Question

Your not answering the question, does your local sort work the same number of people each day regardless of the volume?

<font color="0000ff">I have already answered that.....</font>

<font color="ff0000">"We have 9 people on our shift (unloader, splitter, 2 loaders, smalls, clerk, 2 car washers, clerk). We are usually one man short because one guy is a driver sometimes so we are usually stuck with 8 people"</font>.

<font color="0000ff">UPS talks allot about safety and puts allot of time and money into comming up with what they think is clever and usefull programs but doesnt "walk the walk" as far as all that is concerned. Nothing actually gets done but I guess as long as we have a monthly meeting or a bunch of PCMs about it then I guess they think there job is done. I guess as long as management force feeds us a spoon full of acronyms such as CHSP then its all goood. Acronyms seem to be a trade mark of UPS managment these days. It takes more than reading us acronyms and more than the hourlys working more safely because when there is unsafe equipment envolved then "production" slows down or someone is getting hurt. Or even both. Maybe managment should figure that into their little equations so they won't be so shocked when they see their belts stopping and when they have to call in injurys that could have been avoided if they would just have spent UPS money on working conditions or equipment instead of going out and "aquiring" more businesses. I think that if they actually practiced what they preached about safety then their profits would benefit simply because there would be less injuries across the board. </font>

All the Saftey crap was forced on UPS, thats why i dont take it seriously, they should have been doing this at day 1. A lot of CHSP people quit because its bullsh*t. All they care about is getting the packages processed at a certain time. Our building is already over the six(6) injuries for the year allowed too...

At UPS we'll do anything to improve our overall safety (unless we have to spend money to do it).

Take a walk around a UPS building. Ask how many drivers are getting treatment for severe tendonitis because for YEARS UPS threw away safety to save $18 on package cars by deleting power steering. Do you know how hard it is to steer a large vehicle without power steering all day? Do you know how easy it would be to retrofit these cars with power steering? (Oh, but then we'd have to spend money).

No one else (DHL, Fedex, Airborne) uses vehicles without power steering.

Just another example to add to 480 s.

Over9.5;

Where'd you get the $18 figure? Oh, yes, it came from a dark place.

CHSP committees can be effective or not, no surprise. The most effective ones are those with active non-management members and management teams that support them.

Question...do you think the biggest cause of injuries is equipment? If you answered yes, you're wrong. It's BEHAVIORS. People not following proper methods and procedures, like bending legs when lifting.

Wait, before you chime in that you are worked too hard to do the job right... in 25 years with UPS, hourly and management, I have never had ANYONE show me that they could not do the standard job required at UPS while following methods. Many folks tried to demonstrate sloth and even most of them could do the job using proper methods.

One problem for safety and performance is that a lot of people think they know how to do the job and they don't. This goes for mgt and hourly.

Whats:
"Where'd you get the $18 figure? " I made it up. Lets say it was $500 (but I still think it was closer to $18). How much money do you think Liberty Mutual (courtesy of UPS) pays for each driver suffering from elbow or shoulder pain caused by steering a large vehicle without power steering to go see the doctor, get medication, physical therapy, etc? Thousands. And then if they decide on surgery? All that money to save $500.

"do you think the biggest cause of injuries is equipment?" No, of course not. I made a specific example in my post.

"Wait, before you chime in that you are worked too hard to do the job right... " I never said that. If you read my post, it specifically relates to turning the steering wheel, NOT working too hard, sloth, or using proper methods.

I also said it was just another example to add to 480's.

Whatsthetune, Did you even read my post? After the $18 question, I wasnt even sure if you were responding to me or someone else.

When you look in the mirror each morning, you are looking at the person responsible for your safety.

Those who think their employer is responsible are wrong. People have worked in conditions much worse than we have in other industries, and have very good safety records. That is because they work hard not to get hurt and still perform at the levels their employers expect them to.

I have hurt myself on the job three times in my 20+ years at UPS. When I think about those injuries, I realize that I wasn't following methods or my safety training.

Don't blame Brown....blame the person repsonsible for your safety!

<font color="0000ff">No I blame "Brown". Its their fault we still use dangerous equipment. There is no safe methods that will help change that. You can bend at the knees and lift with your legs until you are blue in the face but it doesnt help a bit when portable rollers are being thrown together to sometimes appear like the work from the "A TEAM" and they fall apart. Its not our fault that other rollers in the building are so old they can't support the weight of more than a few heavy packages and usually send them crashing back towards the person unloading. That happens to me all the time and I almost broke a finger the other night as a result of it. Its quite clear that those CHSP programs and such only work for basic jobs such as loading and unloading but don't help at all with equipment issus. Its also clear that managment thinks they are in the clear by inforcing such programs and don't think its necessary to address the equipment issue because all they have to do when an accident happens is blame the hourlys, like for everything else, and just say "We told you so" and "Thats what CHSP is there for". </font>

Upslocal480, I gave you a stong business case for resolving your roller problem. Start being part of the solution. UPS has been successful due good people, both hourly and management. Do you want to be one of those people? If all you can do is fan the flames on a message board, do you feel that resolves your real life issue?

"No I blame "Brown". Its their fault we still use dangerous equipment. There is no safe methods that will help change that."

Now your getting closer to the truth. The fact is from the first day you've posted to this board you have shown an affinity to be a UPS hater and whiner. No one will ever make you happy at UPS. You will always blame them for any and all shortcomings you posess. Stop your whining and grow up or go to a company you do feel meets your pampered needs. Us men have a job to do and don't need any whining wusses getting in the way.

<font color="0000ff">Tie Guy....You are a joke. Classic cold hearted supervisor with the ignorant "if you don't like it go elswhere" attitude. Only a fool would accuse someone of stating a legit claim such as work place safety as being a whiner. Its people like you that dont give a crap about what goes on in the workplace that ruin it and its people like you that make things the way they are. I bet you are one of those people that says stupid comments like "oh well life isnt fair". WRONG! Life is what we make of it and a safer workplace is a fixable problem but I guess we all just need to stick out our chests and be men and except the fact that getting hurt is just part of the job huh? There are two types of people at UPS. The ones that "whine" and the ones that are responsible for why those people are whining. I'm not sorry that my posts don't satisfy your reading pleasure and not sorry that my life at UPS isn't perfect like yours is. I have every right to "whine" about safety and monetary concerns. Monday I will go to work and ask for an additional pay cut and wear sandles while I unload and just let the fualty equipment send packages crashing into my knee caps. And when my supervisor asks me why I've wore sandles and crushed all my toes and why I've taken another pay cut and why my knee caps are busted.... I'll just reply..."Oh I'm just trying to be one of the men and us men have a job to do" and appoligize for being foolish enough to ever have whined about safety and getting a pay cut.</font>

(Message edited by upslocal480 on October 20, 2002)

<font color="ff0000">Upslocal480, I gave you a stong business case for resolving your roller problem. Start being part of the solution. UPS has been successful due good people, both hourly and management. Do you want to be one of those people? If all you can do is fan the flames on a message board, do you feel that resolves your real life issue?

</font><font color="0000ff">UPSCorpis. Thanks for not resorting to Tieguy tactics when responding. I, and others on the shift, have suggested new rollers MANY MANY times. We've been doing it for over a year. I've also pointed out the fact that production is slower by using those rollers and also for other reasons. I "fan the flames" on this board simply because its a UPS Board and with the hope that someone thats been through a similiar situation might be of some help. Also because....well...simply because this is a message board for UPS and this is one of the many things we talk about on here. Its a shame people like Tieguy have to act like pricks because they don't have a good suggestion or because they simply don't agree. I hate responding in the way I do sometimes but I think everyone gets pissed off sometimes. I think the best example of me mentioning one set of rollers we have was just last week when I showed my supervisor my smashed bloody finger. What else should we have to do here to get something done about it? I guess I'm waisting my time asking because I'm sure I'll just be called a whiner again..lol. You seem more calm and intelligent than a couple of others and seem to be able to disagree without being a butt-hole so I'll just ask you....what do you suggest we do? </font>

(Message edited by upslocal480 on October 20, 2002)

upslocal480,
I'm not totally familiar with your roller situation but if you're talking about Roller sections ie gravity rollers I might offer a suggestion. If you are currently using the T-stand type yes they are worthless, dangerous and over the long haul less cost effective.

Have your local management contact your District PE folks about getting some Hytrol Roller Sections with H-Stands. They can be obtained in aluminum for lighter weight but the H-stand design offers a much safer conveyor and more cost effective longer term. The H-Stand gives far greater stability which covers the safety part but the old T-stands were also less cost effective because the stands needed constant maintenance and from year to year stands were being lost and new ones continuously purchased. The H-Stand legs are permanently attached to roller section and you can remove one bolt and the legs fold under the roller section for easy storage. (Peak Season only roller sections) There is even a place to store the locking bolt so you'll have that every time. Also get the 1.9 inch diameter roller with the minimum conveyor width of 24 inches. (JMO) If the package handling at your location is good get the aluminum rollers to save weight but if this is not the case get the steel rollers because they will hold up better longterm. Also specify sealed, greased packed bearings for the rollers (should be standard anyway). If exposed to the weather make sure you get galvanized conveyors.

I've found this setup to not only answer the safety question but for those $$$$$ wise management types it answers the cost effective part also. Hope this helps.

Conveyors and Drives is an Industrial Supplyhouse who carries Hytrol.

Hytrol is at: http://www.hytrol.com/

Conveyors and Drives: http://www.condrivesonline.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv

WW Grainger carries Ashland Conveyors: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml

Ashland Conveyors at: http://www.ashlandconveyor.com/selectskatewheel.htm

480 - I agree with the others....you can be a part of the solution rather than just blaming Brown.





When I was a part-timer, and we had equipment problems, we wrote them up on a Daily Equipment Condition Report until they got fixed. "We" being the hourly employees that had to use that equipment. The mechanics get a copy of it, and get the problem fixed. It helps when you write it up as a safety related problem. And lastly, write it up every day....this drives the PE guys nuts!

"480 - I agree with the others....you can be a part of the solution rather than just blaming Brown."

Why do you guys keep saying that? He says hes been complaining about this to his supervisor for a year. If his supervisor doesnt have the guts to demand some safe rollers for his workers, 480 has nowhere to go. Hes just a loader. Hes more likely to get himself fired by continuing to ask (complain) for safe equipment.

I think my supervisor would get me the safe equipment, but 480s supervisor wont and 480s at a dead end.

"Tie Guy....You are a joke. Classic cold hearted supervisor with the ignorant"

I suppose you could say I gave you what your daddy should have a good but beating. Grow up and stop finding reasons to whine.You can always find reasons to be unhappy if you want to and you definitely want to.

<font color="ff0000">480 - "I agree with the others....you can be a part of the solution rather than just blaming Brown.

When I was a part-timer, and we had equipment problems, we wrote them up on a Daily Equipment Condition Report until they got fixed. "We" being the hourly employees that had to use that equipment. The mechanics get a copy of it, and get the problem fixed. It helps when you write it up as a safety related problem. And lastly, write it up every day....this drives the PE guys nuts!" </font>



<font color="0000ff">Wow! Someone can actually disagree with someone yet not be an ass about it and actually give a good suggestion! "Daily Equipment Condition Report" How do I go about doing that each day? I've never heard of that. I'm glad someone has the maturity and intelligence to help a guy out instead of being a prick. With this info I guess I can finally at least try and be part of the solution now. I did feel like I was at a dead end like Over9five mentioned. People like TieGuy are part of the problem cause they don't don't anything about it and instead just spout "us men have a jobs to do" slogins and claims those as giving "butt beatings". </font>

<font color="ff0000">"I suppose you could say I gave you what your daddy should have a good but beating. Grow up and stop finding reasons to whine.You can always find reasons to be unhappy if you want to and you definitely want to."</font>

<font color="0000ff">People like you are the ones that make people whine. You just look the other way and claim all the fixable and legit problems at UPS as normal and tell people to grow up that confront that issue.

wkmac...We use the standard lightweight rollers and use jack stands from the package car shop to support the end up that goes in the trailer. The other end just sits on the edge of the belt. Not very secure though. If there is enough skids it requires two rollers that connect to each other. None of our roller connect. We have to sit on on top of the other and it usually screws up and falls. We really just need new rollers that connect and one of the HS supports. Because your help and proups we might be able to get this crap taken care of. Thanks allot. Its good to have guys like you two to help. Thats why I "whine" about these things. I will be mentioning these things Monday at work. I doubt anything will be done the first 30 times we mention it but at least we'll be doing the right thing. OH WAIT! I can't do that because then I'd just still be whining and will be told "If you don't like it then go somewhere else" and be told to grow up. LOL. Thanks for your help.</font>

"People like TieGuy are part of the problem cause they don't don't anything about it and instead just spout "us men have a jobs to do" slogins and claims those as giving "butt beatings"."

Yep , And its obvious you'll cry for days about your beating. In so doing you prove me right.

Upslocal480, I'm happy to see some positive suggestions also. I understand you can get upset when someone attacks you. I've been through a lot of those wars myself. Experience has taught me to concentrate on the problem at hand and ignore attacks. This will ultimately disarm the attacker (if they're smart) and if not, make them look foolish.

I'm also a little unclear on your setup. If you're unload skids, that means your unloading a flat. Are you saying that you normally just use one set of rollers from trailer to belt, not T-stands and rollers inside the feeder? Wkmac's suggestion about the DECR is another good idea.

I still say you should also take the business case I gave you to your supervisor. Show him/her the math. If they don't listen, show the manager or show the IE folks. We'll keep trying to help as long as you keep trying.

<font color="ff0000">Yep , And its obvious you'll cry for days about your beating. In so doing you prove me right.

</font><font color="0000ff">You have given no one a "beating." If you call making smart ass remarks to someone on a message board a "beating" then you must have gotten allot of real beatings in your life. LOL. Besides...if you are referring to these "beatings" as being some contest or debate then you are more ignorant than I thought. When people ask legit questions or start an equally legit topic you don't agree with then you slander them and then congradulate yourself on your self proclaimed verbal beatings once you realize that your comments, which are related to your personal careless view of how UPS should be, are not getting you anywhere and that they can easily be exposed.</font>

(Message edited by upslocal480 on October 20, 2002)

<font color="ff0000">"I'm also a little unclear on your setup. If you're unload skids, that means your unloading a flat. Are you saying that you normally just use one set of rollers from trailer to belt, not T-stands and rollers inside the feeder? Wkmac's suggestion about the DECR is another good idea."

</font><font color="0000ff">If there are just a couple of skids then we can use the regular pull downs rollers that we use to unload the package cars. They are attached to the side of the belt and we have one on both sides. They are the kind that fold up. You pull them down and they go a few feet into the package car and then extend out about six more feet. We can use those to some extent when we unload the flat bed trailer. We cant unload pups on our shift. We have more than 6 skids we have to get the portable rollers out and sit one end on the edge of the belt and the other goes into the trailer and sits on a jack stand. If there are a bunch of skids than we have to use more jacks to support and extra set of rollers. It can be quite the ordeal. Its so pathetic we just laugh at it sometimes but it sucks when the whole contraption falls.</font>

Now I have the picture. In that situation, we use to put the rollers on the floor of the flat. We'd have the rollers set up so that they ended just at the end of the feeder. One person would take packages from the end of the rollers and just place them on the belt. I've never seen a roller set up that would do that job well. One good thing about that set up I described is the flow of packages is very managable for the loaders on the other end. Another good thing, no tumbling rollers so it's safer. The bad thing is the number of handles. However, based on what I've heard, it wouldn't be any worse from a production perspective. Another option would be to keep the rollers on the floor and have a roller line between the feeder and the belt that isn't so tilted. I'd guess that wouldn't fall as often. Whaddaya think?

Wkmac, are there any new fangled setups out there these days that will do that job? It sounds like the H-stand type you spoke about were more oriented for unloading flats on an unload door without an extendo. In upslocal480's setup, he's unloading to a waist high belt that is perpindicular to the flow of packages out of the feeder. The vertical drop from the feeder to the belt combined with no way to secure the rollers makes it tough.

<font color="0000ff">I dont know man. The only good thing about the way we do it now is that when it does work it is VERY VERY quick but its not always stable. Its actually too quick sometimes and with all the extra weight on the belt it starts sliding off because the package are slamming into it and pushing it to the side. It starts sputtering and slowing down. It would be safer to put it on the floor and have someone grab them and sit them on the belt but that would take forever here. Its a pretty good gap between the side of the dock and the belt. I guess if they would just get us new equipment then we'd be fine. They told us today that we will be getting all of the feeders from now on because the hub has been missing scans. I'm still not sure about why those scans are so important that they would risk the safety of their employees. All they have to do is spend the money and buy us safer equipment. I know they have the cash because we rarely even request our 3.5 guarantee here. Our center is kind of weird. Its like when they designed it they forgot that it would have a reload shift also and only designed it for preload. I'm not even sure if it was intended to be a UPS. They lease the building. Its just a rectanguler building with 3 unload doors at one end that connect to one belt down the middle sitting on a dock. They had to add on to the other end years ago when they starting getting more routes and its just an old ass tractor trailer flatbed with doors cut out along the sides with old metal rollers going down the middle of it. Those trucks sit outside and backed up to the doors. We really need a bigger center that is designed better for unloading and loading both package cars and trailers. Wishfull thinking huh? </font>

Waaaaaaaahhhhh.