yrc Worldwide

JonFrum

Member
Somebody help me to understand. Isn't the money for the retired person already in the fund, from years of contributions already as well as the investment of those contribution?
In theory, yes.

Under normal conditions all companies contribute at least 100% of the monies needed to fully fund their employees' future retirement. The Fund is at least 100% funded to begin with, and stays 100% funded over the years, as the employees complete their careers and then enjoy their retirement. Any drops in the markets are made up for by subsequent raises in the markets. Any companies that go out of business have left behind a fully funded pool of contributions that will provide for their employees' retirement.

Unfortunately the reality is like this. Many Teamster multi-employer funds deliberately seek to be only about 80% funded. The other 20% is owed by the contributing employers, but not owed right now.

Many funds optimistically (foolishly) assume the markets will always go up, and they will make 8.5% on their asset pool, on average, year after year. Actual losses are unthinkable.

When a company goes out of business, it owes pro rated Liability Withdrawal Payments to the fund. That's the difference between the actual funding level of the fund, and the 100% funding level. So it would owe about 20% in "normal" times, and maybe 45% or so now, because the markets have dropped and fund assets have shrunk. (UPS paid a $6.1 billion Withdrawal Liability Payment to Central States in Dec. of 2007. It would have been even more if they waited until 2008 to withdraw because the funding level had dropped even further by then. That's why the rush to ratify the Contract more than seven months early.)

The remaining contributing companies have to pay whatever Withdrawal Liability the bankrupt companies owed but didn't pay.
 

upssalesguy

UPS Defender
so it is bad for yrc, one of our largest competitors in the LTL market, having the dominant market share, to go out of business because they are union?

UPS could dominate the market with the YRC volume. YRC is going to BLAME the union for high costs when they go bankrupt...not sure were the good is for anyone in this situation other than UPS growing our own LTL market share.

i would think this would make you all want to organize fedex even more of a priority.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
so it is bad for yrc, one of our largest competitors in the LTL market, having the dominant market share, to go out of business because they are union?

UPS could dominate the market with the YRC volume. YRC is going to BLAME the union for high costs when they go bankrupt...not sure were the good is for anyone in this situation other than UPS growing our own LTL market share.

i would think this would make you all want to organize fedex even more of a priority.
Really? Small package is down 4% while cartage is down 26%, while small package is being hit with lay offs and freight is hiring. It seems like package is taking it in the rear!

What I want is a lighter dispatch! Im sick of working xmas hours in the summer time.

Why dont you go after FedEx freight business before you try to steal a union competitors business!
 

Brown287

Im not the Mail Man!
Seems to me this will be just another example of unions blaming everything and everyone else but themselves. If YRC is in trouble and thus them going out of business is somehow going to hurt UPS is fundamentally wrong. Maybe the unions should stop riding UPS's coat tails and start accomplishing something on thier own. For crying out loud from the looks of it with the unions buddies controlling all of government and it still wont accomplish anything which is viewed as pro-labor. If this NLRA and RLA stays the same in-regards to Fed-Ex my first call will to be my local cancelling all my DRIVE donations and I urge all you to do the same. What a joke!
 

JonFrum

Member
so it is bad for yrc, one of our largest competitors in the LTL market, having the dominant market share, to go out of business because they are union?

UPS could dominate the market with the YRC volume. YRC is going to BLAME the union for high costs when they go bankrupt...not sure were the good is for anyone in this situation other than UPS growing our own LTL market share.

i would think this would make you all want to organize fedex even more of a priority.
Hoffa reopened the YRC Contract just months after it was ratified, to give YRC, our competitor, a 10% wage cut.

Now, just months later, Hoffa has reopened the YRC Contract again to allow an additional 5% wage cut, plus an 18 month withdrawal from the pension plans.

This is an $11-plus per hour savings in wages and benefits for YRC.

Normally a company with the degree of troubles YRC has would eventually go bankrupt. But YRC has a friend in Hoffa. IF you can cut labor expenses more that $11 an hour, with similar cuts to management, I suppose any company could be saved, no matter how badly run.

Now ABF is loosing money and wants concessions, to "level the playing field."

Read about the concessions YRC Teamsters are currently voting on here . . .
https://web.archive.org/web/20141013023208/http://tdu.org/node/3213
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
I hate to say it but I will. . . . .anyone who is relying on having a pension as their major source of cash to live on in retirement will find themselves dumpster diving for their meals real soon. Anyone who worked for all of thoses years who has no other cash saved - 401k or just savings - shame on you for pissing it all away. I'm 12 years deep into my retirement savings and save heavy. And will continue to do so for the rest of my years . I'm not counting on a what my pension statement says I'll get at retirement. My outlook is a fraction of it , maybe 30%.

While what your saying is wise, I think a case can be made for the other side of the coin too: what good is sitting on a mountain of money if you are too old and weak to enjoy it?

One has to find a balance.

Anyways, I figure if I wind up broke and in a nursing home I can look back on all the fun I had :happy2:.
 

upssalesguy

UPS Defender
Hoffa reopened the YRC Contract just months after it was ratified, to give YRC, our competitor, a 10% wage cut.

Now, just months later, Hoffa has reopened the YRC Contract again to allow an additional 5% wage cut, plus an 18 month withdrawal from the pension plans.

This is an $11-plus per hour savings in wages and benefits for YRC.

Normally a company with the degree of troubles YRC has would eventually go bankrupt. But YRC has a friend in Hoffa. IF you can cut labor expenses more that $11 an hour, with similar cuts to management, I suppose any company could be saved, no matter how badly run.

Now ABF is loosing money and wants concessions, to "level the playing field."

Read about the concessions YRC Teamsters are currently voting on here . . .
https://web.archive.org/web/20141013023208/http://tdu.org/node/3213

i think they will be saved, and hoffa is doing a good job working with management at that company, imo. I wouldn't mind them giving UPS some of that business if they do have to re-organize. i can see why them going out of business can be bad for the overall health of the industry, so them coming back a little smaller wouldnt be bad!

my primary goal is fedex volume, that is my laser focus.
 

kenco80233

Well-Known Member
I hate to say it but I will. . . . .anyone who is relying on having a pension as their major source of cash to live on in retirement will find themselves dumpster diving for their meals real soon. Anyone who worked for all of thoses years who has no other cash saved - 401k or just savings - shame on you for pissing it all away. I'm 12 years deep into my retirement savings and save heavy. And will continue to do so for the rest of my years . I'm not counting on a what my pension statement says I'll get at retirement. My outlook is a fraction of it , maybe 30%.
I too have other sources of income and savings,however I do feel entitled to the retirement that I worked for.
 

feederdriver06

former monkey slave
While what your saying is wise, I think a case can be made for the other side of the coin too: what good is sitting on a mountain of money if you are too old and weak to enjoy it?

One has to find a balance.

Anyways, I figure if I wind up broke and in a nursing home I can look back on all the fun I had :happy2:.
I'm with ya on this driver but in My situation I am most def a 25 and out guy. I'll be 52 when I bail. At that age I should still be able to enjoy most of the things that I enjoy now and the greatest thing of all will be waking up every day not having to do anything at all if I choose and the bills will all be paid because of my years of self discipline:wink2:
 

feederdriver06

former monkey slave
I do feel entitled to the retirement that I worked for.
I totally agree with you and hope you get it all. its just ashame that there is so much greed and corruption that has undermined and threatened retirement plans. Many people are blind to it and have no idea that years from now their pension may not be whats currently promised. :peaceful:
 

Dustyroads

Well-Known Member
Just in passing since we're talking about the pension plan and retirement. If an individual takes a pension distribution before the calendar year when they turn 55 years old, they will suffer a 10% penalty, assessed by the IRS, on top of their normal Federal and state taxes that are due. For a retiree with 30 years at UPS full time, who was, for example 53 yo, the penalty would be $300 a month in addition to the taxes that they will owe on their pension. The penalty will follow the individual until they turn 59, if they take that early (pre-55) date. It's part of the tax code.
 
Just in passing since we're talking about the pension plan and retirement. If an individual takes a pension distribution before the calendar year when they turn 55 years old, they will suffer a 10% penalty, assessed by the IRS, on top of their normal Federal and state taxes that are due. For a retiree with 30 years at UPS full time, who was, for example 53 yo, the penalty would be $300 a month in addition to the taxes that they will owe on their pension. The penalty will follow the individual until they turn 59, if they take that early (pre-55) date. It's part of the tax code.

I think you are confusing matters here. First, isn't it impossible to collect a pension unless you are eligable to collect one? Second, I think you are confusing IRA'S and 401K'S with pensions!
 

Dustyroads

Well-Known Member
Not at all, numbers, feederdriver06 said he was leaving at age 52 and I was pointing out that pension distributions taken before age 55 incur an additional penalty, when one files their taxes. I'm not confused at all, I'm simply talking about penalties attached to early distributions, defined by the Internal Revenue code as those taken before age 55.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
Just in passing since we're talking about the pension plan and retirement. If an individual takes a pension distribution before the calendar year when they turn 55 years old, they will suffer a 10% penalty, assessed by the IRS, on top of their normal Federal and state taxes that are due. For a retiree with 30 years at UPS full time, who was, for example 53 yo, the penalty would be $300 a month in addition to the taxes that they will owe on their pension. The penalty will follow the individual until they turn 59, if they take that early (pre-55) date. It's part of the tax code.


You are missing part of the tax code:

If you receive pension or annuity payments before age 59 1/2, you may be subject to an additional 10% tax on early distributions. However, this additional tax will not apply if the payments are made after your separation from service in or after the year you reached age 55, or if the payments are part of a series of substantially equal payments that are paid over your life. For other exceptions to the tax, refer to Publication 575, Pension and Annuity Income
 

JonFrum

Member
Dusty, there is no special aditional 10% tax on early pensions received from any of the Teamster-sponsored multi-employer pension plans, or from the UPS-run single-employer plans.

You (and your tax expert wife) are misreading the Tax Code. Which admittedly is confusing.

Can either of you produce even one early retiree that has been assesed or paid the additional tax?
 

Dustyroads

Well-Known Member
Tax on Early Distributions





Most distributions (both periodic and nonperiodic) from qualified retirement plans and nonqualified annuity contracts made to you before you reach age 59½ are subject to an additional tax of 10%. This tax applies to the part of the distribution that you must include in gross income. It does not apply to any part of a distribution that is tax free, such as amounts that represent a return of your cost or that were rolled over to another retirement plan. It also does not apply to corrective distributions of excess deferrals, excess contributions, or excess aggregate contributions (discussed earlier under Taxation of Nonperiodic Payments).
For this purpose, a qualified retirement plan is:
  • A qualified employee plan (including a qualified cash or deferred arrangement (CODA) under Internal Revenue Code section 401(k)),
  • A qualified employee annuity plan,
  • A tax-sheltered annuity plan (403(b) plan), or
  • An eligible state or local government section 457 deferred compensation plan (to the extent that any distribution is attributable to amounts the plan received in a direct transfer or rollover from one of the other plans listed here or an IRA).

5% rate on certain early distributions from deferred annuity contracts. If an early withdrawal from a deferred annuity is otherwise subject to the 10% additional tax, a 5% rate may apply instead. A 5% rate applies to distributions under a written election providing a specific schedule for the distribution of your interest in the contract if, as of March 1, 1986, you had begun receiving payments under the election. On line 4 of Form 5329, multiply the line 3 amount by 5% instead of 10%. Attach an explanation to your return.

Exceptions to tax. Certain early distributions are excepted from the early distribution tax. If the payer knows that an exception applies to your early distribution, distribution code “2,” “3,” or “4” should be shown in box 7 of your Form 1099-R and you do not have to report the distribution on Form 5329. If an exception applies but distribution code “1” (early distribution, no known exception) is shown in box 7, you must file Form 5329. Enter the taxable amount of the distribution shown in box 2a of your Form 1099-R on line 1 of Form 5329. On line 2, enter the amount that can be excluded and the exception number shown in the Form 5329 instructions.
If distribution code “1” is incorrectly shown on your Form 1099-R for a distribution received when you were age 59½ or older, include that distribution on Form 5329. Enter exception number “12” on line 2.
General exceptions. The tax does not apply to distributions that are:
  • Made as part of a series of substantially equal periodic payments (made at least annually) for your life (or life expectancy) or the joint lives (or joint life expectancies) of you and your designated beneficiary (if from a qualified retirement plan, the payments must begin after separation from service). See Substantially equal periodic payments, later,
  • Made because you are totally and permanently disabled, or
  • Made on or after the death of the plan participant or contract holder.


Additional exceptions for qualified retirement plans. The tax does not apply to distributions that are:
  • From a qualified retirement plan (other than an IRA) after your separation from service in or after the year you reached age 55 (age 50 for qualified public safety employees),
  • From a qualified retirement plan (other than an IRA) to an alternate payee under a qualified domestic relations order,
  • From a qualified retirement plan to the extent you have deductible medical expenses (medical expenses that exceed 7.5% of your adjusted gross income), whether or not you itemize your deductions for the year,
  • From an employer plan under a written election that provides a specific schedule for distribution of your entire interest if, as of March 1, 1986, you had separated from service and had begun receiving payments under the election,
  • From an employee stock ownership plan for dividends on employer securities held by the plan,
  • From a qualified retirement plan due to an IRS levy of the plan, or
  • From elective deferral accounts under 401(k) or 403(b) plans, or similar arrangements, that are qualified reservist distributions.
This is the portion of Publication 575 that outlines the exceptions to the additional tax. Unfortuanately, the Central States and now UPS plan does not fall into the first catagory of exceptions, but does fall into this catagory:

Additional exceptions for qualified retirement plans. The tax does not apply to distributions that are:
  • From a qualified retirement plan (other than an IRA) after your separation from service in or after the year you reached age 55 (age 50 for qualified public safety employees),
As for my wife, she has been a licensed CPA in two states for 30 years, works for a large tax research corporation that provides tax research services for CPAs, attorneys and tax professionals.

I would not recommend anyone sign those retirement papers if they aren't in the year they turn 55 unless they have consulted with a licensed CPA, or the Internal Revenue Service for a professional opinion.

Don't believe me, retirement is an important thing, go to a licensed professional or tax attorney. As for me, I'll be 55 in 2010, hmmmm...that's 5 months. :)
 
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