Stock Market --Dow over 10,000 WAKE UP!!!

[island1fox]

I find it shocking --on all business report shows -Fox,Bloomberg,Msnbc, the commentators and reporters state that while unemployment continues to rise and will get worse --they are amazed the stock market is doing so well.
So much for the "experts"
1. Companies report earnings quarter to quarter and year to year. When you are comparing weak numbers to weak numbers from twelve months ago --it looks good.
2. Most importantly --unlike the federal government --the private sector has"shrunk" to the economy. They have laid off workers, cut salaries, cut spending etc, etc. Of course earnings are better.
When will the experts and the federal government learn that while Wall street will survive ---the economy cannot shrink to recovery.

[klein]

Originally Posted by island1fox

I find it shocking --on all business report shows -Fox,Bloomberg,Msnbc, the commentators and reporters state that while unemployment continues to rise and will get worse --they are amazed the stock market is doing so well.
So much for the "experts"
1. Companies report earnings quarter to quarter and year to year. When you are comparing weak numbers to weak numbers from twelve months ago --it looks good.
2. Most importantly --unlike the federal government --the private sector has"shrunk" to the economy. They have laid off workers, cut salaries, cut spending etc, etc. Of course earnings are better.
When will the experts and the federal government learn that while Wall street will survive ---the economy cannot shrink to recovery.

Gee, we get differnent news here.
Which is, the low interesst rates are part of the "problem" (No return on savings, so people rather invest in the market).

2nd) The devaluation of the US dollar.
Not only americans buy into the Dow and Nasdaq, but the whole world.
I'm one of them (have weekly deposits going into the nasdaq fund).
Nasdaq in particular isn't really US.
It's mostly all tech companies (that are japanese owned, like motorolla, Sony, Samsung, panasonic, etc).

And now, everyone gets more shares for thier homeland currency.
Problem is $10.000 US is now only worth $10.000 Cdn.
1 yr ago, it was worth $12.000 cdn.
Did I gain ? hardly... more like break even.
So did every other foreigner.
You got to remember, not just gold and oil goes up, as the US dollar goes down, but so do the stockmarkets.

Here, todays news :

Tue Oct 27, 7:45 AM
OTTAWA (Reuters) - The high Canadian dollar and the speed with which it is fluctuating are putting pressure on the manufacturing sector, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said on Monday.

The Canadian dollar -- helped in part by weakness in the U.S. dollar -- has climbed steadily for much of the past few months and at one point was up 17.5 percent this year.

"There's no question that the higher dollar puts some pressure on the manufacturers in particular. There's also no question that there is continuing downward pressure on the U.S. dollar," Flaherty told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp.

[island1fox]

Klein,
What is your point ?
I am not referring to the Interests rates or the U.S. dollar ---I am stating a fact ---The dow has once again hit and sits around the 10,000 mark. Some American's want to believe that the STIMULOUS has improved the stock market. My point is that the STIMULOUS has nothing to do with the improvements but rather the year to year -month to month comparisons plus the fact that the "Private Sector" has shrunk to the economy.

[klein]

If they believe the economy is doing well, based on Wall Street numbers, that is thier own fault.
But, with almost 1 out of 5 people out of work in the US, I doubt that.
(10% officially on the unemployment roll, and appx. 8% that don't or do not longer receive it).

But, the economy is moving a bit upwards. (housing and manufacturing numbers)..
There is a life sign, atleast.

Next month comes the big test. Isn't Thanksgiving long weekend sales a huge indicator how xmas sales will tend ?
I don't expect those numbers to be great by all means, but hopefully better then expected.

I agree with you. The US stimulus package wasn't great.
Money in wrong places.
But, the big 3 bailout was a neccesity, (not cash4clunkers though).

[island1fox]

Klein.
I am shocked ---we can agree on your last post !

[klein]

Finally a post, I like to see from Fox News !

John Lott
- FOXNews.com
- October 22, 2009
LOTT'S NUMBERS: Why Is Unemployment Rising Faster In the U.S. Than Other Countries?

Did all that stimulus money just lead to higher unemployment rates?

The Obama administration claims that it was their passage of massive government spending that saved the United States from another Great Depression. Last week, Larry Summers, Obama's top economic adviser, claimed that because of the stimulus:
"We have walked a substantial distance back from the economic abyss and are on the path toward economic recovery. Most importantly, we have seen a substantial change in the trend of job loss."
And Vice President Biden declared at the end of September:
"In my wildest dreams, I never thought it [the stimulus] would work this well."
As President Obama and other Democrats have correctly pointed out many times, this has been a worldwide recession. But if Summers and Biden are right in their assessment of the stimulus measures, one would think that the U.S. economy should be recovering better the many other countries, countries not wise enough to follow Obama's lead of an extraordinary $787 billion increase in government spending. It is also particularly timely to evaluate the spending since Christina Romer, the chairwoman of President Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, told Congress today that the stimulus had already had most of its impact on the economy.

Take Canada. Their stimulus package was nowhere as extensive as ours. Their $22.7 billion in stimulus spending this year, and $17.2 billion next year, amounts to about 7.5 percent of their federal spending for their 2009 and 2010 budgets -- not much more than a third of the per-capita stimulus spending in the United States.

Has Canadian unemployment climbed higher than than ours because of their relative inaction? Hardly. Last September, unemployment in both Canada and the U.S. stood at 6.2 percent. By January, when President Obama took office, the U.S. unemployment rate was 7.6 percent; Canada's was at 7.2 percent. But since then U.S. unemployment has gone up much faster. In September, the U.S. unemployment rate had soared to 9.8 percent, while the Canadian rate had only increased to 8.4 percent.

But it is not just Canada where the unemployed are faring better. Other countries, too, decided against a massive stimulus plan. In March, with German Chancellor Angela Merkel nodding in agreement at his side, French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "the problem is not about spending more." Later that month, the president of the European Union, Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek of the Czech Republic, castigated the Obama administration's deficit spending and bank bailouts as "a road to hell." The Washington Post wrote that there was a “fundamental divide that persists between the United States and many European countries over the best way to respond to the global financial crisis.”

The unemployment rate in the European Union was higher than in the United States to begin with even before the Obama administration's spending. By January, the EU unemployment rate stood at 8.5 percent -- almost a whole percentage point higher than ours. So what has happened since the big U.S. stimulus spending spree was passed? We more than caught up with the EU's high unemployment rate. By August, the last month data is available for the EU, the U.S.'s unemployment rate slightly exceeded the EU's -- 9.7 versus 9.6 percent.

Germany has particularly been out front resisting the call for more public spending. Yet, from January through September, the German unemployment rate only rose slightly, from 7.9 to 8.2 percent.

Data on unemployment rates from 27 countries from Japan and South Korea to Brazil and other South American countries to Europe shows that from January to August display the same consistent pattern. Even in the EU it isn’t just a few countries that are driving the relatively small increase they have experienced. The U.S. had a larger increase in unemployment that 22 countries -- that is, 81 percent of the countries had a smaller increase in unemployment this year than the United States. Unemployment in some major countries such as Brazil and Russia has actually fallen since January (see Table here). Other countries, from France to Mexico to Australia to Switzerland, have seen unemployment increase by only about half the amount of the U.S. rate. Indeed, the average increase in unemployment for the 27 countries is slightly less than half the US increase.

Table 1 can be seen here.

As Canada illustrates, it isn’t just countries that had higher unemployment rates before we passed our stimulus plan who have had smaller increases in unemployment this year. About half the countries had lower unemployment rates than the U.S. in January and half higher rates, but both groups of countries have seen much smaller increases in unemployment than the United States.

For thirteen countries in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development it is possible to use estimates of the size of different countries stimulus programs and compare it to the change in unemployment rates. Countries with larger stimulus spending tended to have bigger increases in unemployment. Each one percentage point increase in a country’s GDP that is spent on a stimulus was associated with unemployment increasing by about a third of a percentage point. The impact isn’t statistically significant, but any increase in unemployment hardly comforts nations that are piling up huge debts.

Figure 1 can be seen here.

So why would more stimulus increase unemployment? Spending almost a trillion dollars on various stimulus projects means moving a lot of resources from areas where the private sector would have spent it to the public sector thus eliminating the jobs many people currently have.

Jennifer Psaki, a White House spokesperson, declined numerous requests to answer any questions from Foxnews.com regarding the findings shown here.

The unemployment data from other countries raises serious questions about the large government-spending program, especially since the U.S. program that was primarily sold as a good way to create or save millions of jobs. With the Obama administration and Congress already talking about possibly providing another $200 billion to extend these government-spending programs, these data raise real questions about the efficacy of this spending.

John R. Lott, Jr. is a Foxnews.com contributor. He is an economist and author of "Freedomnomics."

[island1fox]

Klein,
It is just me and you on this thread. Your last post was again interesting and I believe has many interesting points.
One clarification on my agreeing with you yesterday --I agree that the Stimulous has not worked and has been placed in the wrong areas to this point -----I cannot agree on the bailout of the big three ---basically went to big two --Ford did their own thing ----and finally really came down to bailing out GM. Because both Management caved and the Union made outrageous demands over the years --why should the Taxpayers have to suffer for it. This was truly an Obama pay back to the Union. Look at how Obama treated the gm bond holders --when they complained about pennies on the dollar --Obama's own words --"They are just Greedy"
This was truly a real life distribution of wealth. That is why I mentioned in a different thread --be careful if you have invested in state and city Municipal bonds ---Very soon we will see state bankrupties and the poor --many retired muni bond holders will have their life savings and retirements "redistributed"

[klein]

Originally Posted by island1fox

Klein,
It is just me and you on this thread. Your last post was again interesting and I believe has many interesting points.
One clarification on my agreeing with you yesterday --I agree that the Stimulous has not worked and has been placed in the wrong areas to this point -----I cannot agree on the bailout of the big three ---basically went to big two --Ford did their own thing ----and finally really came down to bailing out GM. Because both Management caved and the Union made outrageous demands over the years --why should the Taxpayers have to suffer for it. This was truly an Obama pay back to the Union. Look at how Obama treated the gm bond holders --when they complained about pennies on the dollar --Obama's own words --"They are just Greedy"
This was truly a real life distribution of wealth. That is why I mentioned in a different thread --be careful if you have invested in state and city Municipal bonds ---Very soon we will see state bankrupties and the poor --many retired muni bond holders will have their life savings and retirements "redistributed"

Well, you may not know this, but the big 3 operate and manufacture here as well.
None of them went into bankruptcy protection here.
But, Obama did a smart move on us :
He blackmailed us, saying we pay our share, or he can't gaurantee that those plants won't shut down.
So, we "obeyed", and paid the price.

Now, if no bailout from the US was in place, plants in Detroit would have shut down, and be kept, and grown business here.
Which, ofcourse, would have been the best benefit we could ever think of.

Obama was smart, he out-tricked us.

[chev]

Originally Posted by klein

Obama was smart, he out-tricked us.

Nahhh He's just a bald face liar and is about as transparent as the back end of a horse.

[moreluck]

OK, now you made me think of those blow up dolls with the mouth that looks like they are just getting ready to say "Obama". LOL

[klein]

Confirmed what I have been saying all along :

Briefing.com Intraday Commentary


Moving the Market

U.S. dollar drops as G-20 members hold in place their opinion that economic stimulus ought to be maintained.
Dow up $203.52

Strong:casinos and gaming; diversified metals and miners; coal and consumable fuel; steel; gas utilities; semiconductors; building products; wireless services; computers and electronics; gold
Weak:(none with losses of at least 1%)

BRIEFING.COM 11/9/2009 4:20:00 PM ET ] Market participants responded to a sharp drop by the U.S. dollar with a broad-based buying effort that helped stocks make heavy gains and finish at session highs. In fact, the Dow Jones Industrial Average logged its best closing level in 52 weeks.
News that members of the G-20 and Treasury Secretary Geithner maintain the view that economic stimulus should not yet be withdrawn led to heavy selling against the U.S. dollar and drove the Dollar Index back to 2009 lows. It spent the entire session trading with a loss of roughly 1.0%.
Weakness in the greenback was greeted with a concerted buying effort that gave stocks broad-based gains.

[wkmac]

Wall Street's Naked Swindle

[klein]

Just get that dollar back down, so us investors can earn more money !
Please, start those presses !

11/12/2009 4:30:00 PM ET
[BRIEFING.COM] A stronger dollar dampened the mood of participants for the entire session, resulting in broad-based losses for stocks.

Stocks had spent the first part of the session chopping around listlessly, but began to slide as the U.S. dollar was able to further extend its rebound from the previous session, when the Dollar Index registered a fresh 52-week low. Though the greenback made a couple of pullbacks in the early going, it never left positive territory. That induced some short covering, which helped it finish the session with a 0.8% gain, its best single-session percentage advance in more than one month.

Stocks chopped along in listless action during the early going and briefly made their way to modest gains amid momentary pullbacks by the greenback, but stocks soon fell into the red as the dollar firmed up its gains. Amid the dollar's strong advance, the S&P 500 logged its worst performance by percent of this month, though to be fair, the only other loss this month took place earlier this week when the broader market slipped less than 0.01%.

Energy stocks were the worst performers this session. Their weakness was worsened by sharply lower oil prices, which dropped 3.0% to settle pit trade at $76.91 per barrel. Oil prices had started pit trade lower amid gains in the greenback, but its slide was exacerbated by disappointing weekly inventory data. Both crude oil and gasoline had surprisingly large builds.

Strength in the dollar weighed on other commodities, too. In turn, the CRB Commodity Index fell 1.6%.

[wkmac]

Saw this on Yahoo about the economy

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by wkmac

Saw this on Yahoo about the economy

Thank your master for the link.

[grgrcr88]

You all wanna stimulate the economy stop buying foreign goods, put pressure on US companies to bring their manufacturing plants back to the USA, And only buy from Union companies whenever possible, Buying everything from the bottom dollar stores like Wal-mart does nothing to help increase wages and benefits of hard working Americans.

No money in the pocket means no spending means poor economy.

WAKE UP AMERICA, BUY AMERICAN