Yet another example of abject corporate stupidity...

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
I dont have a problem being held to a high standard.

I do have a problem...being held to an irrational and idotic standard.

As drivers, we make thousands of decisions every day in real time and in the real world. When an accident happens, those decisions will be second-guessed by a management person who is employing 20/20 hindsight from behind a desk. So the management person will always be right, and the driver will always be wrong.

Upon what logical, rational basis does the species of the animal play a role in determining the avoidability of the accident that kills it?

As I indicated earlier, I would agree ownership would be a silly way to determine avoidable or no with any particular accident.

On the flip side, it occurs to me that automatically assuming every hit of an animal, wild or domestic on a public road would have to be unavoidable would also ignore the circumstances of each individual case.
 

CharleyHustle

Well-Known Member
Most hit while parked where a safe parking spot was chosen

Its been years since we had a "hit while parked" that wasn't aviodable. What is the definition of a "safe parking spot"? I think I'm going to be parking further away from delivery points after you explain it. I've been at this 27 years and had who knows how many safety rides and I've never once had a boss say "don't park here". And thats it, isn't it? If you followed the habits and points AND "many" (go ahead and and give us a few manys if you like) other such things, well we wouldn't be out here on an accident call. Actually, they're called "crashes" or "incidents" now, because if you call them accidents that could imply that it might have been, an accident.
 

Just_another_day_at_work

Well-Known Member
Sure -
Most hit while parked where a safe parking spot was chosen
Most hit in rear while stopped in traffic
Accidents where the UPS driver is not at fault and the investigation answers yes to each and every question about weather the driver followed all the 5 habits, 10 points and many other such questions.
According to sober's initial post, hitting a wild animal on a public road

I am sure there are others.
My experience wasn't an accident. I was bit by dog that got out of control and the owner didn't hold the leash hard enough and charged at me... Guess what I didn't do? Expect the unexpected. I was like really?!
So if I get struck by lightning, what is it going to be?
I don't mind these rules, but everybody in management use them to pass the responsibility on the drivers, it's the same way how the OJSes happening and all the other production crap, safety violations. It's always the drivers' fault, nobody can/wants to admit it that something else might be wrong.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
Sure -
Most hit while parked where a safe parking spot was chosen
Most hit in rear while stopped in traffic
Accidents where the UPS driver is not at fault and the investigation answers yes to each and every question about weather the driver followed all the 5 habits, 10 points and many other such questions.
According to sober's initial post, hitting a wild animal on a public road

I am sure there are others.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

It would be like me telling you how you could have avoided the paper cut on your little pinkie if you had just picked up the paper with your other hand.

Most hit in rear ???????? how the hell do you avoid being hit from behind ?
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
51 out of 100 is "most", and that's not very good.
Your explanation is horrible and you did not expect the unexpected questions you would get from it.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
As I indicated earlier, I would agree ownership would be a silly way to determine avoidable or no with any particular accident.

On the flip side, it occurs to me that automatically assuming every hit of an animal, wild or domestic on a public road would have to be unavoidable would also ignore the circumstances of each individual case.

The fact that you even have the nerve to express your opinion on this from your desk annoys me. Tell me o wise one how do you decide whether (the correct spelling) we did enough to avoid a dog running in front of our package car?
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
The fact that you even have the nerve to express your opinion on this from your desk annoys me. Tell me o wise one how do you decide whether (the correct spelling) we did enough to avoid a dog running in front of our package car?

You are missing the point completely. Based on your snide comments about my nerve and the spelling nazi routine I am guessing you are doing so intentionally.

My point was that just automatically assigning avoidable or not avoidable to any type of accident without looking at the specific incident seems silly to me. If you have a rule that any striking of an animal on a public road is unavoidable, then you let off the hook any sadist that goes out of his way to strike an animal that is not directly in his travel path or is trying to get out of the way.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
You are missing the point completely. Based on your snide comments about my nerve and the spelling nazi routine I am guessing you are doing so intentionally.

My point was that just automatically assigning avoidable or not avoidable to any type of accident without looking at the specific incident seems silly to me. If you have a rule that any striking of an animal on a public road is unavoidable, then you let off the hook any sadist that goes out of his way to strike an animal that is not directly in his travel path or is trying to get out of the way.

So you're saying that there are enough sadist, mean-spirited and cruel drivers out there just targeting animals for jollies that this policy must be put in place?

really...? I'm trying to understand this.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Its been years since we had a "hit while parked" that wasn't aviodable. What is the definition of a "safe parking spot"? I think I'm going to be parking further away from delivery points after you explain it. I've been at this 27 years and had who knows how many safety rides and I've never once had a boss say "don't park here". And thats it, isn't it? If you followed the habits and points AND "many" (go ahead and and give us a few manys if you like) other such things, well we wouldn't be out here on an accident call. Actually, they're called "crashes" or "incidents" now, because if you call them accidents that could imply that it might have been, an accident.

There is no such thing as "safe parking". You could park the truck in 12 open parking spaces in the middle of a wide-open parking lot with no vehicles around for hundreds of feet, and if someone wasn't paying attention and plowed into your truck you'd still be hit with the avoidable for not parking closer to the stop for delivery.

No matter what you do, it could have always been done better by someone sitting behind the desk.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
You are missing the point completely. Based on your snide comments about my nerve and the spelling nazi routine I am guessing you are doing so intentionally.

My point was that just automatically assigning avoidable or not avoidable to any type of accident without looking at the specific incident seems silly to me. If you have a rule that any striking of an animal on a public road is unavoidable, then you let off the hook any sadist that goes out of his way to strike an animal that is not directly in his travel path or is trying to get out of the way.

Wow. You got me.

That is why I took this job. It was the lure of running over animals. I don't even know how to respond to this.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Slow down guys. I am not saying there are any sadist drivers few trying to hit animalsmuch less accusing anyone on this board of doing it. I am trying to say that making a blanket rule about whether (thx re-raise) an accident is avoidable or not before it ever happens and ignoring the particular facts of the accident seems silly to me. To me
mr, that includes both assuming every run in with domestic animal is avoidable, or automatically assuming any run in with any animal is unavoidable.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I can understand and accept the need to hold us to a higher standard.

There comes a point, however, when the standard is ridiculous and arbitrary and utterly devoid of logic or common sense. And at that point, it is no longer possible to take anything the company says about safety seriously. I would say that we have reached that point.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares it is his duty." -George Bernard Shaw

Can't fathom why this popped into my head?
 

Old International

Now driving a Sterling
Heres the question. It is 2:55 am, and I am in charge of a 200% load in double trailers. I am doing the speed limit, +- 5 MPH(55 mph). 4 lane highway, with a center turn lane. Road is dry, weather is clear. No oncoming traffic, headlights on hi beams.
Two labs( at least that they looked like) are doing the wild thing in the middle of my lane. By the time I see the dogs, understand what is going on, I have less the 2 seconds to do something. Remember, I am covering 88 feet(more or less) PER SECOND. A full panic, both feet on the brake stop will take 250+ feet. A swerve, hard enough to miss the dogs, will result in a trailer turning over, or at the very least, the vehicle leaving the roadway.

WHAT DO YOU DO..............
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Heres the question. It is 2:55 am, and I am in charge of a 200% load in double trailers. I am doing the speed limit, +- 5 MPH(55 mph). 4 lane highway, with a center turn lane. Road is dry, weather is clear. No oncoming traffic, headlights on hi beams.
Two labs( at least that they looked like) are doing the wild thing in the middle of my lane. By the time I see the dogs, understand what is going on, I have less the 2 seconds to do something. Remember, I am covering 88 feet(more or less) PER SECOND. A full panic, both feet on the brake stop will take 250+ feet. A swerve, hard enough to miss the dogs, will result in a trailer turning over, or at the very least, the vehicle leaving the roadway.

WHAT DO YOU DO..............

I love dogs more than most, but..........
 

Old International

Now driving a Sterling
Heres the question. It is 2:55 am, and I am in charge of a 200% load in double trailers. I am doing the speed limit, +- 5 MPH(55 mph). 4 lane highway, with a center turn lane. Road is dry, weather is clear. No oncoming traffic, headlights on hi beams.
Two labs( at least that they looked like) are doing the wild thing in the middle of my lane. By the time I see the dogs, understand what is going on, I have less the 2 seconds to do something. Remember, I am covering 88 feet(more or less) PER SECOND. A full panic, both feet on the brake stop will take 250+ feet. A swerve, hard enough to miss the dogs, will result in a trailer turning over, or at the very least, the vehicle leaving the roadway.

WHAT DO YOU DO..............

Now change the equation- It is a young adult, drunk, pushing a bicycle.
HMMMMMMM?






In the first case? I didn't even flinch. Just said a prayer to the doggy God saying I was sorry.
In the second? Don't ask me how, but I missed the drunk- I think it was the reflectors on the bike giving my just enough time to move a half lane to the left. If there had been a vehicle on my left, I would have had to make a really bad choice- either one would have most likely resulted in a death. As it was, when the cops found the guy, he had the balls to complain about the *&&%^*()$$@#$ truck driver that almost hit him. I wish I could have seen the guys face when the cop informed him that he was the luckiest wino alive.

SO BEFORE YOU JUDGE, DRIVE A MILE IN MY SHOES.
 
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