Immigration

[moreluck]

Interesting....this is from way back in 1907....

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because o f creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by moreluck

Interesting....this is from way back in 1907....

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because o f creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

I have always enjoyed and agreed with that qoute. I just wish we could find politicians that had this simple staight forward approach. It would make my decisions at voting time alot easier. Now I only decide who to vote against not for.

[tonyexpress]

Originally Posted by moreluck

Interesting....this is from way back in 1907....

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because o f creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

What a breath of fresh air from 100 years ago. What is so complicated about this idea with today's politicians??

[solitarysiren]

Originally Posted by tonyexpress

What a breath of fresh air from 100 years ago. What is so complicated about this idea with today's politicians??

maybe the fact that things have changed over 100 years. I don't mean this as a smart a** remark, I just mean that more has to be taken into account. We're quite a melting pot now.

eh. I have mixed feelings on the subject anyway. I'm a first generation American from immigrant parents. Yeah they were illegal. They never stole. They always worked hard. They were never on welfare. They learned the language and became naturalized citizens (my dad anyway. My mom didn't get the chance).

I know that had they not taken the risk several times (I think my dad was deported three times) I wouldn't have the luxury of a full belly (yeah, sometimes it's Ramen, but at least it's full), clothes, shows, not to mention education. I'm the first in the family to EVER graduate college and go to grad school. I'm very thankful for all this, but I know that it's all been laid at my feet by a method that most people feel so negatively towards.

So that makes my position thus: For those who are in search of a better life, for better opportunities for their children, for those who honestly want to raise themsleves out of deplorable circumstances, take that risk. No one should hold you back from bettering yourself. Yes, this involves learning the language and becoming self sufficient. At least get a residency, if not fully naturalized. I also understand, however, that not everyone takes to language easily, but there at least needs to be an effort.

I don't support people with dishonest intentions coming into this country. One bad apple ruins the whole bunch, right? But immigration is something that most Americans only see one side of, and it's so much more complicated than that.

I've had this conversation with many people and I usually offer this: Go live in a foreign country for a while. Just pick up and go somewhere completely different for you. Try to learn the language and assimilate the best you can with not much more than what you take with you, then tell me what you think. I've done it. I had the advantage of knowing some of the language and having some background knowledge of where I was going, but even in a country where English is becoming ever more common, it was one of the most difficult experiences I've had thus far. I was also fortunate enough to be able to come home and get back to life as usual. It was an eye opening experience, as well as a self-empowering one. It wasn't nearly as dramatic or as risky as what my parents went through, I know that, but it let me understand a bit more what is at stake and why so many people risk their lives crossing borders.

sigh.

Thanks for bearing with me, if you've made it this far. I guess I just had to get that out...

[moreluck]

I know I'm lucky to have been born in the USA. I also think we have the best country in the world (except for a few politicians). Which is why I will never leave the USA....not even for an experiment. I know when I've got it good.

My grandparents were immigrants.....they came and got citizenship papers and learned the language....broken as it was.

If people want to better themselves, that's admirable, but they have to do it legally. I can't understand how people come in illegally and then start getting all kinds of assistance from the gov't. It's not right.

I knew a kid from Mexico who came here with a working permit (visa) of some sort and he would send the bulk of his paycheck back home to his parents. He was one of the hardest workers I've ever seen......but he did it legally.

I know Americans are not heartless people.....it's the "illegal" part that we have a problem with. When 800 people have studied hard and done all the paperwork and they get sworn in as a citizen.....they must wonder how others walk in for "free".

[Jones]

We should all remember the

Immigration: The Human Cost | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Immigration: The Human Cost | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

of illegal immigration.

[surviv'n_it]

Originally Posted by moreluck

Interesting....this is from way back in 1907....

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because o f creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

I think the statements made by Roosevelt can apply just as much today as it did then. Granted, things changed over 100 years but this statement could have just as easily been said yesterday. The difference is that there are no politicians brave enough to say it.

[Channahon]

Does anyone know?

What is the process in Mexico to gain entry into the US legally?

[toonertoo]

I dont know about a citizen, but when I went into Nogales, no problem, I didnt have to show a thing, and I had a rental which it said in the contract I could not do, but I never read it so I didnt know.....But when I came back in they tore my(their) car apart. Young children and all, I looked quite the criminal. that was 15 yrs ago and I was not of Mexican decent, it was obvious I was a tourist, so I was fair game. And my name was June, not Jesus, so I got searched. Political correctness at its best, even then.

[SeniorGeek]

Originally Posted by toonertoo

...But when I came back in they tore my(their) car apart. Young children and all, I looked quite the criminal. that was 15 yrs ago and I was not of Mexican decent, it was obvious I was a tourist, so I was fair game. And my name was June, not Jesus, so I got searched. Political correctness at its best, even then.

I imagine that the smugglers are disappointed when the tourist disguise does not work.

Illegal Immigrants Have Kids Smuggled In

This smuggler is named Brenda:
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/46292.php

The name "June" appears on the federal list of "Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons", which might get you some extra scrutiny nowadays. (I think it should not cause a problem unless it is also associated with a greek name or the year 1978.)

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by moreluck

Interesting....this is from way back in 1907....

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907. "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because o f creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

So many complain about the ramifications of having people here illegally but at the same time, look around.

How many of us personally hire them because of their incredibly low rates to landscape, put on that new roof, paint our homes, install our carpets, clean the house?

That's all I see in my neighborhood alone. I've asked my neighbors about this and I learn that their workers don't speak English and get paid in cash.

Sounds like we ourselves are helping to feed this need.

[big_arrow_up]

I have no problem with them as long as they don't commit any more crimes, (entering illegaly being the first), and don't receive govt. benefits. If it were up to me we'd ship all of the American's that SUPPOSEDLY can't find a job to Mexico. It would be like trading scum for hard working immigrants.

[Channahon]

I just have issues with rallies by illegals demanding rights and entitlements. I recently attended a swearing in ceremony for citizenship and the judge asked that every person stand, give their full name and their country of origin. Out of 60 people, 6 or 10% were from Mexico. The other 50 people were from other countries, Europe, Canada, Far East and the Carribean.

So I think to myself with all the issues of the numbers of illegals in this country, why they don't enter legally. The other 90% were here legally, and took the time to become US citizens.

[big_arrow_up]

Originally Posted by Channahon

I just have issues with rallies by illegals demanding rights and entitlements. I recently attended a swearing in ceremony for citizenship and the judge asked that every person stand, give their full name and their country of origin. Out of 60 people, 6 or 10% were from Mexico. The other 50 people were from other countries, Europe, Canada, Far East and the Carribean.

So I think to myself with all the issues of the numbers of illegals in this country, why they don't enter legally. The other 90% were here legally, and took the time to become US citizens.

One word can answer your question...DESPERATION. It is virtually impossible to earn a decent wage in Mexico so they come here. Right or wrong, it is screwed up. Mexico should be one of the riches countrys in the world with all the oil they have but there is so much corruption down there it will never happen.

[Channahon]

Demanding and condemning are very strong words for these people who are not in this country legally.

Thousands March for Immigrant Rights

By PETER PRENGAMAN
AP
LOS ANGELES (April 8) - Thousands of people marched through downtown on Saturday, demanding a way for the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants to become citizens and condemning President Bush's latest proposal.

Carrying signs saying "Amnesty Now!" and "Love Thy Neighbor, Don't Deport Him," about 15,000 people danced to Mexican ranchera music, chanted "Si, se puede!" or "It can be done!" and passed large American flags over the crowd.

Many were angry about a White House plan that would grant illegal immigrants work visas but require them to return home to apply for U.S. residency and pay a $10,000 fine.

"Charging that much, Bush is going to be even more expensive than the coyotes," said protester Armando Garcia, 50, referring to smugglers who transport people across the Mexican border.

Immigrant rights advocates say many of the area's illegal immigrants feel betrayed by President Bush, who they had long considered an ally. While illegal immigrants and advocates have long focused their ire at conservative Republicans and Congress , many had seen Bush as an advocate of immigration reform because he had repeatedly said he favors giving many illegal immigrants a path to citizenship.

The White House's draft plan, leaked last week, calls for a new "Z" visa that would allow illegal immigrant workers to apply for three-year work permits. They would be renewable indefinitely, but would cost $3,500 each time.

Then to become legal permanent residents, illegal immigrants would have to return to their home country, apply at a U.S. embassy or consulate to re-enter legally and pay a $10,000 fine.

The proposal has been sharply criticized by Hispanic advocacy groups, Democrats, the Roman Catholic Church and unions that have many immigrants in their ranks. They argue the cost of work permits and the green card application -- which could total more than $20,000 -- are prohibitive for low-wage earners.

"For my wife and I it would cost about $30,000," said Francisco Gomez, 41, who along with his wife is in the country illegally. "Multiply that by all the illegal immigrants here ... It's obvious Bush just wants to fund his Iraq war with our money."

The plan is far more conservative than the one passed by the Senate last year with bipartisan backing and support from President Bush. That plan would have allowed many of the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants to stay in the United States, work and apply to become legal residents after learning English, pay small fines and back taxes and clear a background check.

Many Senate conservatives opposed that plan, and it failed to gain traction in the then Republican controlled House, which at the end of 2005 passed the punitive immigration reform bill that angered immigrant communities and led to massive protests.

"Last year, we were fighting for legalization, and this year we are fighting for legalization and against all these raids," said Maria Lopez, 50, an illegal immigrant who works as a seamstress and sends $200 a month home to family members in Mexico.

"We have no way to come up with that much money, and Bush knows that," she said. "He is doing this on purpose so we don't ever become legal residents."

[brazenbrown]

How about the crime factor??


Illegal Aliens and crime incidence

Illegal Aliens represent a disproportionatley high share of the prison population!

Adult illegal aliens represented 3.1 percent of the total adult population of the country in 2003. By comparison, the illegal alien prison population represented a bit more than 4.54 percent of the overall prison population. Therefore, deportable criminal aliens were more than half again as likely to be incarcerated as their share of the population.

[SeniorGeek]

Originally Posted by brazenbrown

How about the crime factor??


Illegal Aliens and crime incidence

Illegal Aliens represent a disproportionatley high share of the prison population!

Adult illegal aliens represented 3.1 percent of the total adult population of the country in 2003. By comparison, the illegal alien prison population represented a bit more than 4.54 percent of the overall prison population. Therefore, deportable criminal aliens were more than half again as likely to be incarcerated as their share of the population.

[Emphasis added...and big typeface diminished]
A standalone data point like that can be quite deceptive. It ignores that most illegal aliens (that we notice, anyway) come from Mexico.

In the U.S., Hispanics are imprisoned at about twice the rate of the whole population. (This is a vague number because Hispanic is considered a subset of white, and many places do not keep separate statistics. I found estimates ranging from 5% to 11% of the Hispanic population being in prision.)

Therefore, illegal aliens appear to be underrepresented in prison population.

[moreluck]

http://immigrationcounters.com

This site has real time counts of illegals and the $$ we spend.

[moreluck]

The quote of the year!

"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."


Try this experiment.

Put a bird feeder in your yard and fill it with bird seed. It doesn't take long before the birds learn that a free meal is in the offing.
They come by the hundreds.

Now, empty the feeder. What happens? No more birds.

Take away the free medical care. Take away the free schooling. Take away
the free welfare. Take away the jobs. What happens?

No more illegals. WOW!! What a simple solution!

No need for a border fence at the cost of hundreds of millions of tax
dollars.

Do you think this could work?

[big_arrow_up]

Originally Posted by moreluck

The quote of the year!

"The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."


Try this experiment.

Put a bird feeder in your yard and fill it with bird seed. It doesn't take long before the birds learn that a free meal is in the offing.
They come by the hundreds.

Now, empty the feeder. What happens? No more birds.

Take away the free medical care. Take away the free schooling. Take away
the free welfare. Take away the jobs. What happens?

No more illegals. WOW!! What a simple solution!

No need for a border fence at the cost of hundreds of millions of tax
dollars.

Do you think this could work?

That is wishfull thinking. I'm all for the fence but until then they will not stop comming if their kids can't go to school and if they can't get govt. benefits. The percentage of illegals recieving govt. bebefits is much lower than people think. The fact is that most aren't on wellfare. They don't need it because they are good with their money. I've spent allot of time with illegals in the past when I was working in a factory and I learned pretty quickly that most of the labels applied to them by the media aren't true. If one out of ten is on wellfare, or a gang member, the media slaps that label on all of them. It's not true. Most of them are tight with their money. They save, save, save and save. They aren't materialistic and don't waste money on things they don't need. The problem I have is not that they are illegal. It's that since they know they aren't wanted here and that they probably can't stay here forever they treat the area they live in as a temporary home. Hence the lower standard of living that tends to piss off the middle class and wealthy people. It cramps their style. But me, I just don't like watching areas of town that used to be nice turn into a third world country.

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by big_arrow_up

I just don't like watching areas of town that used to be nice turn into a third world country.

Amen to that one. Our hub is in a neighborhood that's hardly Beverly Hills but there are a few nice streets with some decent little homes. One original homeowner I know moved out; the latest trend is that the illegals move twenty people into a house, ten more sleep in the storage shed and fifteen more are in sleeping bags all over the back yard, Holy Cow, Man! And nobody does anything about it! Yes, they may all be employed but this is over the top!

[big_arrow_up]

Originally Posted by Sammie

Amen to that one. Our hub is in a neighborhood that's hardly Beverly Hills but there are a few nice streets with some decent little homes. One original homeowner I know moved out; the latest trend is that the illegals move twenty people into a house, ten more sleep in the storage shed and fifteen more are in sleeping bags all over the back yard, Holy Cow, Man! And nobody does anything about it! Yes, they may all be employed but this is over the top!

It is rediculous. Even though the end result is the area in questin being turned into a third world country, as well as creating a fire hazard, I'm still impressed with their initiative. They do what ever it takes to save money. It sucks that they have to break the law in order to come here and make a living. My wish is that they would be aloud to stay as long as they haven't commited crimes other than entering illegaly. If they were to have the chance to stop living in the shadows they wouldn't have to turn the areas they live in into third world countrys. If I were in control, and I admit it is just wishful thinking, I'd have all of them turn themselves in and weed out the honest workers from the trouble makers and legalize them. Any Americans that are on unemployment benefits and other govt. benefits would be offered one last chance to get off the govt. dollar and then deported.....to Mexico. LOL

[moreluck]

If this doesn't open your eyes... nothing will!



From the L.A. Times


1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for
cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants
working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on
Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican
nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely
illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).

(All of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)


Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )
results from immigration.

29% of inmatesin federal prisons are illegal aliens.

[big_arrow_up]

Originally Posted by moreluck

If this doesn't open your eyes... nothing will!



From the L.A. Times


1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for
cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants
working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on
Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican
nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely
illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).

(All of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)


Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )
results from immigration.

29% of inmatesin federal prisons are illegal aliens.

I believe it but those numbers wouldn't hold up if the article was talking about the entire country. The illegals working farther into the country are working under false papers and are getting taxes taken out of their checks. Those stats paint a false picture of how things are across the nation. It's like when people say there are more white people on wellfare than other races. Yes, but there are also more white people in the country so if one looks at the percentage of that total population instead of just the number of people on wellfare they will get the true scale. So if you compare the pecentages of that article to the estimated population of illegals in that area you'll realize that the the idea that most illegal aliens are criminals (other than being undocumented) is false. I don't mean to sound like an Illegal Alien Advocate. I just want to be fair. And like I said before...if we can somehow get rid of the gang bangers and wellfare bums (which are in the minority) and keep the honest working ones then I'd be happy to keep them here as long as they are willing to improve their living conditions.

[moreluck]

yeah, but I don't live "across the nation". I live in California.