AGFS Panic Call

unionman · 06-10-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FedEx All the Way!

As one of your constituents, I am writing to voice my opposition to the "Brown Bailout" – the language inserted by UPS lobbyists into the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2009 that will bring havoc to our nation’s overnight-delivery system—and share my hope that you will oppose this legislation, as well. The "Brown Bailout" essentially exists as a special favor for a huge company at the expense of Americans like me, and is being pushed through Congress without hearings or public debate over its potential impact on our economy.

We rely on an overnight delivery system that is dependable and affordable. Prices have never been lower, service has never been better, and access to global markets has never been greater. It seems reckless to destroy something that works so well for all of us.

Please say no to the "Brown Bailout."

Sorry, Bush has left the building. Why should the Democrats give Fred special treatment at the expense of his employees? Unions have been kicked around for decades now and look what has happened to the middle class.

MrFedEx · 06-10-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unionman

Sorry, Bush has left the building. Why should the Democrats give Fred special treatment at the expense of his employees? Unions have been kicked around for decades now and look what has happened to the middle class.

More great ideas from the people who want to put Ronald Reagan on Mt Rushmore. This is a "Hail Mary" from Smith, and it's going to be intercepted in the end zone.

I will now translate for FEATW.....FRED'S PLAN IS GOING TO FAIL.

upandcomer · 06-10-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FedEx All the Way!

As one of your constituents, I am writing to voice my opposition to the "Brown Bailout" – the language inserted by UPS lobbyists into the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2009 that will bring havoc to our nation’s overnight-delivery system—and share my hope that you will oppose this legislation, as well. The "Brown Bailout" essentially exists as a special favor for a huge company at the expense of Americans like me, and is being pushed through Congress without hearings or public debate over its potential impact on our economy.

We rely on an overnight delivery system that is dependable and affordable. Prices have never been lower, service has never been better, and access to global markets has never been greater. It seems reckless to destroy something that works so well for all of us.

Please say no to the "Brown Bailout."

This is great!

Lets count the lies!

1) UPS Lobbyists inserted nothing...that's not even possible.
2) It will no way bring any havoc as nothing would change in the near term.
3) There is no favor being done as government is not in the business of granting favors.
4) It hurts nobody except shareholders of FedEx, not average working people as you would imply.
5) There will be hearings as it is in committee and that is what committee is all about. This is why they are called committee hearings. Amazing!
6) There is never public debate in the process of creating legislation in the United States. (When was the last time you were invited to the US Capital to share you opinion on any Bill?)
7) This one bill will have zero effect on our economy, and is actually very egotistical to think that FedEx POSSIBLY having to pay their employees a little more would in any way effect the entire US economy.
8) Prices have been lower.
9) Service has been wayyyy better. But at least we can both say we are not the USPS!!!
10) The only person that the current system works really well for is FedEx, while hundreds of national, regional, and local delivery companies are hurt by the double standard created by the RLA.

Crappy Place · 06-10-2009, 05:23 PM

At our meeting today we watched frontline with our senior manager. The important issue with frontline this month is that Fedex wants to cut overtime and increase our stops per hour by 1. This means more work less pay,haven't we heard this before. Do you think that the company would try and put a good spin on things so maybe we might think twice about the union. But no mighty Fedex does what it always has done and demand more and more from us with out proper compensation. In a meeting that I stated before with the VP of the region he said our stops per hour were the highest ever so I ask how can they go up with volume levels equal to 1998,per Fedex. After frontline our senior read the handout about the RLA and the effects of the union. He stated this would be devastating to the company and change the way Fedex does business. I strongly feel that Fedex is really worried about this issue because they would loose total control over us and would have to answer to others. I don't know if I am in favor of a union but I am willing to do what ever I can to keep my job and stop the madness of Ground taking our work. The only thing I can suggest is that people read these statements because the more knowledge you have the better off you will be in the long run. To Mr.Fedex and Ricochet1a keep up the great work you both have made many realize the real truth about these very important issues..

Ricochet1a · 06-10-2009, 07:25 PM

Part of the disinformation that FedEx is putting on their brown bailout site is that having the RLA classification pulled, would result in a “package tax”. Fred gets real creative with his math. Using FedEx’s own numbers, FedEx had $22.4 BILLION in revenue FY 08 and moves an average daily volume of 3.4 million packages. On one of the PDF’s linked to his propaganda site, he has the following paragraph:
· “So how much will this cost the consumer? Estimates vary, but a mere 10 percent increase would mean a more than $5 billion “hidden package tax” to shipping companies and consumers. Prices would go up, just when our economy needs a break.

He uses the plural “shipping companies”, so he tries to cover his base there. But there is a problem, a big one. If FedEx loses its RLA classification UPS rates won’t go up at all, since they already pay union wages. Doh!!! DHL is out of the US domestic market. So using Fred’s estimate of needing a 10% increase in his revenue to cover the cost of a union (which is about double what he would really need), take the $22.4 BILLION figure and multiply that by 10%. I keep on getting $2.24 BILLION no matter how hard I try to get his $5 BILLION figure. So we caught Fred in a bit of a fib…

Now let’s use some real numbers. FedEx employs both full and part-time employees. The Courier and RTD jobs are predominantly filled with full time employees (right now). If we use what FedEx calls “full-time equivalents”, we can use a figure of approximately 35,000 FTE employees in the US. Bringing back the defined benefit pension plan, getting back to a reasonable top-out time and bumping up the wage rate slightly would cost about $20,000 annually per FTE (bringing up the average FTE compensation per year up from the mid $40’s to the mid $60’s). Let’s do some “real” math. 35,000 times $20,000 gets me $700 million every time. This would be $700 million a year in additional labor expense for Fred, out of annual revenues of $22.4 BILLION (FY08). Put another way, it would cost FedEx an additional 3.125% to their rate schedule to cover the expense. This assumes that Fred doesn’t change the executive compensation, doesn’t cut the dead weight in the corporate headquarters, or makes any other sensible changes to the business model. If anyone has any current “hard” numbers for the number of Couriers and RTD’s employed, please post them, I’m working off memory on the numbers of employees in these classifications.

To further illustrate how out of touch FedEx management is, look at the Kinko’s debacle. Kinko’s was acquired in 2004 for around $2.4 BILLION. Almost two-thirds of that has been written off as a loss since the acquisition. Latest losses related to the Kinko’s acquisition are in the neighborhood of $1.6 BILLION, and rising every month. Fred’s decision to purchase Kinko’s has cost FedEx $1.6 BILLION, and they haven’t even had a vote of no-confidence on the board (because the board is packed with his cronies).

Let’s use Fred’s worst nightmare, and assume he has to buy off the union with wages and benefits that match UPS’s. UPS drivers receive a compensation package worth a little over $90,000 a year in wages, benefits and pension. That is almost double the average FedEx Courier/RTD. Let’s use a figure of an additional $40,000 a year per FTE in compensation as a result of the union. $40,000 times 35,000 FTE gets me $1.4 BILLION a year in additional labor expense. That works out to precisely a 6.25% increase in the rate schedule to cover the labor expense, NOT the 10% he was talking about.

Here is where he gets that 10% figure. If he has to pay near equivalent compensation rates to his Couriers/RTD’s as UPS pays their drivers AND he has to restore the pension plan to ALL salaried employees AND he has to bring up salaried employees compensation up a bit to restore the differential in compensation between hourly and “professional” employees, he may just approach that 10% figure. In other words, Fred would lose his built in 10% cost structure advantage over UPS if he had to pay equivalent wages and compensation across all levels. That 10% is his annual profit goal. He’d have to make changes to the rate schedule, eliminate the fat in the headquarters and dramatically reduce executive compensation to get back to the profit margin as a percentage of revenue that he wants.

Working the numbers, and using FedEx’s own figures and propaganda, one can see what Fred fears. FedEx believes that the worse case scenario is looming, and they will have to pay UPS equivalent compensation across the board within a year.

As far as cutting OT and increasing stops per hour year again… It begs the questions… If we need/can have additional stops per hour now; it means that by default Couriers were screwing around in the past (don’t’ think so). If we have lower package volumes and are covering a greater geographical area per route as a result of condensing routes; it means that by default we should have fewer stops per hour (increased distance between stops means fewer stops per hour). Nope.

All they can see is that their cost per delivery is increasing when they look at the spreadsheets and the solution they see is to crack the whip and make us try to go even faster. We are actually going faster than we ever have. But it has a cost; we are spending less and less time with the customers. We perform a resi release on packages before we even leave the truck (don’t even bother to get a signature anymore). We rush our business customers to sign the power pad (even to the point of shoving it into their face), so we can get back in the truck and keep the pace up. Service is dropping, so we can try to keep up with the ever increasing stops per hour goal. By the way, weren’t stops per hour removed as part of the performance review? It is supposed to be scan compliance, safety, station work performance attendance and punctuality, isn’t it? Another FedEx falsehood in the making???

Fred must see Armageddon if he is this scared. Means the info I received regarding the SFA being a disaster for FedEx must’ve been true. Keep on feeding out the rope, and Fred will hang himself.

This tells me the momentum is with the employees. I’d be happy with getting the pension back, a 4 year top out, guarantees to preserve full time positions, some moderate increase in the pay scales (not expecting UPS wages), and possibly a reduction in the insurance premium. For a first contract this would be a big achievement. In later contracts, a gradual trend towards narrowing the gap with UPS would be a goal. What I’d like to see for a first contract is entirely achievable for FedEx without throwing them into bankruptcy (a cost to FedEx of 3.5 to 5% of their annual revenues). With some sensible changes to the business model, a very slight increase to the rate schedule and a corporate review of over-time expenses, this modest increase in expense could be covered and preserve profits at the same time.

tworavens · 06-10-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upssalesguy

ahhh like our ERI. whatever happened to that?

I was just given the ERI this morning. Complete surprise as I thought they got rid of it.

Hoaxster · 06-10-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworavens

I was just given the ERI this morning. Complete surprise as I thought they got rid of it.

You are a special person.

They are doing a random sampling.

tworavens · 06-10-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoaxster

You are a special person.

They are doing a random sampling.

Ha ha, my sup said almost the exact same thing. I think he said I was "one of the lucky ones"! Come again??!!

UpstateNYUPSer · 06-11-2009, 04:00 AM

Ricochet, thanks again for your contributions to this thread. They are very informative and have helped me to better understand the situation at FedEx.

bbsam · 06-11-2009, 08:43 AM

I have a couple serious question. If Fedex becomes covered by NLRA, why would Fedex continue to use employees and not move to a contractor model like ground where unionization is more difficult? Secondly, if Fedex were to become members of the Teamsters, and Fedex went on strike, would UPS workers strike also? Or does Teamster loyalty end at the company door?

Testicular Fortitude · 06-11-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbsam

I have a couple serious question. If Fedex becomes covered by NLRA, why would Fedex continue to use employees and not move to a contractor model like ground where unionization is more difficult? Secondly, if Fedex were to become members of the Teamsters, and Fedex went on strike, would UPS workers strike also? Or does Teamster loyalty end at the company door?

The so called Independent Contractor model is a sham.It is now in a MDL[Multi District Litigation] basically a giant class action lawsuit.Fedex Ground and Fedex Home delivery drivers are not independent contractors but employees of Fedex.Once these drivers win their lawsuit the floodgates will open.The monetary compensation to them will be in the hundreds of millions.Every state will be filing charges against Fedex to recoup all the unpaid taxes due to them.The IRS is still checking to see if the Fedex Corporation is in violation of Federal and State tax laws.

Ricochet1a · 06-11-2009, 06:59 PM

Since the topic of Ground drivers and honoring other companies strike isn't on topic with this thread, I'll start another to FULLY discuss the contractor issue.

bbsam · 06-12-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Testicular Fortitude

The so called Independent Contractor model is a sham.It is now in a MDL[Multi District Litigation] basically a giant class action lawsuit.Fedex Ground and Fedex Home delivery drivers are not independent contractors but employees of Fedex.Once these drivers win their lawsuit the floodgates will open.The monetary compensation to them will be in the hundreds of millions.Every state will be filing charges against Fedex to recoup all the unpaid taxes due to them.The IRS is still checking to see if the Fedex Corporation is in violation of Federal and State tax laws.

i have heard this sillyness before. which unpaid taxes are you talking about because i am constantly paying taxes for myself and my drivers and occasionally pay penalties and interest. if there are taxes that i am pay that i need not pay, please let me know so that i can instead apply that money to a 2010 chevy camaro (black, please, with the biggest baddest v-8 monster motor available...and throw a supercharger on it while you're at it)

Ricochet1a · 06-12-2009, 09:36 PM

Here is a link to an excellent article written by a disinterested party regarding the FedEx attempt to call the possibility of getting its RLA status revoked a "UPS Bailout"

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...air-fedex.aspx

Fred's continuing tunnel vision regarding the possibility of Express employees unionizing has blinded him to the consequences of his dirty trick; he's really ticked off about 400,000 UPS employees. Now he's added another 400,000 potential opinions wanting to have the RLA exemption pulled. I don't think in his wildest nightmares he'd imagine that his action would result in adding so much support for his employees to have the choice to unionize. This is supposed to be the shrewd business leader that can foresee the consequences of every deliberate action he takes.

If he didn't foresee the consequences of his dirty trick, he's not on his game. Possibly reacting to events in a paranoid manner...

It also appears that UPS is fighting back by offering current FedEx customers a large discount on rates if they switch (heard a 24% discount to current UPS rates). Looks like our trucks are going to be getting a little lighter in the coming months. Bravo Fred, you've pulled another Kinko's debacle when I thought you couldn't top yourself.

FDX shareholders, it is time to start getting heard. This guy would rather play scorched earth with FedEx, than act in a responsible manner with his employees and customers.

fredly00 · 06-12-2009, 10:57 PM

We had our state of the company meeting... my favorite question after they got done telling us that:

Lates are reduced, Injuries are reduced, accidents are reduced... (probably cause volume is at "mid-90's levels")

They tell us that the "employee loyalty survey" scored higher than ever..

Someone asked: "So if the company is full of so many happy employees... why are they so worried about the Union?..."

The response... "this is Fred's popcorn stand.. and Fred does what Fred wants"

That pretty much summed it up for me.. senior managers are disgruntled as well.

Ricochet1a · 06-12-2009, 11:13 PM

The frontline management was stuffed under the bus by Fred, so they are even more ticked off than the hourly employees. They made their deal with Fred, and Fred returned the favor last year by gutting their pension, cutting their pay and eliminating their bonuses.

This is why I stated that many if not most salaried employees are hopeing that the RLA exemption gets pulled. They won't immediately see the benefits, but Fred will eventually have to return the full pension to the salaried employees too (assuming the unionized employees get the pension back).

If they loyalty survey was such a success for FedEx... Why was it administered in the first place? (they knew there were problems). Why was the SFA delayed for so long? (they knew that were problems indicated on the Loyalty Survey). Why did Fred resort to the "brown bailout" website if the SFA indicated things were just peachy? (because FedEx got slaughtered on the SFA this time).

Most frontlline managers that are clear thinking, rational individuals are just as ticked off as their hourly employees, if not more. They don't have the option to restart careers without taking a major hit. As part of their job, they have to place a good face on everything that is going on. I don't have any sympathy for them, since they already chose sides in this conflict, but I do understand their situation (and communicate with many to get my information). If they could somehow sign a "managerial union card", they'd do it right now.

fredly00 · 06-12-2009, 11:33 PM

Found a Great little site,
Shows the Voting Break-down on the new bill
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-291

here is info on the bill
and the whole bill itself.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-915

TechGrrl · 06-13-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbsam

I have a couple serious question. If Fedex becomes covered by NLRA, why would Fedex continue to use employees and not move to a contractor model like ground where unionization is more difficult? Secondly, if Fedex were to become members of the Teamsters, and Fedex went on strike, would UPS workers strike also? Or does Teamster loyalty end at the company door?

Don't think it would be possible to convert the Express employee business model to contractors easily, but other postings by current FedEx employees seem to indicate Fred has a long term plan to outsource express volume to his Ground division...and undercut his Express employees even further.

As far as UPS employees striking if FedEx employees strike, what logic are you using? A strike is a collective action by employees engaged in negotiating a deal with their employer. The strike is a withholding of labor to emphasize the the employees are equals in the negotiations. Why in the name of all that is rational would UPS employees strike, since they (currently) have no beef with THEIR employer? A FedEx strike is an internal affair, UPS employees have no dog in that hunt. They would certainly support their union brothers and sisters in the effort, but engaging in a strike against their own employer in that context would be senseless.

They would probably not cross a picket line to deliver any packages to FedEx sites though!

TechGrrl · 06-13-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredly00

Found a Great little site,
Shows the Voting Break-down on the new bill
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-291

here is info on the bill
and the whole bill itself.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-915

I found it interesting that Fred doesn't have the entire Tennessee delegation under his thumb. 5 of 9 Reps voted in favor of the bill....hmmmm. No wonder Fred is in a state of panic.

TechGrrl · 06-13-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

Here is a link to an excellent article written by a disinterested party regarding the FedEx attempt to call the possibility of getting its RLA status revoked a "UPS Bailout"

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...air-fedex.aspx

Fred's continuing tunnel vision regarding the possibility of Express employees unionizing has blinded him to the consequences of his dirty trick; he's really ticked off about 400,000 UPS employees. Now he's added another 400,000 potential opinions wanting to have the RLA exemption pulled. I don't think in his wildest nightmares he'd imagine that his action would result in adding so much support for his employees to have the choice to unionize. This is supposed to be the shrewd business leader that can foresee the consequences of every deliberate action he takes.

If he didn't foresee the consequences of his dirty trick, he's not on his game. Possibly reacting to events in a paranoid manner...

It also appears that UPS is fighting back by offering current FedEx customers a large discount on rates if they switch (heard a 24% discount to current UPS rates). Looks like our trucks are going to be getting a little lighter in the coming months. Bravo Fred, you've pulled another Kinko's debacle when I thought you couldn't top yourself.

FDX shareholders, it is time to start getting heard. This guy would rather play scorched earth with FedEx, than act in a responsible manner with his employees and customers.

Not just the current employees, but all the retirees, as well. I got an email from retiree relations stating that the Corporate office in Atlanta had been flooded with calls, emails, etc. from so many people that they were sending out this email (which they had stopped doing in favor of a web site) to point folks to the web site for feedback.

UPS is in good financial shape, even in a down economy. Good cash flow, large piggy bank. The LAST thing anyone wants to do is start off a full scale price war, and in the past, we have both avoided that, but it looks like Fred finally screwed the pooch (Marine aviator term) and woke the sleeping giant. If he wants to play scorched earth, UPS has deeper pockets.

bbsam · 06-13-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechGrrl

Don't think it would be possible to convert the Express employee business model to contractors easily, but other postings by current FedEx employees seem to indicate Fred has a long term plan to outsource express volume to his Ground division...and undercut his Express employees even further.

As far as UPS employees striking if FedEx employees strike, what logic are you using? A strike is a collective action by employees engaged in negotiating a deal with their employer. The strike is a withholding of labor to emphasize the the employees are equals in the negotiations. Why in the name of all that is rational would UPS employees strike, since they (currently) have no beef with THEIR employer? A FedEx strike is an internal affair, UPS employees have no dog in that hunt. They would certainly support their union brothers and sisters in the effort, but engaging in a strike against their own employer in that context would be senseless.

They would probably not cross a picket line to deliver any packages to FedEx sites though!

the only logic i am using is what can the union do for me? just think of the devastatingly effective attention the teamsters could have garnered had every teamter rig shut down in the strike against ups. it seems to me that the "brotherhood" could have really had their way and unions would truly be strong today. absent the possibility of ups striking with their "fedex union brothers" i am suspicious of ups union members concerning themselves with my membership or lack thereof. forgive me if i question the motives of my competitor, but sites like "fedex watch" seemed aimed more at the demonization of fred smith and fedex and little to do with addressing something of more primary concern, namely the relatively small involvement in the union of current members.

MrFedEx · 06-13-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredly00

We had our state of the company meeting... my favorite question after they got done telling us that:

Lates are reduced, Injuries are reduced, accidents are reduced... (probably cause volume is at "mid-90's levels")

They tell us that the "employee loyalty survey" scored higher than ever..

Someone asked: "So if the company is full of so many happy employees... why are they so worried about the Union?..."

The response... "this is Fred's popcorn stand.. and Fred does what Fred wants"

That pretty much summed it up for me.. senior managers are disgruntled as well.

Nobody but upper management knows what the true SFA results are, and only a moron would believe they are telling the truth this year. Does anyone really think that they would release an SFA that showed the sheep were displeased in any way? Their results get "better" every year because that's what the propaganda machine is supposed to say. Same Kool-Aid, just a different flavor this year.

You make a great point. If everything is so great, why even fight the end of the RLA exemption? After all, all of us "happy" employees would just say no to an evil union, right?

Fred is terrified that he might actually have to pay us a living wage and maybe even have a retirement plan again. The RLA deal has given Smith complete control over his workforce (except the pilots), and he doesn't want the fairy tale to end.

fredly00 · 06-16-2009, 06:54 PM

Interesting things happening at our station, our 2 managers(and our 23 routes) have been out every day for the past two weeks doing ride alongs... I had mine "by request"
about a month ago. I got my 6.9 would have had a 7.0 but because apparently my "safe driving" doesn't count until I've been in place for 12 months.(just transferred in) not like it matters, "if" we were getting raises it would equate to .01 cent... whoopdee do!

barnyard · 06-21-2009, 07:29 PM

It's funny to me that most people seem to think that a change in the RLA rules would mean immediate unionization of FedEx. Right to work states might not see an organizer for years. If the rules change, I would bet that it takes a year to identify the 1st station to organize, a year to get it done and another year to get a contract (maybe more, look at Overnite Transportation, owned by Union Pacific, a union railroad.)

I would almost bet that if the RLA is changed and IF a station is organized, that Fred himself would sit in on negotiations. I'd also bet that it will/would not be pretty.

Once that happens, then start getting card checks at other stations. Problem is, 3-5 years later is enough time to integrate the networks.

If I were a FedEx employee, I would be concerned for my future. Not because FedEx may go out of business, but because they may embrace the IC for all their operations.

MrFedEx · 06-21-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

The frontline management was stuffed under the bus by Fred, so they are even more ticked off than the hourly employees. They made their deal with Fred, and Fred returned the favor last year by gutting their pension, cutting their pay and eliminating their bonuses.

This is why I stated that many if not most salaried employees are hopeing that the RLA exemption gets pulled. They won't immediately see the benefits, but Fred will eventually have to return the full pension to the salaried employees too (assuming the unionized employees get the pension back).

If they loyalty survey was such a success for FedEx... Why was it administered in the first place? (they knew there were problems). Why was the SFA delayed for so long? (they knew that were problems indicated on the Loyalty Survey). Why did Fred resort to the "brown bailout" website if the SFA indicated things were just peachy? (because FedEx got slaughtered on the SFA this time).

Most frontlline managers that are clear thinking, rational individuals are just as ticked off as their hourly employees, if not more. They don't have the option to restart careers without taking a major hit. As part of their job, they have to place a good face on everything that is going on. I don't have any sympathy for them, since they already chose sides in this conflict, but I do understand their situation (and communicate with many to get my information). If they could somehow sign a "managerial union card", they'd do it right now.

Great comment on the managers....spot on. Many of them are on our side but have to hard-sell the BS even though they think it's crap too. That's where I get a lot of my info and most of them aren't shy about telling me how unhappy they are and how they feel like hypocrites peddling this filth.

When my senior talks about unions it's like he's quoting from a script (which he is) and you can tell his heart isn't in it. Like you said, it's hard to feel too sorry for them because they knew that being a liar was part of the program from the get go. It makes you wonder how many of the top dogs in Memphis wish Fred would shuffle off into retirement and STFU so they could possibly start steering the ship in the right direction for a change.