Clinton unveils mandatory health care insurance plan

[beatupbrown]

She has my vote !This a shame that USA does not have coverage for all americans.Once you leave UPS health coverage it is a ugly deal for people.Private insurance picks who they want to cover. They make money on not treating pople, that just wrong.Billion dollar b2 bombers and we cannot afford to have insurance for all americans.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/...are/index.html

[traveler]

Originally Posted by beatupbrown

She has my vote !This a shame that USA does not have coverage for all americans.Once you leave UPS health coverage it is a ugly deal for people.Private insurance picks who they want to cover. They make money on not treating pople, that just wrong.Billion dollar b2 bombers and we cannot afford to have insurance for all americans.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/...are/index.html

Sounds wonderful but exactly who do you think will pay for this? That's right, you and me. And we will pay heavily for those who currently don't have insurance. Who will administer this? The government? What program do they now manage that does not have great problems? Social Security? Going broke. Medicare? Going broke and benefits being reduced. Roads and bridges? Need I answer that one after the recent bridge collapse? I could go on and on. Who will enforce the mandatory feature of this plan? The government???

Now to the realism of socialized medicine. Look carefully at Canada where there are waiting lists for common procedures. Look at England where those who pay extra receive good care, those who don't wait and wait for simple things like dentistry.

Be careful what you wish for.

[JohnnyPension]

My mother lives in Holland. They have free health care. She had to wait THREE MONTHS to see a doctor when she hurt her knee and she tells me on a weekly basis of the horror stories of this thing called free health care that her and her friends and family have to face. She had to travel to Belgium (not actually that far from her home) to get some treatment. That was about a year ago. TO THIS DAY she has not had a good care and still suffers. Doctors do not make enough money so the best ones go - guess where?- you got it -here. As bad as it is here the grass is not always greener.....

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

[blue efficacy]

With american health care, so much money is wasted on insurance related costs. Universal health care would be a more efficient use of money. Besides, we are already paying for low wage people's health care anyway.

[moreluck]

I vote for quality !!!!!!!!!! Not cheapness.

[scratch]

$110 billion dollars to start? We don't need the government to mess up more things. We need to get the government out of things like this. Hillary fouled up big time when she tried to push this through back when she was co-president. My wife worked in an ER and was in nursing school then. There is no possible way I would vote for her. She doesn't understand how things really work.

[over9five]

"She has my vote !"

Oh my God, please don't vote for her on that one wasteful issue! She will put the whole country in the poor house.

[beatupbrown]

I hear this argument that every other western country has it wrong .The USA is the only country in the western countries that has it right on national health care. So we are the only ones have it right is joke. I talk to people in Canada in England and they love it .Cut Bush big tax cut is one way to start funding. Cut military spending make Japan and Europe pay for defense .The social security system does a great job getting people check on time. This thinking that government can not do any thing right is BS.WE need to take A look at other western national health care system and do some hybrid of our own. The big money lobbyist of insurance is going to start the BS.
Yes we may have to raise taxes too along with the othe rthings I talked about.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/He...lth_watch.html
There are some good links in this link check them out very in formative.

[moreluck]

No Fat Calves !!

[beatupbrown]

Originally Posted by moreluck

We spend over $4,000 per capita on personal health care, about twice as much as Canada and the European countries (which cover all their citizens),
who is the fat calves?

[scratch]

Originally Posted by beatupbrown

We spend over $4,000 per capita on personal health care, about twice as much as Canada and the European countries (which cover all their citizens),
who is the fat calves?

Canadians and Europeans are taxed at a much higher rate than Americans, with worser health care.

[moreluck]

beatenup......Hillary has fat calves.......haven't you noticed??

[romulus]

KFC is running the Hillary special. Comes with 2 small breasts, fat thighs, and a left wing.

[govols019]

If you want socialized health care then move.

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by beatupbrown

She has my vote !

You may want to reconsider:

“Where is the g*dd*mn f*cking flag? I want the g*dd*mn f*cking flag up every f*cking morning at f*cking sunrise.”
Said by the First Lady of Arkansas to her staff at the Arkansas governor’s mansion on Labor Day, 1991. (http://www.amazon.com/Inside-White-House-Ronald-Kessler/dp/0671879197/sr=8-1/qid=1172302216/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8047214-6159820?ie=UTF8&s=books, p. 244).

“F*ck off! It’s enough that I have to see you *****-kickers every day. I’m not going to talk to you, too. Just do your g*dd*mn job and keep your mouth shut.”
Said to her Arkansas state trooper bodyguards, after one of them deigned to greet her with “good morning.” (http://www.amazon.com/American-Evita-Hillary-Clintons-Power/dp/0060562552/sr=8-1/qid=1172286828/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8047214-6159820?ie=UTF8&s=books, p. 90)

“[You] f*cking idiot.”
To a state trooper who was driving her to an event. (Crossfire, p. 84). Describing Hillary’s general personality, Larry Gleghorn, a former state trooper, said: “She was a #itch day in and day out” (http://www.amazon.com/First-Partner-Hillary-Rodham-Clinton/dp/0688177727/sr=1-1/qid=1172288399/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8047214-6159820?ie=UTF8&s=books, p. 119).

“If you want to remain on this detail, get your f*cking ass over here and grab those bags.”
Hillary gave this order to a Secret Service agent who wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident (as he was trained to do.) (Hardball, 08/01, quoted on Newsmax.com, 07/17/01).

“What the f*ck are you doing up there? You get back here right away.”
On the phone chastising Bill because he had floated a health care reform proposal that differed from hers (http://www.amazon.com/Survivor-Bill-Clinton-White-House/dp/0375760849/sr=1-1/qid=1172289204/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8047214-6159820?ie=UTF8&s=books, p. 118). As always, one must wonder who elected her, anyway?

“You all remember Mahatma Ghandi. He ran a gas station down in St. Louis.”
Said during a speech at a Democratic fundraiser (CNN, 01/04/04). Senator Clinton was later forced to apologize.

Yes, this is the person I want leading my country. The person that dozens of books have been written about. The one who will be remembered for her words of love, cultivated tastes, beauty, sensitivity, and intelligence, and as one of America's most gracious First Ladies.

“Get f*cked! Get the f*ck out of my way! Get out of my face!”
More comments by Hillary and heard by members of Secret Service details. (http://www.amazon.com/Hillarys-Scheme-Inside-Clintons-Ruthless/dp/1400052955/sr=1-1/qid=1172288513/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-8047214-6159820?ie=UTF8&s=books, p. 89)

[MR_Vengeance]

Originally Posted by beatupbrown

She has my vote !This a shame that USA does not have coverage for all americans.Once you leave UPS health coverage it is a ugly deal for people.Private insurance picks who they want to cover. They make money on not treating pople, that just wrong.Billion dollar b2 bombers and we cannot afford to have insurance for all americans.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/...are/index.html

sounds great on paper but it will never work in this country. There's gonna be alot of people freeload the fruits of our labor........

[brown67]

The way these other countries cut cost is by rationing health care. Think gas shortages of the 70's. That's why you have to wait in line for everything. Average wait to see a family doctor in Canada is 3 weeks. Average wait to see a specialist is 17 weeks. God help you if you are old, because you go to the end of the line. Younger people are put toward the front of the line and the aged are sent to the rear. Why? It's more cost affective. There is such a shortage of doctors in some ares of Canada that they have lotteries to get a family doctor.

In the United States if you go to the VA system you can only get 20% of the drugs on the market. The other 80% are considered too expensive and can't be prescribed. Same thing in most other western countries. Drugs are limited and you can't get many drugs there that we can here.

So what good is free health care if you can't use it.

In Britain and New Zealand the people who have money go out and buy private insurance, and go to private hospitals and doctors. So they get to pay twice for health care. Once in taxes and second in premium's.

[squeekywheel]

Hillary’s latest proposal is just the first step. If implemented, insurance companies would be saddled with more and more regulations until you finally end up with HillaryCare. Most people don’t remember the details but HillaryCare would have had the government dictate what field a doctor had to go into and where they had to practice (Doesn’t sound like a way to get the best and brightest into the field)

Government run healthcare would be delivered with the efficiency of the post office and the compassion of the IRS.

A lot of people blame the insurance companies but the insurance companies fill a vital role: they play gatekeeper. They keep costs down by denying uncovered claims. Do they make mistakes? Sure do! Have I been denied? Yep. Was I happy? No. Do you think insurance companies can be removed? No way. HillaryCare’s ultimate goal is to replace the insurance companies with government (or at least regulate them into doing the government’s work). Who would you rather have controlling your medical fate: a company forced to compete in the marketplace that can be sued or a government agency that doesn’t have to compete and is immune to lawsuits?

Some in the U.S. like to hold Canada’s health care system up as a model. Take an hour on the internet and do some research. Some questions: How many people lack a primary care doctor in Canada? What is the average wait time for common procedures (There is a government sponsored web site that tracts)? What is the average wait time to see a specialist? What drugs are available/covered? How far do you have to travel to get access to specialists or equipment like MRIs or PET scans? Do you get to pick your specialist or is your name tossed on a waiting list and you get whatever surgeon is up next?

Most Americans don’t realize how good they have it now.

[mikeb]

Everyone should watch John Stossel's report on ABC the other nite. To sum up his report, he basically said that socialized med is a disaster. He showed a vet clinic in Canada where the animals get great care and prompt service; contrast that with the human care which is deplorable. One town in Canada had a lottery drawing once a month. The lucky winner got to be a local doctor's patient. Personaly, I think health ins. should be like car insurance. Your car ins. covers only the big stuff. It doesnt cover new spark plugs, air filter, etc., only major damage. The same with health ins. keep a high deductable( $5,000-$10,000) and pay cash for small things(doctors visits, etc). This will keep premiums lower and u think twice before going to the doctor over every little sniffle, therby forcing u to take care of yourself better(quitting smoking,exercising, etc). U are also more likely to shop around for the cheapest price(what a concept), creating competition among docs which in turn reduces costs. A capitalistic free market is great when its allowed to work, but if the govt gets involved it will be a nitemare.

[DS]

I could have quoted a lot of you about what you think about Canadas health care plan .If you are a citizen you get a health card. No cost to you to visit a doctor.No cost if you need surgery unless its cosmetic.
In rural areas it may be hard to find a doctor,but 99% of us live in cities where doctors are quite accessable.If you have a family doctor,you can usually get in the same day or the next,depending on your ailment.Most people just go to "walk in clinics"and yes you have to wait your turn.
My dad had a colostomy when he was around 45. 10 years later he had a double bypass operation.My mom had serious liver problems and basically spent the last year of her life in the hospital.My dad lived to 73 years old thanks to our health care system.I had a hemmoroid operation that made my life at ups a million times more bareable.There is something to be said for government health care,it seems to work .

[brett636]

To those of you that support hillary care let me leave you with this thought. To get an idea of how much better a government run program does versus a market driven company you only need look at UPS versus the USPS. We move more packages than the post office dispite how they have government subsidized rates. People pay more money to let a private company do the work of a much cheaper government run agency. Now if the government has trouble getting a package from here to there, how do you expect them to get you fixed right when something goes wrong with you? One only needs to look at socialized medicines of other countries. Its a disaster and I don't want to pay for it.

[brett636]

Originally Posted by DS

I could have quoted a lot of you about what you think about Canadas health care plan .If you are a citizen you get a health card. No cost to you to visit a doctor.No cost if you need surgery unless its cosmetic.
In rural areas it may be hard to find a doctor,but 99% of us live in cities where doctors are quite accessable.If you have a family doctor,you can usually get in the same day or the next,depending on your ailment.Most people just go to "walk in clinics"and yes you have to wait your turn.
My dad had a colostomy when he was around 45. 10 years later he had a double bypass operation.My mom had serious liver problems and basically spent the last year of her life in the hospital.My dad lived to 73 years old thanks to our health care system.I had a hemmoroid operation that made my life at ups a million times more bareable.There is something to be said for government health care,it seems to work .

So why are Canadian citizens flocking to the U.S. for healthcare they can get in their own country for free? Seems to me that healthcard is not worth as much as you think.

[brett636]

Originally Posted by beatupbrown

(which cover all their citizens)

In spain if you are over age 65 and have a terminal illiness you may as well kiss your butt goodbye. Their socialized medicine progam doesn't cover treatment for those people.

[brownmonster]

Maybe if you had to wait for health care people wouldn't run to the doctor ror every runny nose and hang nail. Old people go to the doctor because they're bored.

[truce]

brett636, where did you get such weird facts? How many of you have actually been to even Canada, let alone other countries?

In my State of America, I wait an average 3-4 weeks for a doctor's appointment, unless it was scheduled 12 months in advance. Then I know that my appointment is confirmed for next Fall. Then, if I just call around to see any doctor for an unscheduled issue, there is absolutely no possible way to get in with anyone. Most doctors are booked with a long, long line of patients.

We only rely on emergency care. This is why everyone has a false sense that you can get immediate health care in America. ER is outrageously expensive. Lots of countries have ERs, and it's possible that they have better emergency service levels. I've been to one ER in the US. It took 3 hours to get a minor issue taken care of...

Yes, Europeans pay a lot in taxes for medical care, but I had a hernia surgery in Germany. It was a mandatory 2-week stay in the hospital with meals provided (and beer downstairs). In the US it's a darn ambulatory surgery! How ridiculous!

Insurance companies have raised the cost of medical care to an absolute maximum in this country. Why do people keep taking it? Why do we keep paying these crazy insurance rates? They are a lot higher than what the government would charge for tax. But God forbid we pay money to the government. We would rather stuff pockets of private companies that in some cases are willing to backstab people.

Why is everyone so anti-government? The only time people support the government is when we pour money into the Pentagon. Don't you see this funny connection here?

Maybe Hillary's plan is not so good, but give nationalized health care an opportunity. Personal health is a human right. This is why so many of us are so unhealthy. You may have to wait for certain surgeries in certain countries. In the US, we wait because we have no choice. Millions of us are without insurance, after all. Some of you UPS grunts with lots of years may not understand this. Our company is one of very few to provide such great benefits. Life is tough on the outside right now.

Canada and European countries try to practice preventative care. We wait until we can't wait no more to fix ourselves.

I am an immigrant, and I accepted my American Government as my own. It does a lot of great things for everyone. If only it had support from it's own people, it could set a truly inspiring and positive tone for the entire world.