UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Signature or not we are still bound by the contents of the certification.
worst info notice I have seen so far ! :(
- Thread starter klein
- Start date
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
This issue has nothing to with our collective bargaining agreement.
The contract you speak of is between the Teamsters and the company.
An extra contractual agreement is an agreement made "on the side" that would contradict actual contract language.
The issue in question is on a company policy, releasing packages.
Unless it is in direct contradiction of a specific contractual article, it is not an extra contractrual agreement.
The contract you speak of is between the Teamsters and the company.
An extra contractual agreement is an agreement made "on the side" that would contradict actual contract language.
The issue in question is on a company policy, releasing packages.
Unless it is in direct contradiction of a specific contractual article, it is not an extra contractrual agreement.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Before you ask, no I don't sign anything except my annual certification and haz-mat rosters.
moreluck
golden ticket member
So my chance of getting your autograph is like nil ?? I was gonna hang it right next to my Gene Krupa one.
rod
Retired 22 years
What could you possibly have accomplished besides loosing your dignity by complaining about something so stupid. Every, and I mean every, customer complaint is full of hyperbole. If you want your pkg. and a signature is required STAY HOME. Don't you have better things to whine about? If you don't your life is grand.
klein
Für Meno :)
So, does that mean every driver should right "call UPS for pick-up" after the first attempt they make ? (dumb) !!!
C
chuchu
Guest
For years we have written things like: Do not agree; don't understand; transgresses existing company policy; RTS. IF they even look at the paper later they will come and talk to us about the statement we wrote. If there is a problem we can grieve it. They normally don't even read the documents and a couple drivers just walk to their truck after the PCM and toss them in the trash. They have never audited the roster of drivers documents to the point of catching the ones that are missing. I guess our sups are as tired of the document marathon as much as we are.
So you are agreeing with Upstate that you do not have a choice except to sign this?
I strongly disagree.
Oops, apparently not.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
My statement didn't come out right.
All I was saying is that I'm not sure that these type of instances are truly in the realm of extra contractual agreements as defined in the contract.
Upon further reflection, I can see how this may very well be the basis for our option of refusing to sign, an option I have always exercised without actually contemplating the contractual viability.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Bubbles, would you agree that we are still bound by the contents of the DR certification, whether we choose to sign it or not?
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
I would say we are bound to work as directed, so long as the directive is not unsafe, illegeal, or unethical.
As far as the DR certification goes, I'd say it's an attempt by the company to document that you have been informed and understand.
That is, if you are dumb enough to sign it.
hondo
promoted to mediocrity
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: I believe you said something along the lines of knowing how to pick your battles. I don't recall the specifics of the D.R. re/certification form, but I don't recall it containing anything too worrisome for anyone doing the job in a good faith manner. And I'm sure I have signed it at least once, in the new driver training packet. Whenever any of these forms are presented to me for a sig, I review it and if I have questions I ask. Of course a lot of times you can get 13 different answers if you ask 12 different supes. The last time I RTSed a form it was some kind of safe work observation/equipment usage in the hub. A few of the problems I had with that: (A)there were like 50 points with 3 different boxes each for supe to choose to check off. It was blank, he hadn't checked off anything, yet wanted me to sign it. (B) This supe had previously demonstrated that he either had forgotten or never knew important points about this job/equipment. (C) the form referenced equipment we didn't have in that building, or was using much different terminology for the equipment.
^^^I would say I am substantially in agreement with that statement. IMO, if a driver is starting to face discipline issues about DRs (and the claims have been properly investigated and sustained), s/he should be reviewing the DR guidelines and 'sharpen up their game'. There may be underlying issues the driver has been using to rationalize the 'improper' DRs.
I think the issue of signing versus RTSing these forms [outside of anything that really is in conflict with the contract] is really most important before an arbitrator, so we're talking about a termination. There clearly is a difference between a signature; and putting down RTS, or signed under protest/duress, or do not understand/agree. Stewards and Union Reps obviously don't have the time to sit down with every new employee to explain/discuss all of these different answers and their possible ramifications to the employee (or even the entire bargaining unit), so I guess it gets oversimplified into the advice: don't/refuse to sign.
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