Yet another pension collapse under H. This one at local 707.

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
In my case Ron Carey upped the pension across the board to at the time a very high monthly payment. He know that the orphans would drag the pension down but politically he did it to get reelected.
Ron Carey knew none of that, nor did he know that he would be removed from office the next year?
Had he known this pension increase was "unsustainable", then surely H&H would have known as well?
Yet over the ensuing 17 consecutive years in office they did nothing to "beat back' this supposed political maneuver.
In fact, they did the opposite, they allowed UPS and others to withdraw.

If this was what you say it was, H&H had a duty to "right the wrong", and the perfect time to do it would have been as soon as they took the helm.
But instead, they stayed the course of their predecessor, why?
 

Inthegame

Well-Known Member
Ron Carey knew none of that, nor did he know that he would be removed from office the next year?
Had he known this pension increase was "unsustainable", then surely H&H would have known as well?
Yet over the ensuing 17 consecutive years in office they did nothing to "beat back' this supposed political maneuver.
In fact, they did the opposite, they allowed UPS and others to withdraw.

If this was what you say it was, H&H had a duty to "right the wrong", and the perfect time to do it would have been as soon as they took the helm.
But instead, they stayed the course of their predecessor, why?
One of those "H's" didn't take the helm until 2011.
 

Spongebob1

Well-Known Member
One of those "H's" didn't take the helm until 2011.

Well I respectfully disagree, and here's why,...

The H you are referring to has been on the GEB for the last 17 years, hasn't he been an International VP since 1999? Then 2011 became S.T. He is as culpable as the other H for the current state of all the failing pensions.
Any GEB member had a responsibility to step up to the plate and "get the ball rolling" to stop the bleeding of the pension crisis! So many choose to ignore or were oblivious to the problem!
 
Well I respectfully disagree, and here's why,...

The H you are referring to has been on the GEB for the last 17 years, hasn't he been an International VP since 1999? Then 2011 became S.T. He is as culpable as the other H for the current state of all the failing pensions.
Any GEB member had a responsibility to step up to the plate and "get the ball rolling" to stop the bleeding of the pension crisis! So many choose to ignore or were oblivious to the problem!
How come Fred never stepped up on the pension issue?
 
Well I respectfully disagree, and here's why,...

The H you are referring to has been on the GEB for the last 17 years, hasn't he been an International VP since 1999? Then 2011 became S.T. He is as culpable as the other H for the current state of all the failing pensions.
Any GEB member had a responsibility to step up to the plate and "get the ball rolling" to stop the bleeding of the pension crisis! So many choose to ignore or were oblivious to the problem!
I don't really understand why Fred never spoke out on this in the last 17 years?
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
The H you are referring to has been on the GEB for the last 17 years, hasn't he been an International VP since 1999? Then 2011 became S.T. He is as culpable as the other H for the current state of all the failing pensions.


How exactly are they responsible for the crisis ?

Can they somehow manipulate the stock market ?


Since the Consent Decree in 1988.... it's illegal for the IBT to have any say so

in investment strategies for the Central States Pension Fund.

Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan handle that.


So again....

How exactly are they responsible for the crisis ?



-Bug-
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
How come Fred never stepped up on the pension issue?

I don't really understand why Fred never spoke out on this in the last 17 years?


The bigger question is....

Out of any "newly" organized companies in his Local (in the last 17 years)


How many, has he negotiated in to Central States.

What about his running mates ?

Members might ask these questions.... when they are asking for their vote. :biggrin:



-Bug-
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
The same guy has been at the "helm" for the last 17 years.
Are you suggesting a dummy pulpit has been at work since 2011?


Only 11 days till they count the ballots, in your delegate election.

Friday night, after work.... is a great time to campaign. (till the wee hours)

It shows commitment.


You must have it wrapped up.

Congrats.

:biggrin:



-Bug-
 

35years

Gravy route
Check your math.


444 billion ??

Or million ?



-Bug-
This decreased UPS's minimum contribution by $444,415,385 for 2014 alone.

The pension was underfunded by 1 Billion, $444,415,385 (444 Million) would have been UPS's minimum contribution. But the rules have changed and 78% funded = 100% funded. I wrote Trillion by mistake, sorry.
 

Inthegame

Well-Known Member
Well I respectfully disagree, and here's why,...

The H you are referring to has been on the GEB for the last 17 years, hasn't he been an International VP since 1999? Then 2011 became S.T. He is as culpable as the other H for the current state of all the failing pensions.
Apparently your fervor for your desired candidates clouds your ability to check facts. The "H" I'm referring to was not on the GEB since '99. Nonetheless, my response was directed at a statement suggesting H&H should have worked in tandem to "right the wrong" even though one "H" didn't assume a substantial position of power until 2011.
 
Apparently your fervor for your desired candidates clouds your ability to check facts. The "H" I'm referring to was not on the GEB since '99. Nonetheless, my response was directed at a statement suggesting H&H should have worked in tandem to "right the wrong" even though one "H" didn't assume a substantial position of power until 2011.
You have to understand Game that these guys know about as much teamsters history as 2013.
 

10 point

Well-Known Member
Not to be a jerk Dave but for years you have been telling everyone how huge the payout was on your pension. Do you see that these astronomical monthly payments are unsustainable? I know you are the guy that loaded up on the 401K and I know you had a divorce but do you see if pensions were at payouts that were responsible even though people wouldn't like it it would be better for all.

In my case Ron Carey upped the pension across the board to at the time a very high monthly payment. He know that the orphans would drag the pension down but politically he did it to get reelected.

You have preached 401k's for years and being frugal. Hopefully people took that to heart.
It was raised $1000/mo during the work stoppage in 1997 to counter the company's offer.

Not for a political reason.

If the membership could see the end result, knowing the state of the fund at that time, and not be concerned that it was going to deplete by partying on the Titanic then it shows the greed mentality of the rank and file.

The company wanted to break the union's solidarity and the membership took the bait and is now paying for it.

There's more people to blame beside Carey. Those that took and continued to take money that wasn't put into their fund are just as much at fault as Carey.
 

35years

Gravy route
UPS has just under 8 Billion in unfunded pension liabilities across all of its defined benefit plans.

"As of Dec. 31, U.S. defined benefit plan assets totaled $28.89 billion, while projected benefit obligations totaled $36.85 billion, for a funding ratio of 78.4%, according to the 10-K."

http://www.pionline.com/article/201...ion-in-us-pension-plan-contributions-for-2016

Since UPS contributes approximately $1.16 Billion yearly, TOTAL to all of its plans, the $8 Billion deficit is concerning to say the least. Additionally the funding gap has been increasing and accelerating!

http://www.browncafe.com/community/...s-pension-plan-contributions-for-2016.368596/
 

MojaveJim

Member
The pension payouts are fair and set up to stay in business. My 12% 401k plan should be enough to fund the rest. And because I'm a reasonable person I'm planning on working till 62 with all the other Americans. Actually all the other Americans work much much longer. You are a realShart1.

Lead Belly, "because I'm a reasonable person I'm planning on working till 62 " So it's unreasonable to retire at 57 like I'm doing? You don't have any idea what any individuals situation is, such as health or family. If you feel righteous by working till 62, go for it. Working longer than you need to is just plain foolish. Life is short. I had a customer (truck driver) a few years ago in his mid to late 60's that died in a car accident while driving to his appt. to put in his retirement papers. Maybe we all should work up until the day we day we die. It would help out our pension plan tremendously. Take one for the team, you first Lead Belly!
 

10 point

Well-Known Member
Lead Belly, "because I'm a reasonable person I'm planning on working till 62 " So it's unreasonable to retire at 57 like I'm doing? You don't have any idea what any individuals situation is, such as health or family. If you feel righteous by working till 62, go for it. Working longer than you need to is just plain foolish. Life is short. I had a customer (truck driver) a few years ago in his mid to late 60's that died in a car accident while driving to his appt. to put in his retirement papers. Maybe we all should work up until the day we day we die. It would help out our pension plan tremendously. Take one for the team, you first Lead Belly!

Some of the drivers i work with enjoy their jobs and would never retire at 62. It's great money and they say the "work out" keeps them younger.

Some feeder drivers and clerks work into their mid to late sixties because the work is easier.

For some.,.morbid as it is ;... it's their social life.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Some of the drivers i work with enjoy their jobs and would never retire at 62. It's great money and they say the "work out" keeps them younger.

Some feeder drivers and clerks work into their mid to late sixties because the work is easier.

For some.,.morbid as it is ;... it's their social life.

I start my new 22.3 job on Tuesday. My plan is still to retire at my eligibility date (7/1/18) but if I enjoy what I am doing and do not have any immediate plans to relocate I very well may stay past that date.
 
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