Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe Community Center
Current Events
You say you are a liberal.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 122120" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>You could write volumes on this term alone and still never see the true end. You really have to go back IMO and study the ages of mankind and how mankind developed the systems of governance and society and among that would included it's various social, religious and cultural beliefs & growth. </p><p> </p><p>In the case of western European man of which American society was developed from, one needs to understand past European governing systems and beliefs as well as the impact of the religious and cultural aspects. What we call liberal today and it's implied meanings would standout as vastly different from what was called liberal 200 plus years ago during the "age of Enlightenment."</p><p> </p><p>IMO and using the classical definition, there is no "liberal" movement today to speak of as it pertains to the powers that rule Washington and when I say powers I mean the Democrat and Republican parties on equal scale. One may hold more power during a time frame but the end result over time for the nation as a whole varies little. The democrat party would be what I would call interventionist and maybe social interventionist is a better term but that is not totally accurate and the same is true of the republicans but I'll get to that. </p><p> </p><p>The democrats see issues out in the public sphere and how to use gov't and it's force of law via gov't bureaucracy to solve these issues. Also the thinking being as these issues are addressed and hopefully with some satisfaction to the persons effected that they will endear themselves to the democrats and on election day vote accordingly. Human nature being what it is that tends to hold true.</p><p> </p><p> The republicans themselves are quite the same as they see gov't as the mechanism for good and solving problems but with a slight twist to it. They do mandate by law and force of law but they use the so-called "privatized" model to give the illusion of seperation from gov't. This is in truth an illusion and the recent changes to 401k's are a good example. Now by federal law, an employer can compell an employee into a 401k plan. Now I'm not against 401k's, I have one and I've even advocated elimination of our pension system in exchange for the 401k vehicle (I also know I'm outnumbered too, LOL!) but what we have today is gov't by force using interventionism but the maintenance of the vehicle is by private means, in this case the employer and employee. Social Security Privatization? Still force and compelling to participate but the maintenance vehicle is in private hands but overseen by federal law. </p><p> </p><p>In other words, both sides are interventionist and rarely differ that much when you look at it from both sides but the real difference is the democrats would maintain all control of the vehicle from creating it to driving it whereas the republicans would create the vehicle, detail driving and maintenance instructions but then in effect, hire someone else to drive it under the illusion of saying this solution is a free market economic solution when in fact the market was falsely created by gov't in the firstplace or at best they took a real market and manipulated it to their own ends. Does this endear them to a voting block as well? Absolutely. </p><p> </p><p>So at the end of the day both sides as I see it really are the same thing as under either one gov't grows bigger and bigger. It just the means of how that differs, that's all. So the labels conservative and liberal IMO really have no application because in reality they both are conserving a system that grows the size and scope of gov't. They both in effect are really conservatives in the truest meaning of the word. </p><p> </p><p>Personally I think Lew Rockwell summed it up best in a speech to democrat and republican Congressional aids by in Dec. 2005'</p><p> </p><p><a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/imposed-freedom.html" target="_blank">The Impossibility of Imposed Freedom by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 122120, member: 2189"] You could write volumes on this term alone and still never see the true end. You really have to go back IMO and study the ages of mankind and how mankind developed the systems of governance and society and among that would included it's various social, religious and cultural beliefs & growth. In the case of western European man of which American society was developed from, one needs to understand past European governing systems and beliefs as well as the impact of the religious and cultural aspects. What we call liberal today and it's implied meanings would standout as vastly different from what was called liberal 200 plus years ago during the "age of Enlightenment." IMO and using the classical definition, there is no "liberal" movement today to speak of as it pertains to the powers that rule Washington and when I say powers I mean the Democrat and Republican parties on equal scale. One may hold more power during a time frame but the end result over time for the nation as a whole varies little. The democrat party would be what I would call interventionist and maybe social interventionist is a better term but that is not totally accurate and the same is true of the republicans but I'll get to that. The democrats see issues out in the public sphere and how to use gov't and it's force of law via gov't bureaucracy to solve these issues. Also the thinking being as these issues are addressed and hopefully with some satisfaction to the persons effected that they will endear themselves to the democrats and on election day vote accordingly. Human nature being what it is that tends to hold true. The republicans themselves are quite the same as they see gov't as the mechanism for good and solving problems but with a slight twist to it. They do mandate by law and force of law but they use the so-called "privatized" model to give the illusion of seperation from gov't. This is in truth an illusion and the recent changes to 401k's are a good example. Now by federal law, an employer can compell an employee into a 401k plan. Now I'm not against 401k's, I have one and I've even advocated elimination of our pension system in exchange for the 401k vehicle (I also know I'm outnumbered too, LOL!) but what we have today is gov't by force using interventionism but the maintenance of the vehicle is by private means, in this case the employer and employee. Social Security Privatization? Still force and compelling to participate but the maintenance vehicle is in private hands but overseen by federal law. In other words, both sides are interventionist and rarely differ that much when you look at it from both sides but the real difference is the democrats would maintain all control of the vehicle from creating it to driving it whereas the republicans would create the vehicle, detail driving and maintenance instructions but then in effect, hire someone else to drive it under the illusion of saying this solution is a free market economic solution when in fact the market was falsely created by gov't in the firstplace or at best they took a real market and manipulated it to their own ends. Does this endear them to a voting block as well? Absolutely. So at the end of the day both sides as I see it really are the same thing as under either one gov't grows bigger and bigger. It just the means of how that differs, that's all. So the labels conservative and liberal IMO really have no application because in reality they both are conserving a system that grows the size and scope of gov't. They both in effect are really conservatives in the truest meaning of the word. Personally I think Lew Rockwell summed it up best in a speech to democrat and republican Congressional aids by in Dec. 2005' [url=http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/imposed-freedom.html]The Impossibility of Imposed Freedom by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.[/url] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe Community Center
Current Events
You say you are a liberal.
Top