Gov healthcare

[klein]

Why not let them ? They are going to be together anyways !!! And then they might not screw around with others like they do (and less aids)... besides, let them pay lawyers for divorces, like "normal" citizens do !
They will learn marriage isn't as great as they thought it was.
But, it should be thier own right. Thier freedom of choice.

[brett636]

Originally Posted by klein

ok, am I wrong here ? that California has ruled same sex marriages are illegal ? Where's freedom in that ?
Abortion again ? It;s up to me (if I was pregant), if I wanted to keep it or not, thats freedom.
I don't know what healthcare has to do with freedom. We have it, that simple.
We can chose, just like you, to go to a doctor or not. Just we don't pay for it.
If we think service is better somewhere esle, yes we may travel abroad... and guess what.? We don't pay the whole bill , either !
We only pay the difference of that what the procedure would have costed inCanada, and what it costed elsewhere. That difference will be paid by the patient. Not the whole bill !
I think thats freedom !
And again, Stemcell research, if I needed my muscles to work again. or bones.. like Michael J Fox (born here in Edmonton)... why not? He can't get help for MS in the states, so he comes here, but he is fighting for you, to get that freedom there as well !
Our goverment rules very little. It;s against the charter of rights.
So is the death sentence, against charter of rights.
Even healthcare is a part of charter of rights here.
Trust me , we have more rights then americans. Meaning more freedom.
Just, odd things like guncontrol are in place, to make it a safer society. So is drinking and driving and all that kinda stuff.

I have a lot of things I could say to this, but it will all fall on deaf ears. Plus fortunately for me I have the sense to stay away from alcohol on company time therefore I have a job I must get ready to go to. So I must bid farewell.

[Baba gounj]

Originally Posted by brett636

I have a lot of things I could say to this, but it will all fall on deaf ears. Plus fortunately for me I have the sense to stay away from alcohol on company time therefore I have a job I must get ready to go to. So I must bid farewell.

[ajblakejr]

Originally Posted by klein

And again, Stemcell research, if I needed my muscles to work again. or bones.. like Michael J Fox (born here in Edmonton)... why not? He can't get help for MS in the states, so he comes here, but he is fighting for you, to get that freedom there as well !

Step back!
Michael J Fox is living with Parkinson's.
Michael J Fox does not have Multiple Sclerosis.

[klein]

Sorry, was wrong with that one. MS thing. Here's a good website if you really wanna know whats best. It's Canada versus United States in Healtcare from Wikepedia !

Wikipedia (Links)

Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

[Jones]

Just came across this article in Business Week:
The French Lesson In Health Care

[klein]

Its a fantastic system there in France... just sadly enough, it's not working profitable. $13.5 billion in debt and growing. They are just too generous.
I woked in Germany, every month about $200.00 was deducted from your paycheck for healtcare... They didn't mention, how much it is in France, but probably just as much. (this was 1987, back then) !

[ajblakejr]

Apology accepted.

The issue is not which is better.
The issue is having the ability to make choices about the direction of your health care or your child's health care with your doctor.
The issue is having the freedom to seek second opinions.
The issue is making choices outside what the "health insurance provider" may cover and accepting responsibility for those bills.










I

[klein]

oh aj.. we get second opinions all the time. We can chose to which doctor we want to go to. To which hospital (normally we pick someone close).
Working with UPS, getting off work at 19:30 or 20:00 hrs... I had to see a doc twice after hrs. Ofcourse by then, only walk in clinics are open. But, I would chose one, on the road leading home.
If we wanna go outside the haelthcare provider, we can do that too !
Our goverment has a socalled bluebook, for procedures.
Lets say to fix a broken leg is $2500.00. It's paid for in any public clinic.
If I chose to go private, or to the states. I will get reimbused the $2500.00, but anything more then that, I need to foot the bill.
We have a choice. You should chat more with Canadians.
We don't get told , which doctors to see, which hosptal to go to, or anything like that.
Plus, with the national healthcare card, it does carry your medical records for the past.
It can act as a safeguard at times (if someone has been treated for this and that in the past )...even if I'm out of town, out of state.. my medical record is basically stored with my card.
My uncle in Milwaukee, he doesn't want national healthcare, either. For 1 big reason. He doesn't think it's fair, he works his life away, while others do nothing, and get healthcare paid, basically by the working population.
But, you know what, thats life. You pay for them no matter what. If it;s welfare, or food stamps or subsidize housing.

[ajblakejr]

For reasons, I prefer not to share, I do not want Nationalized Health Care.

[klein]

AJ... here;s a link :

Wikipedia (Links)

Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

Americans pay more on healthcare then any other country in the world !
Why is that ? It's not on that link.
But, I will tell you why:
Because you go in there, like soo mnay others , with a balnk check (insurance card).
They want to make money, they will do examinations that you don't even need, just to get more money out of it.
If you only paid as much as we do.. National Healtcare wouldn't cost a penny.
But, I truly think, doctors and clinics have taken your system for granted, and take what they can get.
Ever seen a automoblie-mechanics bluebook ?
A lot of shops charge by that... how much to replace a heatercore, or how much for transmission job, etc.
Thats how our system works.
Probaly there a little bit too. Just instead of jsut fixing the light bulb, they'll do the whole lamp, to profit more.

[Baba gounj]

Those that have insurance get charged more by the hospitals to cover the costs provided to all those others that have no insurance.
Very much why California is currently broke, having to pay for all those non-citizen's emergency room visits.

[av8torntn]

Originally Posted by klein

Americans pay more on healthcare then any other country in the world !
Why is that ? It's not on that link.
.

To oversimplify it. 1) We receive the best health care in the world. It is obviously worth the price as by your own admission earlier in this thread when your citizens are given the choice you admit they come down here to receive health care. 2) Our Government uses it's power with Medicare and Medicaid as a form of price support by pumping extra money into the system and creating extra demand by forcing more people into the system. Remember if demand increases and all else remains constant price tends to increase. There is also a fair amount of over regulation that increases the cost. This is more secondary but can also be looked at as a valid reason for our rising costs.


The solutions to our problem would of course cause to much short term pain to be acceptable to the politicians. They would need to stop using the federal government as a price support. They would need to remove some of the barriers to the health care market for both the buyers and sellers. This would include such things as allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines and allowing PA's to open up small non emergency clinics. It would also be helpful to drive down the prices if they took on serious tort reform. See in our country more freedom is what we really seek not some government baby sitter to take care of us.

While your countries poor health care system may work for you guys it would be completely unacceptable to us.

[klein]

I disagree with you, that americans have the best healthcare in the world. According to the WHO, you place 37th overall in the world.
We are 30th. See the link above in my previos posting.

[diesel96]

The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism.


New Rule: Not Everything in America Has to Make a Profit
by Bill Maher
Huffington Post
July 24, 2009


It wasn't that long ago that when a kid broke his leg playing stickball, his parents took him to the local Catholic hospital, the nun put a thermometer in his mouth, the doctor slapped some plaster on his ankle and you were done. The bill was $1.50, plus you got to keep the thermometer.

But like everything else that's good and noble in life, some Wall Street wizard decided that hospitals could be big business, so now they're run by some bean counters in a corporate plaza in Charlotte. In the U.S. today, three giant for-profit conglomerates own close to 600 hospitals and other health care facilities. They're not hospitals anymore; they're Jiffy Lubes with bedpans. America's largest hospital chain, HCA, was founded by the family of Bill Frist, who perfectly represents the Republican attitude toward health care: it's not a right, it's a racket. The more people who get sick and need medicine, the higher their profit margins. Which is why they're always pushing the Jell-O.

Because medicine is now for-profit we have things like "recision," where insurance companies hire people to figure out ways to deny you coverage when you get sick, even though you've been paying into your plan for years.

When did the profit motive become the only reason to do anything? When did that become the new patriotism? Ask not what you could do for your country, ask what's in it for Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

If conservatives get to call universal health care "socialized medicine," I get to call private health care "soulless vampires making money off human pain." The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism.

And if medicine is for profit, and war, and the news, and the penal system, my question is: what's wrong with firemen? Why don't they charge? They must be commies. Oh my God! That explains the red trucks!

[moreluck]

Get all your info. from a stand-up comedian ????
If so, then use Dennis Miller quotes!!

[Baba gounj]

Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure. Can you imagine what that will do to small businesses? Every one will abandon “self insurance” and go on Government insurance. So when Obama says that there will still be private health care, it’s simply a lie: this mandate will force employers to abandon their private plans.


Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.


Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill – YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED! (We all knew this, because health care is rationed in Canada and Britain, but Obama kept saying it would not be).


Pg 42 of HC Bill – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You will have no choice!


PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill – HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.


Pg 58 HC Bill – Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!


Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for election funds transfer


PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).


Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.


PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.


PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your Healthcare!


PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill – Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example – Translation for illegal aliens.


Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.


PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members – your Health care WILL be rationed.


PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill – Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.


pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.


pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill – Doctors/ AMA – The Government will tell YOU what you can earn.


Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.


Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.


Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll
.
pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k who don’t provide public option pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.


Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of income.


Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)


Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.


PG 203 Line 14-15 HC – “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.


Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.


Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill – Doctors – doesn’t matter what specialty – will all be paid the same.


PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.


PG 265 Sec 1131Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.


PG 268 Sec 1141 Federal Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.


PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!


Page 280 Sec 1151 The Government will penalize hospitals for what Government deems preventable readmissions.


Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission – Government will penalize you.


Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.


Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion – Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.


pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!


Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 – Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures which of course forces health care rationing.


Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc., forcing people into Government plan.


Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!


Pg 379 Sec 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. HC by phone.


PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.


Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!


PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.


PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.


Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “advanced care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients’ health deteriorates.


PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!


Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.


PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life

[av8torntn]

Originally Posted by klein

I disagree with you, that americans have the best healthcare in the world. According to the WHO, you place 37th overall in the world.
We are 30th. See the link above in my previos posting.

I think most people know the reasons why so many think that list is not an accurate ranking of health care so I am more curious why you think it is an accurate rating of health care and why also since health care is a right in your country why you guys are so far down the list.

[tourists24]

and why is it when something seriously needs to be done quickly and correctly they come HERE to be treated?

[klein]

http://www.findprivateclinics.ca/res...al-tourism.php

And how many americans come to Canada for cheaper treatment ?
That number is growing and growing too. Since it's much cheaper here. And private clinics are opening up more and more, here as well.

[klein]

Yeah, that WHO list, I'm not sure what that is based on. Probably mostly on the individual costs of medication. As I lived in Germany for 14 years. I do know, percriptions drugs over there are almost free. It's included with thier healthcare. So, is a Spa treatment for anyone over the age of 35. He/She is entitled to a 3-5 week stay in A Spa every 2 years. Paid for, and earnings still continue as well.
But, yes, I agree ofcourse, some Canadians go to the States for specialized treatment. You have plenty of good Specialists and experts there.
1 example would be a sex change operation. I'm sure the ebst Experts in the world are in the US for that. And ofcourse other speciality treatments, that aren't very common, and you want the best in the world. It can even be something that is treated here, but the successrate or the expertise is just better at some speciality clinics in the states... and you want the best of the best, to take care of it (if you have money , ofcourse).
However, I do not agree, that people are dying here because of a waiting list. People seriously ill, go right to the front of the line here.
Foe example, I had a routine MRI booked, yes, it was 6mths down the road to wait for it. It was just a routine checkup.
I never did even go, because I have just been hired by UPS and was in training.. couldn't miss a day (silly me), but getting the job was at that time more important to me.

[av8torntn]

Originally Posted by klein

Yeah, that WHO list, I'm not sure what that is based on. However, I do not agree, that people are dying here because of a waiting list. .

So you just believe in the list because you think it supports your claim?

You may not agree but the fact is that you guys have to wait for treatment as you have already stated in your posts including your admitted wait of six months for an MRI. This may very well be a major reason why our cancer survival rate is higher than yours. You may not like it but one of the major reasons for health care is to treat disease and you guys fall way behind due in large part because of your system. A six month wait for an MRI or any other test, surgery, or treatment is unheard of in big America. Up there in little America you guys may accept the fact that you have inferior health care but down here unacceptable and unheard of. Nobody here is refused health care based on their ability to pay. So why are you worried about the price? It makes no sense.

[klein]

Both systems have thier goods and bads, no doubt. Thats why the contraversy.
Just, you pay the most in the world for your services. Even a bottle of Tylenlol is almost half the price here. (and no, not because of the currrency exchange - we're almost at par again). And will move beyond that soon, again.
We need to get extra travel insurance when we travel to the states, why ? Because if we break a leg there, the canadian system will only pay the amount it would have costed here. And, thats about half the amount (here $2500, there $5000), so I would still be out $2500.
Obama is looking at why, your system is soo expensive, and wants to make changes to it.
Maybe , it's simple things, like clinic-bulidings charging lots because they own them (just for the building) ?
Or that most of your equiptment is bought on credit (MRI's catscans, etc) and it's more expensive, therefor. Some are probably just leased or rented. Same as the buildings.
The goverment on the other hand, can buy those things in cash, and it's paid for, reducing costs. I think Obama sees that.
But, thats just a therory of mine.

I watch Jude Judy now and then... huge amount of cases going to court becaUSE of medical expenses that occured during a fight.
Your probably right, no one gets refused for treatment, but you also need to add, that they'll get billed for it !
We don't have those cases here, unless your seeking pain and suffering, but medical costs are paid for.

Wow, just as I'm watching this, our healthcare was just on the news. Globaltv.com 91% of canadians are satisfied with our system.

But, yes, this topic shouldn't be much of a concerne for me, it's your country.
I onkly started this, because some thought we were all dying up here, waiting for treatment, which isn't true.
Trust me, the really sick, are put right into treatment, and scanning, etc.
For others, that just go in for a routine check-up, like myself... yes, we wait. We will wait for that MRI or catscan, and stuff like that.
It's no biggie, since we're not really sick in the first place.

[pickup]

Originally Posted by klein

Both systems have thier goods and bads, no doubt. Thats why the contraversy.
Just, you pay the most in the world for your services. Even a bottle of Tylenlol is almost half the price here. (and no, not because of the currrency exchange - we're almost at par again). And will move beyond that soon, again.
We need to get extra travel insurance when we travel to the states, why ? Because if we break a leg there, the canadian system will only pay the amount it would have costed here. And, thats about half the amount (here $2500, there $5000), so I would still be out $2500.
Obama is looking at why, your system is soo expensive, and wants to make changes to it.
Maybe , it's simple things, like clinic-bulidings charging lots because they own them (just for the building) ?
Or that most of your equiptment is bought on credit (MRI's catscans, etc) and it's more expensive, therefor. Some are probably just leased or rented. Same as the buildings.
The goverment on the other hand, can buy those things in cash, and it's paid for, reducing costs. I think Obama sees that.
But, thats just a therory of mine.

I watch Jude Judy now and then... huge amount of cases going to court becaUSE of medical expenses that occured during a fight.
Your probably right, no one gets refused for treatment, but you also need to add, that they'll get billed for it !
We don't have those cases here, unless your seeking pain and suffering, but medical costs are paid for.

Wow, just as I'm watching this, our healthcare was just on the news. Globaltv.com 91% of canadians are satisfied with our system.

But, yes, this topic shouldn't be much of a concerne for me, it's your country.
I onkly started this, because some thought we were all dying up here, waiting for treatment, which isn't true.
Trust me, the really sick, are put right into treatment, and scanning, etc.
For others, that just go in for a routine check-up, like myself... yes, we wait. We will wait for that MRI or catscan, and stuff like that.
It's no biggie, since we're not really sick in the first place.

Now, if you guys could just develop a real television industry so that you would not have to watch american imports like judge judy

[pickup]

Originally Posted by klein

Thanks DS ! Yeah, I even talked to Austrailiens (yes, like the rest of the western world, they have national healthcare, too). For them, I think $250 Aus Dollars ($200US). is deductable... So, basically, once that runs out, it's totally covered by the Goverment. If you don't use it at all, you don't pay anything that year. And to remind you, us "trolls" have the 75% supply of icetops (for catscans), in the world, We supply you and most of Europe and the rest of the world. Canadians are also the inventors of penicellin and insulin. And my city here (Edmonton) has now become the newest and best cancer treatment center in NorthAmerica. (it's brand spanky new, might not be on google yet, but yes, some American and European specialist have been chosen to work here, to make it the best). Did I forget to mention , it's free ? if your Canadian ?

icetops? I always wondered what happened to our dysgraphic friend Joey Jerimiah from Degrassi High. Apparently he grew up to become a poster named Klein.