Referendum on Obama? - Brown Cafe

over9five · 11-04-2009, 05:58 AM

Republicans Win Key US Elections

With Obamas failed policies, Republicans seem to be on the way to a comeback.
2010 midterms are going to be interesting. I foresee strong Republican gains in both the Senate and the House. There has to be a lot of nervous Democrat "leaders".

moreluck · 11-04-2009, 06:00 AM

Maybe now some of those 'blue dog' Democrats will be afraid for their political lives to vote yes on that awful health plan.

brett636 · 11-04-2009, 08:45 AM

The liberals will do what they do best and that is deny reality. They deny the fact that republicans have to go against their key values for 6 years before they get voted out, but democrats can go with their values within one election cycle and find themselves out of office. 2010 midterms should be a very interesting election, one I look forward too.

island1fox · 11-04-2009, 09:40 AM

Before the last Presidential election I heard many people state that we would never have a Black President for many generations to come. They were wrong. I am glad we finally have a Black President but I see NO change from the same old, same old polical B.S.
There has been no change in --lobby groups, freewheeling spending, divisions, playing the "blame game" , flying around and living the "viva loca"
The Republicans and the Democrats both need a serious wakeup call.
Can it be possible that a third party candidate in our lifetime can bring real change to Washington ?? Do what is right for America --not themselves, their families, their party or special interests groups?
Somewhere in America this person exists. This person does not have to be

Ivy league educated nor involved in politics now. Just a truly honest person with a high degree of integrity that cannot be corrupted by the seducing system.
I know this sounds immature and like a fairy tale ---but I believe that the "average" American is ready for a real change !!!

I am very tired of both Political parties !!!!!!

brett636 · 11-04-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island1fox

Before the last Presidential election I heard many people state that we would never have a Black President for many generations to come. They were wrong. I am glad we finally have a Black President but I see NO change from the same old, same old polical B.S.
There has been no change in --lobby groups, freewheeling spending, divisions, playing the "blame game" , flying around and living the "viva loca"
The Republicans and the Democrats both need a serious wakeup call.
Can it be possible that a third party candidate in our lifetime can bring real change to Washington ?? Do what is right for America --not themselves, their families, their party or special interests groups?
Somewhere in America this person exists. This person does not have to be

Ivy league educated nor involved in politics now. Just a truly honest person with a high degree of integrity that cannot be corrupted by the seducing system.
I know this sounds immature and like a fairy tale ---but I believe that the "average" American is ready for a real change !!!

I am very tired of both Political parties !!!!!!

I couldn't agree with you more. When studying the 23rd district in NY it was amazing to see that the republican and democrat were almost mirror images of themselves on the issues. Then when the republican candidate can't get enough money to continue(gee wonder why) she drops out and endorses the democrat! I liked seeing the media refer to Doug Hoffman as the conservative candidate, perhaps he can make another run in 2010 and take that seat along with a whole host of other conservative candidates.

diesel96 · 11-04-2009, 01:36 PM

NY's 23rd district, Rep held since the civil war. Not anymore. Probably the most significant race won on the national level on tues.
Anyway, for those who think a third party (outside the beltway) canidate could of waved a majic wand and expedentially fix the castastrophic inheritance of the previous Rep leadership is a wishful thinker. One thing Obama or any canidate didn't hammer on during the campaign was how long the recovery will take. And all Americans are a very impatient group.
And finally, I believe there's a referendum amongst the Rep party as well. Seems like Rep moderates and Hardcore Conservatives/Teabaggers are will be experiencing messy primary fights in the future within the party.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29057.html

moreluck · 11-04-2009, 01:43 PM

"Before the last Presidential election I heard many people state that we would never have a Black President for many generations to come. "

We still don't have a black president....He's only half black !!

brett636 · 11-04-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diesel96

NY's 23rd district, Rep held since the civil war. Not anymore. Probably the most significant race won on the national level on tues.
Anyway, for those who think a third party (outside the beltway) canidate could of waved a majic wand and expedentially fix the castastrophic inheritance of the previous Rep leadership is a wishful thinker. One thing Obama or any canidate didn't hammer on during the campaign was how long the recovery will take. And all Americans are a very impatient group.
And finally, I believe there's a referendum amongst the Rep party as well. Seems like Rep moderates and Hardcore Conservatives/Teabaggers are will be experiencing messy primary fights in the future within the party.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29057.html

It really didn't matter which way that race went. There was not going to be a republican representing that district. When the republican is simply echoing what the democrat candidate is saying then why vote for the republican? If your going to get democrat style representation, you may as well vote for the democrat. If Bill Owens had lost Doug Hoffman would have the seat, also a non republican. Even if Scozzafaba(however you spell it) had stayed in and won, there was speculation that she would switch parties once she has the seat. The GOP really lost here by putting up an obvious RINO. Which is a losing strategy going back to last years Presidential election.

No more moderates, no more RINOs. Strong conservative candidates only or the democrats will win everytime.

pickup · 11-04-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moreluck

"Before the last Presidential election I heard many people state that we would never have a Black President for many generations to come. "

We still don't have a black president....He's only half black !!

he would have been black enough to have been a slave in 1823

moreluck · 11-04-2009, 04:33 PM

This isn't 1823 !!

tieguy · 11-04-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island1fox

Before the last Presidential election I heard many people state that we would never have a Black President for many generations to come. !

Not only that but he is our first foreign born president.

toonertoo · 11-04-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

Not only that but he is our first foreign born president.

Ha!
And yes it was and they are SO hating it!
He will be a lame duck presy soon!!
for 3 more years he will just be there, and then we can vote him out, he will go down in history as a miserable failure as he tried to put his ideologies on the American people and they awoke. Amen

knightablaze · 11-05-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

Not only that but he is our first foreign born president.

False.

tieguy · 11-05-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightablaze

False.

prove me wrong . Put him and his grandmother in the same room instead of one of those staged townhalls he loves so much.

Release all of his records from his early days.

Its real simple knight I want you to pull out every bit of evidence not just selected pieces and prove me wrong.

wkmac · 11-06-2009, 05:32 AM

Quote:

As the owner of a bovine heart valve I encourage everyone to eat more chicken.

LOL! I'll know somethings really gone wrong if your neighbors complain of early morning Moo'ing and you sell your lawn mower and start eating the grass yourself!

As to the election being a referendum on Obama, it's interesting but to much can happen over the next year and the American voter is a funny bird. I do think there is nervousness in Washington contary to the spin so there you go. But the thing I find even more interesting is the NY 23rd race between Owens and Hoffman. Hoffman ended up somewhere around the 45% mark (last numbers I saw was with 92% precients reported) but here is a case where the 2 parties in effect merged and still only won by single digits in percentage points to maintain monopoly control.

To many variables but one has to ask what would have happened had the republican stayed in? She did get 6% even having withdrawn. And the other question I have is the unprecedented nature of one party candidate dropping out and endorsing the other as in, why? In such a political climate as Washington and what one more vote could mean either way, why would either establishment party do such a thing for the other establishment party? Think about that!

Hoffman is not my cup of tea but what he did as a 3rd party candidate is something I find very interesting, very refreshing and is this a shot across the bow of the 2 establishment parties and was this a referendum on more than just Obama? Time will tell.

TICK! TICK! TICK!

I have to give a shout out to Year of Youth Project 2012 who used yesterday "NOVEMBER 5th" to launch this.

YouTube- Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012

God Bless the creative and thinking youth of America.

RIP IT DOWN KIDS, It's time to Rebuild ANEW!

UpstateNYUPSer · 11-06-2009, 05:28 PM

I live in the 23rd district and Bill Owens was simply the lesser of two evils. Scozzafava withdrew 4 days before the election when she knew she basically had no chance and surprisingly endorsed Owens. Hoffman tried to portray himself as a common man yet is a millionaire accountant with a classic car collection and a home on the lake. Voters simply could not relate to him. Owens wasn't much better. His initial claims of bringing 2000 jobs to Upstate NY were proven false. He is a partner in one of largest law firms in Clinton County and represents tax cheats. He will have little to no effect in Washington.

tieguy · 11-06-2009, 06:25 PM

Not enough elections here to be a referendum. But there is a message here that the white house needs to listen to. Voters are concerned about the economy and the 10.2 (phew) percent unemployment. Obama should be doing more about the economy now and saving health care for a later time. Markets have rebounded some since the election results. If the market guru's are thinking like Cramer then the feeling is health care is dead or watered down as a result of the elections. Health stocks have rebounded since the elections for whatever reason.

brett636 · 11-06-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

I live in the 23rd district and Bill Owens was simply the lesser of two evils. Scozzafava withdrew 4 days before the election when she knew she basically had no chance and surprisingly endorsed Owens. Hoffman tried to portray himself as a common man yet is a millionaire accountant with a classic car collection and a home on the lake. Voters simply could not relate to him. Owens wasn't much better. His initial claims of bringing 2000 jobs to Upstate NY were proven false. He is a partner in one of largest law firms in Clinton County and represents tax cheats. He will have little to no effect in Washington.

I guess I just can't comprehend why Hoffman's situation would be a problem for most people. So he is a successful man who worked and studied hard, and has a lot of wealth to show for it. That is something to be celebrated, not condemned. Sure he wasn't the most charismatic candidate, but did his message not echo with you at all?

over9five · 11-07-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett636

I guess I just can't comprehend why Hoffman's situation would be a problem for most people. So he is a successful man who worked and studied hard, and has a lot of wealth to show for it. That is something to be celebrated, not condemned.

Not for voters brainwashed with "spreading the wealth" rhetoric.

wkmac · 11-07-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

I live in the 23rd district and Bill Owens was simply the lesser of two evils. Scozzafava withdrew 4 days before the election when she knew she basically had no chance and surprisingly endorsed Owens. Hoffman tried to portray himself as a common man yet is a millionaire accountant with a classic car collection and a home on the lake. Voters simply could not relate to him. Owens wasn't much better. His initial claims of bringing 2000 jobs to Upstate NY were proven false. He is a partner in one of largest law firms in Clinton County and represents tax cheats. He will have little to no effect in Washington.

What you are saying in a way makes my point. Hoffman IMO was not the best or what I would call a true alternative to the present 2 party construct. Just looking over Hoffman's website under issues, I was hardpressed to really differ him from many a "republiCON" who also call themselves "CONservative". In fact, had he been in town when the so-called conservatives ran things, he would have been right in the middle of it all, playing the good lemming charging over the cliff which helped lead to the current problems to begin with.

In the past, most people would have taken a so-called "pragmatic view" and as you did, voted the lesser of 2 evils. You never are voting for something, you are always voting against, "I'm voting for "A" because I fear "B" more than "A". Ever go to a restaurant, look at the menu and say, "I'll take the brocolli because I hate the asparagus, but what I really want is steak!" So you always order and eat brocolli. Although not an asparagus fan, I do love brocolli so don't take my use of as an afront too.

But the real irony, unlike in the restaurant where they at least will bring you the brocolli, in always voting for "A" you still always get shades of "B", you are still forced to eat asparagus. So much for having a real choice UH!

The NJ governor's race I think was more about Corzine than Obama but Obama did expend some political capital trying to help Corzine so I understand why some would point to it. Big picture IMO it's little to do with Obama. In the case of Virginia, post Civil War to 1970' every governor of Virginia was a democrat but in 1970' a republican was elected and since then the top slot in Virginia has cycled back and forth between the 2 parties and following that trend, it was due to flip back republican. Obama "may" have helped the cause but I'm not convinced he is the cause. And this IMO is what makes NY's 23rd such an interesting case separate from the other 2. It may also be why I hear less of the 23rd and more of the other 2 by the media. Yeah, I do think they're scared so best not talk about it!

3rd party efforts mostly draw single digits on election day and rarely become a factor at all. Even the American revolt against the crown was a single digit cause nationally until light could be seen at the end of the tunnel. Hey, we're all suckers for a winner!

Yet, here's a case of not some election of a local yocal (in our area we elected a libertarian city councilman for a time so it does happen) but this is an election to a national office and yet over 40% of your neighbors told the 2 major parties to go take a hike and they voted in some sense for something they wanted, not a lesser evil. I don't look at Hoffman in this case as something special because he's not. I wouldn't vote for him and had I been in the 23rd I would have turned in a blank ballot or just stayed home which most likely is what I'm doing from here on anyway. I'll vote local against tax increases or local expansions of gov't but I'm not gonna support the 2 party oligarchy under the Diebold plan! Would a blank ballot say more than a used ballot? How would the media spin a story where a large percentage of voters showed up to the polls but a small percentage actually casted a vote? Hmm! Let's have courage and find out shall we!

You know you still gonna get asparagus anyway so what do you have to lose?

Hoffman is irrellevant IMO but the action of voters is a whole other can of worms and this should have the powers that be a bit nervous. I think you guys up there are hero's for showing some guts. Now if America will show courage and follow your lead.

Gerald Celente of Trends Research was interviewed back in August and in his 4 part YouTube interview, he didn't hold back and I'm sure he said some things that would make many of us feel uncomfortable. However, in the 4th part of the interview posted below, he predicted by 2012' a new political party if you will of progressive/libertarians who will become a force on the national political stage. Watching NY's 23rd, I had to wonder if I was watching the field being plowed from which the seed will be planted?

YouTube- Gerald Celente on King World News \| Part 4/4

Jones · 11-07-2009, 07:30 AM

Generally agree with mac. The biggest factor in the Virginia race was that Deeds ran one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen. Or rather not seen, because he was like the invisible man. I follow local politics fairly closely and on Tuesday morning I really couldn't have told you much about Deeds beyond the fact that he was the democratic candidate. McDonnell definitely campaigned on local issues, not national ones, so I really wouldn't call this race a referendum on Obama.