moreluck
golden ticket member
I really think pleasure and Nancy do not compute!!!
Zimmerman case - Found Not Guilty
- Thread starter moreluck
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I had a Nancy once and could not disagree with you more.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
That's not a nice thing to say about klein.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
[h=1]Drop George Zimmerman’s murder charge[/h][h=3]By Alan Dershowitz[/h]
A medical report by George Zimmerman’s doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting. If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.
There is, of course, no assurance that the special prosecutor handling the case, State Attorney Angela Corey, will do the right thing. Because until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful and professional.
She was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. The New York Times has reported that the police had “a full face picture” of Zimmerman, before paramedics treated him, that showed “a bloodied nose.” The prosecutor also had photographic evidence of bruises to the back of his head.
A medical report by George Zimmerman’s doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting. If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.
There is, of course, no assurance that the special prosecutor handling the case, State Attorney Angela Corey, will do the right thing. Because until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful and professional.
She was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. The New York Times has reported that the police had “a full face picture” of Zimmerman, before paramedics treated him, that showed “a bloodied nose.” The prosecutor also had photographic evidence of bruises to the back of his head.
But none of this was included in any affidavit.
Now there is much more extensive medical evidence that would tend to support Zimmerman’s version of events. This version, if true, would establish self-defense even if Zimmerman had improperly followed, harassed and provoked Martin.
Now there is much more extensive medical evidence that would tend to support Zimmerman’s version of events. This version, if true, would establish self-defense even if Zimmerman had improperly followed, harassed and provoked Martin.
Thus, if Zimmerman verbally provoked Martin, but Martin then got on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the ground, broke his nose, bloodied his eyes and persisted in attacking Zimmerman — and if Zimmerman couldn’t protect himself from further attack except by shooting Martin — he would have the right to do that. (The prosecution has already admitted that it has no evidence that Zimmerman started the actual fight.)
Add to that the cries of "Help" that witnesses heard. Many cries of help. Zimmerman did not just shoot his attacker, he tried to get help. After his head had been bashed against the ground several times with no-one responding to his cries for help, he had to have been in real fear of this guy killing him. At that point, he had to shoot his attacker or end up dead.
mho
mho
How about adding that witnesses talk about zimmerman like this:
A multitude of evidence has been released in the case of slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin, including police reports that contain statements from witnesses to the encounter between the young man and George Zimmerman. It was revealed Friday that one witness told police she believed Zimmerman wanted Martin “to die.”
According to ABC News, the woman, only identified as witness 5, told investigators “I do honestly feel that he (Zimmerman) intended for this kid (Martin) to die... If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17 year old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him... I think the kid was running for help.”
Witness: George Zimmerman wanted Trayvon Martin 'to die' - National Crime | Examiner.com
There goes your self defense claims.
Peace
TOS
A multitude of evidence has been released in the case of slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin, including police reports that contain statements from witnesses to the encounter between the young man and George Zimmerman. It was revealed Friday that one witness told police she believed Zimmerman wanted Martin “to die.”
According to ABC News, the woman, only identified as witness 5, told investigators “I do honestly feel that he (Zimmerman) intended for this kid (Martin) to die... If you're in self defense, shoot him in the leg. He's a 17 year old, scrawny little kid. You get into a physical fight with him... I think the kid was running for help.”
Witness: George Zimmerman wanted Trayvon Martin 'to die' - National Crime | Examiner.com
There goes your self defense claims.
Peace
TOS
Not really. You selectively used one witness who said "I think" or "I felt" or "I thought". Aint going to mean a thing in court.
How 'bout this:
According to ABC, the newly released documents indicate that “Zimmerman is heard yelling for help 14 times on the 911 call recorded during the fight.”
Witnesses, police reports may support Zimmerman claims in Trayvon Martin killing - National Crime | Examiner.com
How long did Mr Zimmerman try to get help before he had to save his own life? 14 times he yelled for help. Finally, he has to believe the guy smashing his head against the ground is meaning to kill him.
Self defense.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
...but had he simply left Trayvon alone none of this would have happened...
Well, obviously had Zimmerman followed the dispatchers advice, none of this would have happened.
But I DISAGREE that he HAD to follow that advice. He had every right to walk down the road.
But at the point where his head was being smashed against the road, and he was in fear of being killed, he had every right to defend himself.
But I DISAGREE that he HAD to follow that advice. He had every right to walk down the road.
But at the point where his head was being smashed against the road, and he was in fear of being killed, he had every right to defend himself.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that you believe GZ to be the only victim in this tragedy?
At what point do you accept that TRAYVON also had a right to walk down the street UNACCOSTED, and once confronted by zimmerman holding a gun, had the right to defend HIMSELF?
Where do you accept that TRAYVON had clear civil rights protected by our constitution?
Where do you say that Zimmerman, had no right to follow, pursue or apprehend TRAYVON?
Peace
TOS
Or that trayvon had no right to stand his ground? Remember we don't know the facts yet. Could be that GZ was the agressor and bit off more than he could chew. Of course that is easy to do when you have a gun in your waist band.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
There is no question that GZ was a vigilante who, if it weren't for the gun, may be the one in the casket instead of Trayvon.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I ask myself the question could Zimmerman have pulled the gun on Trayvon as he approached and in an act of self defense on his own, Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and then by accident or intent Zimmerman pulled the trigger? The only eye witness we have to clarify this is Zimmerman so it comes down to believability. The one account I read (and I agree there are many having been reported) stated that Zimmerman claimed to be by his vehicle waiting for police when Trayvon approached him and yet the site of the shooting was not near Zimmerman's truck. I'll await as the process proceeds to see if this is either cleared up with actual facts or there is a reason why it was said Trayvon approached Zimmerman at his truck and the shooting was between houses away from said truck.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I have a feeling GZ followed Trayvon to the house where he was staying and turned around when Trayvon was inside. Trayvon then came back out, jumped GZ from behind, they fought, GZ was getting his ass kicked and shot Trayvon point blank in "self defense".
Except for the vigilante part (who knows?), I agree with this. I think Trayvon would have kept smashing Mr Zimmermans head to the ground until he was dead.
Thank you.
YW. I think we can all agree on that.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
GZ may very well be acquitted of the crime for which he is charged, simply by virtue of the fact that there may not be enough evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
While that may in fact be the correct verdict from a criminal justice point of view, what cannot be disputed is that GZ broke a cardinal rule of legal civilian concealed carry by getting out of his vehicle and exposing himself to danger. If his own version of the story is true, he knowingly put himself into a bad situation and had to resort to lethal force to get out of it.
Based upon what I have seen, I dont think GZ set out to kill anyone in cold blood that night. I think he just took the neighborhood watchman routine a bit too far, ignored the advice of the police dispatcher, and wound up making a horrible mistake.
Civilians with carry permits are NOT cops and we should NOT go looking for trouble or taking the law into our own hands. As permit holders (I have one) we have a moral obligation to go out of our way to avoid conflict and de-escalate confrontations by any means necessary. That includes swallowing our pride, tolerating verbal abuse, apologizing even when we are not in the wrong, and even letting non-violent property criminals run away rather than attempting to arrest them ourselves. If I witnessed a crime I might consider making a citizens arrest if I was unarmed; if armed, however, then attempting such an arrest creates the risk of the arrestee gaining access to my firearm and that is too great of a chance to take.
While that may in fact be the correct verdict from a criminal justice point of view, what cannot be disputed is that GZ broke a cardinal rule of legal civilian concealed carry by getting out of his vehicle and exposing himself to danger. If his own version of the story is true, he knowingly put himself into a bad situation and had to resort to lethal force to get out of it.
Based upon what I have seen, I dont think GZ set out to kill anyone in cold blood that night. I think he just took the neighborhood watchman routine a bit too far, ignored the advice of the police dispatcher, and wound up making a horrible mistake.
Civilians with carry permits are NOT cops and we should NOT go looking for trouble or taking the law into our own hands. As permit holders (I have one) we have a moral obligation to go out of our way to avoid conflict and de-escalate confrontations by any means necessary. That includes swallowing our pride, tolerating verbal abuse, apologizing even when we are not in the wrong, and even letting non-violent property criminals run away rather than attempting to arrest them ourselves. If I witnessed a crime I might consider making a citizens arrest if I was unarmed; if armed, however, then attempting such an arrest creates the risk of the arrestee gaining access to my firearm and that is too great of a chance to take.
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