Would you risk termination by refusing to operate unsafe equipment?

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I'm thre guy here that has his family attacked and then gets attacked by the dog pack when I object. I have no interest in running any polls.

If you don't wish to step to the plate get out of the on deck circle.

 

[dilligaf]

upstate I think the poll as posed is a no brainer. everyone within those narrow confines will answer the same way.I've seen this particular scenario play out before. Clearly the driver has the right to refuse to move the equipment based on safety reasons. Clearly management should never threaten discipline for this refusal. Step past that issue and it is possible to safely bring the equipment back with high beams and four ways and I know of many dedicated feeder drivers that would have done so to make service on the packages.

I know we have many of those guys lurking in the background I'll challenge you to speak up before this point gets twisted all to hell.

Tie, I know that you will probably ignore this response but I also know that you will read it as you did my last one. Considering I'm the only one in this thread that refused to drive my truck back to the center with the hi beams only. I did this for a specific reason. It is illegal to not lower your hi beams to on coming traffic in this state. I imagine the same law applies to most states. You can be pulled over for this. I chose not to do this because I did not want to have to explain to a Highway Patrolman why I was driving a vehicle that did not have properly operating low beams. My choice and I will stand by that choice til hell freezes over. If you wish to address this with me please feel free to do so but do not imply that I was not legitimately doing my job by refusing to drive a piece of equipment that was not in proper working condition.

 

[RoyalFlush]

Is a seatbelt that broke out on the route, unecessary conflict? What about no headlights after dark?

I wouldn't tell a driver to drive a vehicle with no seat belt or no headlights after dark, but I have seen many drivers do it on their own over the years. The best rule of thumb is the out of service criteria used by the police during DOT inspections at the scales. If they say its safe and legal, we should feel safe in using the same criteria. At least one tail light is required. In the case that started this pole the company was wrong to have taken discipline. I have to assume the management person that told the driver to drive the trailer is not familiar with the legal requirements. It sounds like the driver only missed a week of work which indicates that the company realized it screwed up and reinstated to driver at the local level.

The other side of the coin are the drivers that commit obvious DOT violations. I see very few drivers doing a pre-trip and I see lots of vehicles with at least one light out (light are usually turned on in the AM when its raining so its easy to see them out) when they leave the building. I would estimate that at least 50% of our drivers violate the DOT regulations daily by not doing a pre-trip or by not completing a DVIR. What should we do with them?

 

[tieguy]

If you don't wish to step to the plate get out of the on deck circle.

I didn't realize an attack on the wife and a dishonest cover up by his friends was a requirement of the "on deck" circle.

does this mean I can start attacking your wife because you are in the on deck circle?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I didn't realize an attack on the wife and a dishonest cover up by his friends was a requirement of the "on deck" circle.

does this mean I can start attacking your wife because you are in the on deck circle?

What I meant was if you don't like the way I word a poll feel free to start your own.

 

[tieguy]

What I meant was if you don't like the way I word a poll feel free to start your own.

i think I've always had the right to start my own but I appreciate your reliqusihing control.

Not trying to ruffle your feathers . I did think a question relevant to the case might have been "I would use the high beams and four ways to drive short distances to make service on the loads" might have been a nice option.

 

[Dragon]

Just a thought......

Most of you say you would not driver an unsafe vehicle - yet everyday you make your own decision to be unsafe

talking/texting on your cell phone/blue tooth while driving our truck and we tell you not to because its unsafe. (oh by the way you are not talking to us 99% of the time)

you drive around (does not matter how far the vehicle travels) with the bulk head door open - we told you its unsafe

you have a large radio strapped down in the cab - we told you its unsafe

you are never prepared to yield at intersection - we told you its unsafe

you unnecessarily back down residential driveways - we told you its unsafe

you back down the street to the correct house because you went by the house while looking at your diad - we told you its unsafe

you park next to the curb on busy road and you do not put your four ways on (rarely do you do it cause your methods suck..) - we told you its unsafe

and everyone's favorite - not wearing your seatbelt - we told you its unsafe

all of sudden you feel unsafe -now you want to tell us its unsafe........

I just thought you may want to know why some of us may not have any compassion for you when you call us.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Tie, I know that you will probably ignore this response but I also know that you will read it as you did my last one. Considering I'm the only one in this thread that refused to drive my truck back to the center with the hi beams only. I did this for a specific reason. It is illegal to not lower your hi beams to on coming traffic in this state. I imagine the same law applies to most states. You can be pulled over for this. I chose not to do this because I did not want to have to explain to a Highway Patrolman why I was driving a vehicle that did not have properly operating low beams. My choice and I will stand by that choice til hell freezes over. If you wish to address this with me please feel free to do so but do not imply that I was not legitimately doing my job by refusing to drive a piece of equipment that was not in proper working condition.

My headlights are seemingly on highbeam mode when I have the regular mode on. The mechanic has the lights pointed way too high, to the point that every car I pull behind adjust the rear view mirror. This bothers me a bit, but what can I do, I'm just a lowly pkg hustler.

 

[NHDRVR]

Oh yeah. I have done it twice. It wasn't a huge deal at the time but the 1st, it was because of bald tires on an 800 I was put in and the 2nd was because I didn't have break lights. Again, I really didn't get an argument on either one but I do know of a fellow driver who was told to continue his day when he lost the lights, all of them, in the middle of his afternoon. That could create issues...

 

[NHDRVR]

Just a thought......

Most of you say you would not driver an unsafe vehicle - yet everyday you make your own decision to be unsafe

talking/texting on your cell phone/blue tooth while driving our truck and we tell you not to because its unsafe. (oh by the way you are not talking to us 99% of the time)

you drive around (does not matter how far the vehicle travels) with the bulk head door open - we told you its unsafe

you have a large radio strapped down in the cab - we told you its unsafe

you are never prepared to yield at intersection - we told you its unsafe

you unnecessarily back down residential driveways - we told you its unsafe

you back down the street to the correct house because you went by the house while looking at your diad - we told you its unsafe

you park next to the curb on busy road and you do not put your four ways on (rarely do you do it cause your methods suck..) - we told you its unsafe

and everyone's favorite - not wearing your seatbelt - we told you its unsafe

all of sudden you feel unsafe -now you want to tell us its unsafe........

I just thought you may want to know why some of us may not have any compassion for you when you call us.

So, just to be clear, you are ok with expecting a driver to go about his business in a vehicle that is unsafe.... Sounds about right

 

[705red]

Just a thought......

Most of you say you would not driver an unsafe vehicle - yet everyday you make your own decision to be unsafe

talking/texting on your cell phone/blue tooth while driving our truck and we tell you not to because its unsafe. (oh by the way you are not talking to us 99% of the time)

Just because 1 or 2 drivers do it does not mean everyone does it.

you drive around (does not matter how far the vehicle travels) with the bulk head door open - we told you its unsafe

Telematics fixed that, thank god.

you have a large radio strapped down in the cab - we told you its unsafe

We also have a fire extinguisher strapped down in our cab, I take out my radio when you take that out.

you are never prepared to yield at intersection - we told you its unsafe

99,000 drivers never yield??????

you unnecessarily back down residential driveways - we told you its unsafe

You ever try to deliver 6 pottery barn boxes down a dirt road 3 blocks long and no turn around?

you back down the street to the correct house because you went by the house while looking at your diad - we told you its unsafe

Which report told you this? lol

you park next to the curb on busy road and you do not put your four ways on (rarely do you do it cause your methods suck..) - we told you its unsafe

Only as good as your management team............

and everyone's favorite - not wearing your seatbelt - we told you its unsafe

This should be done!!!!

all of sudden you feel unsafe -now you want to tell us its unsafe........

Whats funny is alot of what you mentioned happens when sups ride with the employee. Anyone remember the photo someone took of their sup not wearing his belt????

I just thought you may want to know why some of us may not have any compassion for you when you call us.

You dont have to have compasion, just follow the law, I dont need a hug afterwards.

 

[Dragon]

So, just to be clear, you are ok with expecting a driver to go about his business in a vehicle that is unsafe.... Sounds about right

JUST SO WE ARE CLEAR no I do not expect a driver to go about his business in a vehicle that is unsafe. NHDRVR as usual - drivers I assume you are one - only read/hear want they to read/hear. Please re-read the last line in my post.

 

[dilligaf]

My headlights are seemingly on highbeam mode when I have the regular mode on. The mechanic has the lights pointed way too high, to the point that every car I pull behind adjust the rear view mirror. This bothers me a bit, but what can I do, I'm just a lowly pkg hustler.

Damn, I wish I could remember what the formula is for adjusting headlights. Something like 15 feet away, they should hit the wall at about 3 feet. (?) They are easy to adjust, all you need is a philips head screw driver. Where's MFB when ya need him? LOL

 

[dilligaf]

You dont have to have compasion, just follow the law, I dont need a hug afterwards.

Thank you Red.

 

[Dragon]

Just a thought......

Most of you say you would not driver an unsafe vehicle - yet everyday you make your own decision to be unsafe

talking/texting on your cell phone/blue tooth while driving our truck and we tell you not to because its unsafe. (oh by the way you are not talking to us 99% of the time)

Just because 1 or 2 drivers do it does not mean everyone does it.

You truly believe that? at a minimum 50% a day

you drive around (does not matter how far the vehicle travels) with the bulk head door open - we told you its unsafe

Telematics fixed that, thank god.

The second you relieze you do not have telematics that door is open!! Who are you kidding.

you have a large radio strapped down in the cab - we told you its unsafe

We also have a fire extinguisher strapped down in our cab, I take out my radio when you take that out.

Try putting out a fire with your radio. The fire extinguisher is there for your safety.

you are never prepared to yield at intersection - we told you its unsafe

99,000 drivers never yield??????

Prepared to yield

you unnecessarily back down residential driveways - we told you its unsafe

You ever try to deliver 6 pottery barn boxes down a dirt road 3 blocks long and no turn around?

unnecessarily back down - in that situation you would have to back down.

you back down the street to the correct house because you went by the house while looking at your diad - we told you its unsafe

Which report told you this? lol
Telematics!! Nothing like google earth with your GPS trace on it....

you park next to the curb on busy road and you do not put your four ways on (rarely do you do it cause your methods suck..) - we told you its unsafe

Only as good as your management team............

If you were trained incorrectly the first time - but have been retrained in the correct method what is your defense??

and everyone's favorite - not wearing your seatbelt - we told you its unsafe

This should be done!!!!

It ain't!!

all of sudden you feel unsafe -now you want to tell us its unsafe........

Whats funny is alot of what you mentioned happens when sups ride with the employee. Anyone remember the photo someone took of their sup not wearing his belt????

I truely find that hard to believe. I have yet to catch one supervisor with out a seatbelt on - even inside of the building.

I just thought you may want to know why some of us may not have any compassion for you when you call us.

 

[Dragon]

You dont have to have compasion, just follow the law, I dont need a hug afterwards.

Ditto for the drivers Red, Ditto for the drivers.

 

[slantnosechevy]

Just a thought......

Most of you say you would not driver an unsafe vehicle - yet everyday you make your own decision to be unsafe

talking/texting on your cell phone/blue tooth while driving our truck and we tell you not to because its unsafe. (oh by the way you are not talking to us 99% of the time)

you drive around (does not matter how far the vehicle travels) with the bulk head door open - we told you its unsafe

you have a large radio strapped down in the cab - we told you its unsafe

you are never prepared to yield at intersection - we told you its unsafe

you unnecessarily back down residential driveways - we told you its unsafe

you back down the street to the correct house because you went by the house while looking at your diad - we told you its unsafe

you park next to the curb on busy road and you do not put your four ways on (rarely do you do it cause your methods suck..) - we told you its unsafe

and everyone's favorite - not wearing your seatbelt - we told you its unsafe

all of sudden you feel unsafe -now you want to tell us its unsafe........

I just thought you may want to know why some of us may not have any compassion for you when you call us.

You forgot leaving the keys in the ignition or a spare key in the bulkhead. Or how about my favorite, leaving the car running while delivering. If you know that any of these violations are going on then by all means enforce them. You won't get an argument from me and I'm a steward. Obviously, management isn't doing their job if drivers are comfortable doing these things. Anyone with half a brain could spot these bad habits on an OJS ride as they fumble through the day out of their routine. As a member of a safety committee, if I witness these things happening out on area or in the yard I will give the driver a friendly tip and remind them that drivers have been fired for these things. All the more reason I welcome telematics. The vast majority of drivers who do it right on a daily basis will feel the same. It's interesting that 90% of the drivers who continue to practice these unsafe methods are bonus drivers or relatively new and haven't had any real extensive training because they make it through without any accidents and their overallowed is within reason. Those drivers are just plain lucky and so is UPS. They will tell you point blank that so and so supe knows about it and never said anything. I'm not saying all OCS's don't do their job but production is still at the forefront of some over safety.

 

[Dragon]

Those same OCS's who have turned a blind eye to these practices will be the same ones who will gravitate to changing time cards and will be leaving the company soon thereafter.

 

[Shifting Contents]

Whats funny is alot of what you mentioned happens when sups ride with the employee. Anyone remember the photo someone took of their sup not wearing his belt????

I truely find that hard to believe. I have yet to catch one supervisor with out a seatbelt on - even inside of the building.

We had a visiting sup ride the side of the truck on the passenger side like a trash man through the building because he was on the phone and could not get the jump seat down one handed (I know it doesn't make sense). When someone called him on it he said, "You got me" and gave them a t-shirt from the safety awards closet as is the practice in our building if you catch a sup doing something unsafe. And just think, if I don't wear my seat belt I get fired.

 

[Dragon]

Whats funny is alot of what you mentioned happens when sups ride with the employee. Anyone remember the photo someone took of their sup not wearing his belt????

I truely find that hard to believe. I have yet to catch one supervisor with out a seatbelt on - even inside of the building.

We had a visiting sup ride the side of the truck on the passenger side like a trash man through the building because he was on the phone and could not get the jump seat down one handed (I know it doesn't make sense). When someone called him on it he said, "You got me" and gave them a t-shirt from the safety awards closet as is the practice in our building if you catch a sup doing something unsafe. And just think, if I don't wear my seat belt I get fired.

just when you think you have heard it all....and along comes a gem like this one.