VP Debate - Sarah held her own - Brown Cafe

Hoaxster · 10-02-2008, 08:11 PM

Sarah held her own with personality and populism versus the experience and point by point attack by Biden.
She lost the debate on points but clearly won the debate overall by not faltering on anything.

scratch · 10-02-2008, 08:23 PM

I thought Palin did well. A poll on Drudge has her winning it 3 to 1. She is much more likable than Biden, she comes across like a everyday person, one of us. Biden made at least ten factual mistakes, maybe more.

GlenBurnie · 10-02-2008, 08:56 PM

If you mean by 'held her own' she didn't make a fool of herself, okay.

Care to name the 10 factual errors Biden made?
Did Sarah actually answer any of the questions, or did she just act folksy and wink?

drewed · 10-02-2008, 09:03 PM

she stumbled through a little bit, and there were some factual errors on both sides
she did what she needed to do, no major stumbles, not getting caught off guard by biden

GlenBurnie · 10-02-2008, 10:11 PM

She came right out and said she wouldn't answer the questions, and she was true to her word, I'll give her that.

GlenBurnie · 10-02-2008, 10:41 PM

Interesting to read what the commander in Afghanistan actually said. On top of getting his name wrong, Sarah lied about his assessment of the situation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...hpid=sec-world

tieguy · 10-03-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scratch

I thought Palin did well. A poll on Drudge has her winning it 3 to 1. She is much more likable than Biden, she comes across like a everyday person, one of us. Biden made at least ten factual mistakes, maybe more.

she scored a lot of points on style and warmth of personality. She even had Biden laughing with her at points. much friendlier sounding debate then the presidential one which tended to have both debaters looking up tight.

Bad Gas! · 10-03-2008, 04:04 AM

I think Biden has a little crush on Padin..He was giving her his frienly smile.Maybe they had a couple of drinks afterword.He looked like he had fun talking to a beautiful, firey young politician.Something he probably has never stumbled on in the Democratic Party...Cheers to Palin...Like all debates.If ask the ABC,NBC, CNN, New Yok Times,Rolling Stone Mag., the Hollywood crowd, etc. etc.. then Biden won...If you ask Fox News or conservative talk shows then Palin won...But we knew these answers before the show.

UpstateNYUPSer · 10-03-2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBurnie

She came right out and said she wouldn't answer the questions, and she was true to her word, I'll give her that.

She said she may not answer the questions in the format that both Biden and Gwen (the moderator) are accustomed to but never said she wouldn't answer the questions. Perhaps you should work in politics with the way you spin the truth.

pretender · 10-03-2008, 04:37 AM

I thought she far exceeded expectations, which have been steadily lowered as a result of the "gotcha" media. The person that we first met last summer was back last night. I think the polls will show that she was at least able to temporarily stop the trend toward Obama, and give McCain a second chance in his next debate. In my opinion, McCain lost his debate, and possible the election, in the first 10 seconds. Regarding the financial crisis/bailout, the anger out here is fierce. Why this so called "maverick" was seemingly unwilling or unable to parlay this anger to his advantage is beyond me. Obama has done his best to tie McCain to Bush, and here we had Bush and the Democrats asking for 700 billion dollars--It was the perfect time for McCain to put that notion to rest. (In the past, McCain seemed to take delight in being a thorn in the side of Bush!) Now we have what first was a 3 page outline turned into a 451 page bill that is filled with pork, with the cost up to 800 billion--I want to see some outrage from John McCain! I want him to name names! I want to see something for my money--I want to see people in congress held accountable! Getting back to Palin, I think she should turn her lack of experience into a strength--We are in this mess because of these so called geniuses--Barney Frank, Dodd, etc. That is the kind of experience I am sick of...

moreluck · 10-03-2008, 05:54 AM

When they showed Biden laughing in the split-screen, I kept picturing him thinking "Now isn't she cute !" I think he may have underestimated his opponent.

wkmac · 10-03-2008, 06:10 AM

I was working last night so I didn't see the debate but talking with people over the last few weeks there is something about Palin that folks do connect with. A kinda "I know her because she's one of us" thingy going on. I was looking over the net at some news stuff and I ran across a picture of Palin that to me makes that connection. Reminds me of the 60's show "That Girl." Yeah I'm old.

She's the neighbor mom who everyone likes, funny, an innocent/harmless flirtiness to her, etc. Is that enough to be VP? That'll be decided in a few weeks but again this picture IMO just shows the appeal she has over the stuff shirt/know-it-all Washington types who in all their "we're above you" attitude still get us in messes that screw our lives up and people now may actually be ready to risk going with someone who many claim "has no experience"! I mean look at all the experience in Washington now and what has that got us?

Can't stand ya runing mate girl but if you were at the top of the ticket, I might vote for ya just to piss the Washington elitist off. Also it'd be a blast to watch the Washington press corp follow you home on off days to Alaska and have to stand there and watch you gut a moose or clean fish. I'd pay good money to see that.

The Other Side · 10-03-2008, 07:41 AM

The Debates outcome will always depend on which side your on going into it. If you are a Republican, you will see her in a cutsy, folksy new spirit.

If you are a democrat, you will see a lack of foundation, a lack of information, a lack of real substance, a lack of "indepth" understanding of washington goverment.

This was no game saver for McCain. The country is in real trouble, and as I type this, the Republicans in the house are shooting down the "rescue bill" to the demise of all americans.

Sarah Palin FAILED to answer one question directly and forecoming. It was clear the RNC had her reading off her que cards in her hands and when she got in trouble on an answer, she kept going back to energy and alaska to try and get out of it.

For me, I had no real expectations of her to do anything more. Her one liners fell flat in my opinion. Her "Reagan" immitations were anticipated and failed in there delivery.

"There yo go again Joe"....Yawn, boring.

Senator Biden checkmated her on several issues. She looked way out of her league. Maybe in Alaska she can run with the big dogs, but even that being said, its not the National Kennel club.

She herself said that she wouldnt answer the questions the way the moderator or Joe Biden wanted and she was going to keep talking to the american public about her accomplishments in alaska.

HuH? She was there to discuss current policies and problems in america.

She kept insisting that Joe stop talking about the past (aka: the Bush failures) and stated that Joe should talk about the future like her.

HuH? aren't her accomplishments in alaska in the past?

No matter, Joe in ALL polls won this debate by over 60%.

Sarah fell short and in fact, one poll had her in the low 20's.

On CNN, they had a live audience viewing and scoring this debate from both parties as well as independents. Sarahs performance fell flat when she started rambling aimlessly over and over about the same information.

Either way, the polls have Obama ready to win this election hands down.

This debate did nothing more than prove the obvious to those looking for it on both sides.

If you want a real explanation of what was said, click this link to fact check both candidates. You will see Sarah the Baracuda was WRONG most of the time. Biden was rated off slightly but not way off base.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...in_debate.html

over9five · 10-03-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Other Side

If you are a democrat, you will see a lack of foundation, a lack of information, a lack of real substance, a lack of "indepth" understanding of washington goverment.

Brownshark,
This is exactly what a Republican sees when he looks at Obama. Exactly! In fact, you really couldn't describe my feelings about him any better!

Other than that, I agree that Sarah was out of her league. However, I do not think that's a bad thing. One thing everyone agrees with about Sarah going to Washington is that it would be "change". Why is it that the Democrats talk sooo much about change, but when the Republicans offer REAL, ACTUAL change, they start to stutter "uhhh....well....errrrrrrr"??? I think it would be great change to have a NORMAL AMERICAN in the White House. I think Washington NEEDS that!

These debates are boring. I want to see McCain debate Biden. We'll leave the two minor league "children" home that night!

wkmac · 10-03-2008, 08:58 AM

Warning to Brownshark, don't take offense at the fun I'm about to have. It's Friday man, what can I say.

BTW: Welcome back unless you really aren't BS and just another figment of BC redstate conspiracies.
LOL!!!

OK, now to the point.

Brownshark!

I thought he was banned from the forum? (0pps BS I don't know your gender so he/she) I was under the impression that once banned you were prevented from coming back.

(OK thinking to myself here)
If BS can come back and all is forgiven, that means...................

Hey Susie, it's cool now, the cost is clear so come on back!!!!!!!!!! You to Sloth!

somebody warn management, i'm off to work!

over9five · 10-03-2008, 09:56 AM

Just sounds like B.S., I don't really know...

tieguy · 10-03-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkmac

I was working last night so I didn't see the debate but talking with people over the last few weeks there is something about Palin that folks do connect with. A kinda "I know her because she's one of us" thingy going on. I was looking over the net at some news stuff and I ran across a picture of Palin that to me makes that connection. Reminds me of the 60's show "That Girl." Yeah I'm old.

She's the neighbor mom who everyone likes, funny, an innocent/harmless flirtiness to her, etc. Is that enough to be VP? That'll be decided in a few weeks but again this picture IMO just shows the appeal she has over the stuff shirt/know-it-all Washington types who in all their "we're above you" attitude still get us in messes that screw our lives up and people now may actually be ready to risk going with someone who many claim "has no experience"! I mean look at all the experience in Washington now and what has that got us?

Can't stand ya runing mate girl but if you were at the top of the ticket, I might vote for ya just to piss the Washington elitist off. Also it'd be a blast to watch the Washington press corp follow you home on off days to Alaska and have to stand there and watch you gut a moose or clean fish. I'd pay good money to see that.

We've been raised to believe that anyone can become president. We've all scoffed at the elitist that run for the position. We've all craved having someone "just like us" run for the job. Now that we have someone that is real blue collar we're not so sure thats what we want.

Last nights debate will score points for palin. America will be more comfortable with her. The polls will need time to catch up. The democratic blitz/ media blitz/ SNL portrayls have all painted her as some kind of idiot. Those polled will be reluctant to admit they might vote for someone the media has labeled an idiot. My guess it will take about a week for the affects of palin peformance last night to catch up in the polls.

Joe Biden was interesting. I gained some respect for Joe last night. I didn't see Joe working off of talking points and party mantra as much as I would have expected him to do. He was overall nice to Sarah when he could have been a lot "meaner". I honestly can't understand how the democrats could have chosen Obama over Biden. Joe appears to be a much better candidate for president then Obama. Perhaps too much reefer at the DNC headquarters?

toonertoo · 10-03-2008, 06:01 PM

I could have had respect of Biden as a Presidential candidate. I have seen him act mean before but I think he was enamored with Sarah. As most hard core democrats even admit. If you went into the debate open minded.
Everyone talks of her lack of experience, but she is the vice not the number one and she has what McCain lacks, where in comparison poor Joe has to have it all as Obama has nothing.
Shes cute and loveable, is that a bad thing?
Shes refreshing, like spraying Febreze in the halls of congress. Getting rid of the dankness of people who have been there too long to do anything but take more of our money, but their standard of living never changes.
Those who want real change, will vote this ticket, and heck if it dont work it will be less dangerous Than an Obama presidency, and if they suck, vote them out in 4 yrs, and start over.
I for one think she will be fine.

av8torntn · 10-03-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBurnie

Care to name the 10 factual errors Biden made?

This guy names them for you.

YouTube - Biden Lies in Palin VP Debate

wkmac · 10-04-2008, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Just sounds like B.S., I don't really know...

That's OK Over, look at my post again. I can't spell "coast" (cost) as in the coast is clear!

@ both of us!

I guess the notorious spellcheckers have gone braindead! Hard to find go help these days.

Have a good weekend Over!

diesel96 · 10-04-2008, 07:53 AM

Sorry to bore everybody with fact checks, but here's an equalizer to all the claims of Biden's facts, lets check Sarah's shall we?

Sarah Palin asserted that Joe Biden backed John McCain's military policies until this presidential race. That is flatly false. Biden was an outspoken opponent of President Bush's troop increases in Iraq as soon as Bush announced them after the 2006 elections. As Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, he led the most heated hearings before the troops were actually deployed.

Palin oversimplified Obama's vote to stop funding U.S. troops in Iraq. She was referring to a Senate vote on May 24, 2007, on appropriations bill funding operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama was one of 14 senators who voted against the bill on the grounds that it did not set a timeline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. Obama made clear that he was in favor of funding the troops, but could not agree to an indefinite extension of the war. The previous month, most Senate Republicans voted against a Democratic bill (supported by Obama) that linked funding of the troops to the establishment of a timeline for withdrawal. McCain missed that vote.

Palin repeated a standard line offered by the McCain campaign--that Obama has not admitted the "surge" of additional troops in Iraq worked. But in a September interview with Bill O'Reilly of Fox News, Obama said "the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated. I've already said it's succeeded beyond our wildest dreams." Obama has not, however, retracted his opposition to the surge, and he has said political reconciliation still needs to take place in Iraq.

Palin was erroneous when she claimed U.S. troop levels in Iraq are now at "pre-surge" levels. When President Bush announced last month that he would withdraw an additional 8,000 U.S. troops over the coming months, he committed to leaving at least 138,000 troops in the country at the end of his presidency, 3,000 more than there were before the troop increases known now as "the surge."

Palin signaled early she would go after Barack Obama all night on the charge that he had voted 94 times to either raise taxes or fight against tax cuts. Factcheck.org, a non-partisan watchdog, has analyzed the charge. Of the 94, 23 of those votes were indeed votes against proposed tax cuts. Eleven of them were increases on families earning over $1 million to help fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition. And 53 were on non-binding budget resolutions that foresaw allowing tax cuts to expire as scheduled. Such out-year projections are meaningless, since non-binding budgets are passed each year. On another point, Palin said a tax hike that hits earners over $250,000 would hit "millions of small businesses." That is untrue. The vast majority of small businesses barely break even and do not pay the top tax brackets. To get that figure, Republicans count affluent taxpayers who claim some income from some small business income as "small businessmen."

Palin repeated John McCain's claim that Barack Obama voted to increase taxes for every American earning more than $42,000 a year. This is a considerable stretch. Obama voted for a non-binding budget resolution that laid down general budgetary guidelines based on the assumption that the Bush tax cuts will expire, as scheduled, in 2011. The budget resolution did not represent a vote to raise taxes. Obama has said that he is in favor of continuing the Bush tax cuts for all but the wealthiest Americans.

PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."
THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.

PALIN: Claimed she has taken on the oil industry as Alaska governor.
THE FACTS: Palin pushed to impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies and distributed the proceeds to the state's citizens to offset rising energy costs. However, she has also sided with the industry on a number of issues. She sued the Interior Department over its designation of polar bears as an endangered species. That puts her on the same side as the American Petroleum Institute, the oil industry's chief trade association. She also supports the industry's desire to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge — a position at odds with McCain.

PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."
THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."

Wink......Wink.......

mikestrek · 10-04-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Other Side

The Debates outcome will always depend on which side your on going into it. If you are a Republican, you will see her in a cutsy, folksy new spirit.

If you are a democrat, you will see a lack of foundation, a lack of information, a lack of real substance, a lack of "indepth" understanding of washington goverment.

This was no game saver for McCain. The country is in real trouble, and as I type this, the Republicans in the house are shooting down the "rescue bill" to the demise of all americans.

Sarah Palin FAILED to answer one question directly and forecoming. It was clear the RNC had her reading off her que cards in her hands and when she got in trouble on an answer, she kept going back to energy and alaska to try and get out of it.

For me, I had no real expectations of her to do anything more. Her one liners fell flat in my opinion. Her "Reagan" immitations were anticipated and failed in there delivery.

"There yo go again Joe"....Yawn, boring.

Senator Biden checkmated her on several issues. She looked way out of her league. Maybe in Alaska she can run with the big dogs, but even that being said, its not the National Kennel club.

She herself said that she wouldnt answer the questions the way the moderator or Joe Biden wanted and she was going to keep talking to the american public about her accomplishments in alaska.

HuH? She was there to discuss current policies and problems in america.

She kept insisting that Joe stop talking about the past (aka: the Bush failures) and stated that Joe should talk about the future like her.

HuH? aren't her accomplishments in alaska in the past?

No matter, Joe in ALL polls won this debate by over 60%.

Sarah fell short and in fact, one poll had her in the low 20's.

On CNN, they had a live audience viewing and scoring this debate from both parties as well as independents. Sarahs performance fell flat when she started rambling aimlessly over and over about the same information.

Either way, the polls have Obama ready to win this election hands down.

This debate did nothing more than prove the obvious to those looking for it on both sides.

If you want a real explanation of what was said, click this link to fact check both candidates. You will see Sarah the Baracuda was WRONG most of the time. Biden was rated off slightly but not way off base.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...in_debate.html

Couldn't have said it better.

Hoaxster · 10-04-2008, 12:13 PM

IMHO - It does not matter what the pundits (Karl Rove) or Olympic judges ("The Other Side", Diesel) think who won on points. As I said when I started this thread, Biden won on points; however, this is not a high school debate. I'm not sure that anyone ever wins a political debate...the other person can surely lose it, though.
The key here is what did independent voters (like me) think. The only thing that matters is votes of which all the pundits have is one each.
I don't need someone else to tell me how to interpret a debate, especially the VP debate. No one votes for the VP.

On another thread of related thought:
At this point, I am leaning to vote for McCain and the reason why has nothing to do with Palin.

My logic comes down to the simple belief that we need balance in government and we all know how badly the Republicans screwed everything up when they had the House of Representatives, Senate and the President.
If the Republicans still had control of House of Representatives and the Senate, I would vote for Obama.

scratch · 10-04-2008, 12:17 PM

Hoax,
Nothing wrong with that logic. I have heard people say before that they always vote a split ticket, so the thieves can keep an eye out for who is stealing more.

diesel96 · 10-04-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

IMHO - It does not matter what the pundits (Karl Rove) or Olympic judges ("The Other Side", Diesel) think who won on points. As I said when I started this thread, Biden won on points; however, this is not a high school debate. I'm not sure that anyone ever wins a political debate...the other person can surely lose it, though.
The key here is what did independent voters (like me) think. The only thing that matters is votes of which all the pundits have is one each.
I don't need someone else to tell me how to interpret a debate, especially the VP debate. No one votes for the VP.

On another thread of related thought:
At this point, I am leaning to vote for McCain and the reason why has nothing to do with Palin.

My logic comes down to the simple belief that we need balance in government and we all know how badly the Republicans screwed everything up when they had the House of Representatives, Senate and the President.
If the Republicans still had control of House of Representatives and the Senate, I would vote for Obama.

Hoaxster, you have every right to your humble opinion. Truthfully I was voting either Democratic or Independent no matter what this cycle.....However, besides McCain's views nearly mirroring that of GW, McCain's judgement made by selecting Gov Palin is IMO was taking a very weak, suicidal gamble that I don't consider a good quality in a president to lead us out of these very tumultuous times reguardless of who's in control of the house and senate.