Zero tolerance

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
You can thank women for that. I'm not, nor have I ever been, a good-looking person. While I most certainly do not have the expectation that women should be attracted to me, it's always amazed me how often they'll complain if I give them a compliment ('How was Florida? I like your tan.') yet giggle in delight if a good-looking stranger inapproperately touches them. People should accept compliments, not create a filter of who they're acceptable from.
Beauty, is only important in your 30s,and younger. By then if someone has a brain and a heart, that is when you see the beauty in a person for their minds, acts, words, and character.
If you told me I had a nice tan, I woulda hugged ya.
 
That's not quite accurate. If two people are having a mutual conversation, and a third party overhears it and gets offended, it's sexual harassment. It's also sexual harassment if you repeat something. If I tell you I had sex with 100 women, and you spread that fact around, per law I'm being sexually harassesd.

Part if the problem is people confusing " offended" and "harassed ".

In the overhearing two people talking and the subject may be found offensive it should be handled differently than a person saying something directly,and repeatedly, which would be more along the definition of harassment. And "offended" is a BROAD, BROAD, brush to paint with. Do we handle someone who offends by saying a curse word in public the same as someone who touts any other hot subject in public?
 

PiedmontSteward

RTW-4-Less
I guess my only question that remains...if I am able to produce some facebook chatter, to prove that we did have a mutual friendship, or something to that extent, do I have a fighting chance? My family thinks I should lawyer up but isn't that why I pay $50 a month to the Union Hall? Are these types of terminations overturned? Everything was mutual, conversations at break, her telling me her financial and marital woes etc. I always just wanted to be a listener and an encourager, not once was a word (uncomfortable) used or else I would've backed the heck away from day 1

I might be mistaken, but I doubt Facebook chatter is suitable evidence. No disrespect, but I've also got a hunch you're not telling the whole story. In my experience as a steward, the harassment has to be fairly blatant to result in an on-the-spot termination; then again, it depends on how far the harassee wants to push it. Usually, if someone crosses a line, the company sits them down and explains the policy, has them sign it again, and lets them know this is the last conversation they will have about sexual harassment.

I do not recommend you contact this woman at all. I don't see the termination sticking, but you should be extremely careful after you come back.
 

raceanoncr

Well-Known Member
Not to keep probing for details here but will say this AGAIN!

To the OP, if you are faced with disciplinary action, in your case termination, you file a grievance (well, along with unemloyment) for wrongful termination.

When disciplinary action is taken by the company, THE BURDEN OF PROOF is on the COMPANY.

Have your steward, BA and you too, treat it like a court case, because it really is. You have a right to know your accusers, witnesses and proof the company supposedly has.

Do not take it lightly. Do YOUR homework as well. Talk to others that were alledged witnesses to this act. I'm not saying, by law, it's not considered a wrong act. Just talk to others that witnessed it or past occurances.

And DO NOT take every, single piece of advice on here. Why? Because you're going to get thousands of different pieces of advice. Pick out what seems reasonable and correct and run it by your BA. Case in point? Watch the flack I'll get over this.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
Part if the problem is people confusing " offended" and "harassed ".

In the overhearing two people talking and the subject may be found offensive it should be handled differently than a person saying something directly,and repeatedly, which would be more along the definition of harassment. And "offended" is a BROAD, BROAD, brush to paint with. Do we handle someone who offends by saying a curse word in public the same as someone who touts any other hot subject in public?

I agree there's much ambiguity, but as far as the law is concerned "offended" and "harassed" is similar. Nonetheless, per law, sexual harassment must be constant or severe enough to create a hostile work enviroment. So if you were to ask me what my plans were for the weekend, and I were to tell you I was hanging out with my left hand, and it was a one-time comment, per law, it doesn't qualify as sexual harassment. HOWEVER... UPS has a zero-tolerance policy, and it's sufficient to warrant discipline.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
I might be mistaken, but I doubt Facebook chatter is suitable evidence. No disrespect, but I've also got a hunch you're not telling the whole story. In my experience as a steward, the harassment has to be fairly blatant to result in an on-the-spot termination; then again, it depends on how far the harassee wants to push it. Usually, if someone crosses a line, the company sits them down and explains the policy, has them sign it again, and lets them know this is the last conversation they will have about sexual harassment.

I do not recommend you contact this woman at all. I don't see the termination sticking, but you should be extremely careful after you come back.

I agree, there's probably more to this story. She may have fealt for awhile that the OP had interest in her, but the OP didn't pick up on this even if he didn't, and when he hugged her she fealt he crossed a line. But there's also a lot of cuckoos working for UPS. I once worked alongside a girl who talked endlessly about her children. I wasn't interested, but would engage in small talk to keep the peace. One day I was hauled in the office and read a statement like "on August 5, Bagels asked me about my son first day of Kindergarten. It's none of Bagels's business, and I fear he's stalking me" ... she had a laundry list that stretched several months -- she made it appear that I saught her out just to ask her these questions when in reality she was working side-by-side with me, talking endlessly about her kids, back-to-school shopping, etc. and I was making minor small talk. I was pulled from service over this, although I was returned to work after one week because labor said without any priors on my record, or statements backing her up, it wasn't sufficient to warrant termination. When I returned to work, she started talking about her kids AGAIN to me. I cut her off and said something like "I can't fully concentrate on my work when I'm talking" -- and she tried writing a statement again saying I was harassing her.

Several years later, I was fired for sexual harassment which I detailed earlier. I work in a building with nearly 400 people on Preload, and there's only two people I talk to. Period. I'm here for a paycheck, nothing more, nothing less.
 
From what I've picked up around our building it depends on how it is said to warrant the action in response. Saying something in general will get you a "Watch what you say in public" talk. Saying something directly to someone wil get dealt with more severely.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
From what I've picked up around our building it depends on how it is said to warrant the action in response. Saying something in general will get you a "Watch what you say in public" talk. Saying something directly to someone wil get dealt with more severely.

I'm guessing standards in CACH, a place where UPS can never get enough help, aren't the same as standards in places like Detroit, a place with high unemployment.

I'd like to think that reputation & sincerity would play a role, but we have some drama kings/queens that are always hauling people in the office. You'd think after awhile management would realize what the real problem is but alas, that's giving them too much credit...
 

gingerkat

Well-Known Member
You can thank women for that. I'm not, nor have I ever been, a good-looking person. While I most certainly do not have the expectation that women should be attracted to me, it's always amazed me how often they'll complain if I give them a compliment ('How was Florida? I like your tan.') yet giggle in delight if a good-looking stranger inapproperately touches them. People should accept compliments, not create a filter of who they're acceptable from.
I agree to a point. Yes, some women are like that. BUT, men can take it too far as well. I'm a woman that takes a compliment gladly from anyone, no matter what he/she looks like. The day compliments stop is the day it's time for a surgeon to help me out. At my age, I thank my lucky stars that I still get hit on.

I love to joke around and very rarely get offended. The thing is, some guys will take my kindness and lack of offense as an opportunity to take it a step further. I don't like being lunged at for a touch, hug or a kiss. So getting a "compliment" can be a very tricky thing, especially from someone you know.
 

FAVREFAN

Well-Known Member
Pretty soon, hand shakes will be considered unapropriate touching.
Step back for a second, forget what you read in this thread.
We now live in a country where you can't hug someone without the chance of losing your job. Even if both parties agree. Wow.
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
Yes at my age I also am happy for a compliment.
I never get offended because if its from someone I know , I can handle it myself.
I dont care who likes me or doesnt, I dont have time for that in my life. If for some reason, I felt threatened, like he would wait for me in the parking lot, or follow me around, yes I would get help. I go to work to make money not friends, if I get friends from it I am blessed. I have enough friends.
On the other hand, I love people. If I hear a newbie say or do something wrong, I will tell them. I have nothing to lose. I did it with a driver one time who hit on anything with female parts. he took an air for me one day and the next day the woman told me, what he said to her, and that he found out where she lived, and she saw him in the parking lot on the weekend.
And then confronted her.

I told him on Monday, and I didnt sugar coat it.
I told her I think hes harmless just lonely. I think he actually thinks a woman would take this as a compliment. I will talk to him today, if you see him again, report him. But please let me talk to him first. And then gave her my mgrs number.

He acted like I was crazy.
He thought she was pretty and wanted to ask her out. I told him thats not how you ask someone out. As a female I know that fer sure. If you want to ask her out, then you are in the wrong job. If you see her at a nightclub, fine, ask her out. Your job at UPS is not matchmakers.com, and you are so close to getting called on it and it wont be the first time, and you will be gone.
I know sveral people on here have found their soul mates at work, and thats wonderful. But you have to know how to do it, and your friendliness can be accepted in different ways. Especially now. And take it outside of the workplace to confirm it.
 

sortaisle

Livin the cardboard dream
Are we to the point that our jobs are at risk right away rather than simply ask them not to touch you in the future? There was no graduated process here at all. Just a hug and the Donald Trump tagline. I suppose it's easier and better to have someone else's life and the ones that depend on them ruined though.
 
S

serenity now

Guest
I agree to a point. Yes, some women are like that. BUT, men can take it too far as well. I'm a woman that takes a compliment gladly from anyone, no matter what he/she looks like. The day compliments stop is the day it's time for a surgeon to help me out. At my age, I thank my lucky stars that I still get hit on.

I love to joke around and very rarely get offended. The thing is, some guys will take my kindness and lack of offense as an opportunity to take it a step further. I don't like being lunged at for a touch, hug or a kiss. So getting a "compliment" can be a very tricky thing, especially from someone you know.

i would never lunge * i would just hold out my arms, give you a $1,000,000 smile, and let you come to me, just like a moth to a flame * :wink2:
 

anonymous4

Well-Known Member
A lot of guys don't know they are creepy to women, and perhaps just being tolerated, not embraced. There are a few men here who ask for hugs and make sexual comments towards women. They are tolerated but there is an eye roll attached. It might be time to come to terms with who you are OP.
creep.gif
 
:happy-very:Well the good news is...I was contacted by the Union Hall...I have a hearing set for tomorrow even though the business managers are in Florida, they are going to do it by phone conference...I have been told I just need to show up, explain in detail what happened and take this as a learning experience. Not sure if I will make it to Integrad on Sunday yet or not but if not I can go in April...at least Chicago will be warmer then
 

PiedmontSteward

RTW-4-Less
:happy-very:Well the good news is...I was contacted by the Union Hall...I have a hearing set for tomorrow even though the business managers are in Florida, they are going to do it by phone conference...I have been told I just need to show up, explain in detail what happened and take this as a learning experience. Not sure if I will make it to Integrad on Sunday yet or not but if not I can go in April...at least Chicago will be warmer then

Sounds like you should be good to go, although nothing is guaranteed.

Here's some advice, glean from it what you will: There's a fairly attractive lady that works next to me; she flirts with me constantly, even occasionally plays a bit of grab ass. It doesn't bother me and I don't reciprocate. Why? I don't **** where I eat and my girlfriend is way hotter. Also, she's a scab and I don't want any on me.

:peaceful:
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Sounds like you should be good to go, although nothing is guaranteed.

Here's some advice, glean from it what you will: There's a fairly attractive lady that works next to me; she flirts with me constantly, even occasionally plays a bit of grab ass. It doesn't bother me and I don't reciprocate. Why? I don't **** where I eat and my girlfriend is way hotter. Also, she's a scab and I don't want any on me.

:peaceful:
Some day she will be in a bad mood thinking about all that flirting she does with you, and you never respond. And she will report YOU for sexual harassment for all those times you rubbed your ass against her hand.
Smart move would be to report this now. First one who reports is the "victim".
 
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