnover is where UPS wants to be...END the career UPS driver, they make too much money!!! and remember your dumb*** signed the contract. Will the union fight this telematics??? My SUP did a safety ride with me the other day and told me that with our last contract UPS was expecting a lot of drivers to retire, but that didnt happen now they are :censored2: off and hate the drivers! Saying now buy OCT everyone in our building has to be running scrath or face disciplinary action based on performance. Why doesnt the union invest on doing our own time allowance study to be held by?:surprised:
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  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    Johnson had Kennedy assassinated.
  3. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    There are aliens being disected at Area 51.
  4. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    Just learn the methods and follow them. If your a dirty driver clean it up you live in a glass house now. Get used to it and learn to love and embrace it. They want professional drivers and pay good for it. I love telematics because it makes me look like a superstar with all the zeros next to my name. Two years later and all the fuss was just over hype.
  5. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    You have 2 goals as a driver.

    A. Never do anything that results in talking to a Supe.

    B. Never do anything that requires involving The Union.

    Become the kind of driver that if you make a mistake the Supe feels bad for you. I'm looking forward to Telematics for the entertainment factor.
  6. Packmule

    Packmule Well-Known Member

    They were doing the same thing in our building on performance. Someone had to actually receive their first warning letter before the union would do anything. Meanwhile, you had drivers out there overdriving the hell out of speed limits to stay employed. Finally, got a sup to admit the union did terminate the company's garbage, but it is rediculous that the union didn't take this out proactively, and nationally.
  7. upserr1

    upserr1 New Member

    We were one the first to have telematics means nothing as long as you follow methods everyday is different as long as your not stealing time you have nothing to worry about the union will back you up all telematics is is harassment in disgiuse
  8. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    1. The company has always hated its drivers.

    2. Disciplinary action based upon performance has always been one of management's fantasies. Telematics will not make that fantasy come true. Your sup was probably just regurgitating a bunch of drivel that he was told in a meeting.

    3. It would be impossible, as well as pointless, for the union to do its own timestudies. There is nothing to be gained by debating with the company over irrelevant data that was never intended to be fair in the first place. "Overallowed" is nothing but a number on a piece of paper. It has no connection with reality, and Telematics will not change that fact one bit.
  9. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Clearly the two moderators on this thread missed the point of the OP and decided to make jokes rather than participate in a rational disscussion. Some others missed the OP's point altogether and a couple understood him.

    The OP isnt talking about doing things correctly, and advice to "do everything right" doesnt answer his question.

    What he is talking about is PRODUCTION and any discipline related to PRODUCTION based upon telematics and further, if the Union has any plans to fight it.

    First, telematics alone will not increase production nor will it make better drivers.

    Telematics has "SLOWED" drivers down in all cases. Doing the job by the book means leaving the "learned behaviors" weve learned for decades (bulkhead doors open, selt belts off, idling, double parking, parking on opposite side, speeding, parking in red zones, sheeting off area, pre-recording etc etc ) and practicing the proper methods on each and every stop.

    Telematics has its flaws and coupled with EDD and PAS, the combination is a recipe for disaster. The rate of misloads has increased with the implementation of PAS and EDD and service failures increase in each center.

    Those drivers considered to be "productive" drivers have gone from breaking standard to 1.5 hours in the hole with the implementation of telematics. Now two things are in play here, first, the company reducing allowances per stop per area and the driver having to follow every single rule of safe driving that had been ignored for years.

    Telematics and production dont mix, there are too many variables during the day and consistency or constants are not possible.

    As far as the union fighting telematics, well, thats a bit late. They layed down and accepted the company's original explanation that telematics was a safety related device and allowed it into our contract.

    In 2013, there is NO PLAN by the International to try and eliminate the use or remove existing language relating to telematics.

    I dont believe that at the local level or the national level, our union understands the implications for our drivers because most of them have been out of the system for years.

    The company believes its increasing its productivity of its drivers with these technological changes and using discipline in connection with this data was the ultimate goal.

    The cost of a package driver to UPS is too high, and they know they will never be able to get a cut in pay from the union, so instead, they have created a system intended to remove drivers from payroll, while negotiating a "tiered" pay rate for future employees.

    If they can succeed in lowering the starting wage and increasing the progression that it takes to reach full pay, to lets say 5 years, then they can attempt to "turnover" its drivers long before they reach 5 years.

    This is the strategy that is in play for UPS.

    Performance on the route is still something that has to be determined by an "on road" observation and no pile of papers or reports will ever determine a fair days work for a fair days pay.

  10. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    I'm so sick of this mentality.
    What should the union have done??
    How many harrassment grievances were filed?
    I'm betting none.
    You said it yourself, the union stepped up when the discipline started, the first warning letter.
    Till then, what options did your elected officials have unless impowered by the members?
    If you and your co-workers stopped being scared, and joined together like union employees are supposed to, you could have nipped it in the bud before anybody got a warning letter.
    You are the union, it's not here to police things for you.
    It's here to back us up when we, the members, isolate a problem in the form of a grievance.
    When we run around with our tails between our legs and mind our own business, we get what we deserve.
    So by all means, keep it up and UPS will continue to push the envelope as far as they can.

  11. 3 done 3 to go

    3 done 3 to go In control of my own destiny

    I can't wait for telematics. Runners will be way paid over. As for the union- IMHO. They want to have drivers fired also. Then they don't have to make full pay outs. They would save thousands for a driver of 20-25 years to be terminated. Instead of 30 plus. Haven't seen business agent in months. I am starting to believe thats what UPS is doing also..Reduction of highly paid drivers
  12. ROW A

    ROW A New Member

    just do your job guys its simple as that and keep good records and you be fine and always support your union !!!!!!!!
  13. 3 done 3 to go

    3 done 3 to go In control of my own destiny

    Keep good records-Yes. The problem is we are up against liars and people who will do anything to make them selves look good. Drivers are human. We will mess up some time. My fear is the petty crap that was brushed off 5 even 10 years ago will haunt us. Management is even lazier. They have technology. Thats what they do now. Watch us on a computer screen. My center manager and district manager never ran off packages. NUMBERS!!! But- they say we are not doing enough? I don't see the union backing us up. They just want NUMBERS-also. Sold out UPS contract-to get card check at overnight,
  14. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    IYHO, the union wants to have drivers fired also. "Then they don't have to make full pay outs. They would save thousands for a driver of 20-25 years to be terminated."

    Alright. Question. If that's true, where is the payment gonna come from for others then? If everybody is fired, who's paying in? You think the union wants that? Less paying members? OK.
  15. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    We all know the company and companies survive on employee turnover, in some cases. The union wants turnover.

    Think about it this way: it is not about 'less members' because even at bare-bones, UPS will need to have so many drivers to cover every route and of course the covers, etc.

    If a 20 year driver is gone, instead of him making 30 years, that is a large savings in pension when you think about the thousands of drivers per local dipping into the pension funds.

    Also, the union gets union dues and initiation fees from the new-hire. That is why the union AND UPS keep the wages low- so turnover remains high and actually both parties benefit from that, no? The union benefits, as long as the number of jobs remains fairly steady....because then they're getting more initiation fees, the same amount of dues collected, and far less strain on the pension funds in the future.

    Just imo
  16. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    1. The runners wont significantly change their behavior because their behavior will be conveniently overlooked as long as they continue making their supervisor look good on paper.

    2. I dont know the details of your local union or pension plan, but where I'm at the pension is administrated by a trust fund that is a completely seperate entity from the local union that represents us. We have a strong local, with active participation by the members, and a Business Agent who is on the property dealing with management on a weekly basis. So the idea that terminations are desired by the union in order to strengthen the pension is completely untrue, at least here.
  17. swen

    swen New Member

    Telematics are the current favorite or IE. The ability to track the location of a driver and their idle time. Just do the job you normally do. Most centers dont have access to the information on the telematics and rely on a report from the nearest hub about the drivers activity. Cross your t's and dot your i's and do the job and the methods. Policy and procedure them to death.
  18. packageguy

    packageguy Well-Known Member

    Swen, point taking. Now they have each driver pinpointed, If you sheet a stop at 1:55 and drive 5 miles and deliver it they know. If you deliver a stop and turn around to do a section 4 miles miles away and then come back to the 1st section they know. I was in the ofice this week with a driver who missed 28 stops. center manager pulled out a report that had him pinpointed stop for stop. where he sheeted and delivered it. driver said he was not in that area, this report had he there. I LOOKED AT THE DRIVER HIS ONLY WORDS WERE OOOPPPS. Your right cross your t's and dot your I's, and give them nothing.
  19. Backlasher

    Backlasher Stronger, Faster, Browner

    When we have time studies why not have Ba or Stewart go on road as a follow up to UPS time studies. Why not have this or something similar in contract. There are way to many variables that effect our time and you could have the exact same run and have a different time each day cause of all the variables. The harasment of production needs to be STRONGLY ENFORCED. I had 30 minutes of travel and wait at meet point between finishing E.A.M.'S and my 1030 air and I had a big confrontation with center manager tday. I explained it and said what do u think i did just go to a park and watch birds during that time. Insulting me is the reason why I said it.
  20. Richard Harrow

    Richard Harrow Would you pay a dime to see this?

    Telematics hardware has been installed in probably about 75% of the vehicles in my center, the system is expected to go live in my building sometime in May of this year.
    Every person who shows up in brown to work in the morning should be rejoicing over telematics. For one, we all know that its impossible to put up good numbers on paper following all of their "methods" that UPS invented back in the 1960's when we handled only a fraction of the volume we handle now. They have their telematics, and now they can deal with the consequences of the drivers having to follow these outdated rules. Two, in most area's of my center, area trace is wrong. Remember, just like we have a sales department that gets paid money (not points on a card) to recruit business, we have people in place in that get paid to setup routes in a sensible order. Follow your trace as it is in the board, its your job. Never offer advice on how to setup a route; you're just an idiot that delivers and picks up packages, not an industrial engineer.
    If everyone does what they are supposed to, follows their "methods", and walks the line, feeder drivers won't be the only hourly employees making $100k+ anymore. Be safe, all.