FedEx Ground Moving Via Express?

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by bbsam

No. I don't want more. I want numbers. I want them posted so that we can quantify the data. I have already stipulated to the fact that Ground has it's share of problems. But every statement you have posted I have heard applied to Ups. Again, annectdotal evidence is considered the weakest. This is an opportunity to strengthen your assertion that Grounds service lags far behind the competition.

So aren't you just a little curious what the empirical evidence would reveal? Or is your personal experience so vast that no evidence contrary to your own personal persuasion need be considered?

Here's my (anecdotal) evidence. Whenever I see a UPS driver he/she is;

1. Neatly and properly uniformed.

2. Moving at a brisk professional pace using proper methods.

3. Driving an immaculately clean truck with no dents, large scratches or a loose bumper about to fall in the street.

4. Minus tattoos, beards,long dirty hair, piercings, cigarette or an attitude.

5. Operating their vehicle in a professional manner, using flashers at residential stops, honking the horn before backing and not aimlessly driving around a neighborhood looking for an address. In other words, they know exactly where they are going and what they are doing. I've rarely seen a UPS driver operate their vehicle in an unsafe manner.

I don't have any numbers, but I know a professional when I see one.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by bbsam

No. I don't want more. I want numbers. I want them posted so that we can quantify the data. I have already stipulated to the fact that Ground has it's share of problems. But every statement you have posted I have heard applied to Ups. Again, annectdotal evidence is considered the weakest. This is an opportunity to strengthen your assertion that Grounds service lags far behind the competition.

So aren't you just a little curious what the empirical evidence would reveal? Or is your personal experience so vast that no evidence contrary to your own personal persuasion need be considered?

I can't edit my posts so I'll add the comment that I seldom hear customers complaining about either UPS service or drivers. Occasionally they'll get a damaged or late pkg, but most shippers like their service. They especially like the fact that they don't have to deal with multiple versions of UPS every day. Again, it's anecdotal because I don't have access to the numbers. They also like the fact that they almost always have the same driver, one who knows the nuances of their particular situation(s). In the revolving door that is FedEx Ground, a shipper will probably see many new faces during the year.

FedEx is especially aware that customers are confused and angered by the lack of cohesiveness between the different operating companies. And they're right....why is it their problem to make the distinction?

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

FedEx express delivered a FedEx ground package of mine. What happened was, the ground driver took the pkg to the wrong place ( UPS) according to tracking . I called FedEx and sure enough, no more than 3 hours later, the Express driver brought it to me. This was around 2years ago.

Now it all makes sense

[Ricochet1a]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

FedEx express delivered a FedEx ground package of mine. What happened was, the ground driver took the pkg to the wrong place ( UPS) according to tracking . I called FedEx and sure enough, no more than 3 hours later, the Express driver brought it to me. This was around 2years ago.

Now it all makes sense

This actually happens quite a lot. Express dispatchers attempt to solve problems created by Ground - like the one you mentioned - by having Express Couriers retreive misdelivered packages and deliver them to the correct location. Problem is, this is all "off the record". We can't scan the item to indicate it is in our possession, we can't perform a proof of delivery scan (POD), we just do it as a "favor".

I don't do this any more. If I get a request to pick up a Ground package I refuse. What are they going to do to me???? They can't even issue an OLCC for refusing to touch a Ground package; if they try, I've got my 6 figure separation bonus from FedEx waiting - after a year or so of litigation.

This has been an increasing problem for Express Couriers. Ground drivers don't have instant communication with a FedEx dispatcher to solve problems, so Express Couriers are used to solve problems created by misdelivery of Ground packages. I won't do it any longer.

The same problem occurs when customers place an oncall pickup request for Ground packages and the request comes through as an Express pickup. We arrive (Express Couriers) and the customers expect us to take the package. I don't touch them anymore. I indicate "no package", "Ground package" on my handheld and close out the stop. I've had repeated requests to pick up Ground packages from the same location and I walk away with no package - and the customer gets a little ticked off.

I do sympathize with them, but I'm not going to cover for the inability of FedEx to properly manage Ground operations. If FedEx wants to provide service for Ground packages while simultaneously playing the IC game, they can solve the problems without skirting the letter of the law which they use to separate Express from Ground.

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Then there's the times that you get there and the customer says "the other FredEx guy just left with it..." Dispatch, bless their little hearts (southern terminology for idiots..) just don't get it, but then they usually get that call from the call center.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

An FDR is a manifest showing exactly what is onboard the aircraft and it's destination. Sorry, but that IS concrete proof. Like I said, if you actually worked for FedEx you'd have a clue. Ground is moving via Express...that's it. Tell your manager that the cat is out of the bag.

It's amazing to see the things people can make up but not think through. Why would Express put a Ground package on their planes? There is not a Ground hub in Memphis and they don't sort Ground packages at the Memphis hub (or is it a conspiracy that 6,000 hub workers aren't talking about!?) So, what would they do with the Ground packages? Think through your stories a little. The only "ground" freight being carried on a FedEx jet is the USPS freight, which is sorted in Memphis on the day-turn. Did you not think how easy it would be to disprove your "story"? But please, provide us with a Ground tracking number that shows it's movement through Memphis and not a Ground hub!

A Ground driver picking up an Express package and taking it back to his station for an Express driver to pick up later is no different than an Express driver finding a UPS package in his dropbox and taking back to the station for a UPS driver to pickup. Happens every day so SOMEBODY BETTER ALERT THE AUTHORITIES!!

But what I can't figure out is, if you folks are so bitter about your jobs, how stupid must you be to still be doing it?! If you're as smart as you seem to think you are, you should have no problem finding something better.

[MrFedEx]

[QUOTE=Winger;591522]It's amazing to see the things people can make up but not think through. Why would Express put a Ground package on their planes? There is not a Ground hub in Memphis and they don't sort Ground packages at the Memphis hub (or is it a conspiracy that 6,000 hub workers aren't talking about!?) So, what would they do with the Ground packages? Think through your stories a little. The only "ground" freight being carried on a FedEx jet is the USPS freight, which is sorted in Memphis on the day-turn. Did you not think how easy it would be to disprove your "story"? But please, provide us with a Ground tracking number that shows it's movement through Memphis and not a Ground hub!

A Ground driver picking up an Express package and taking it back to his station for an Express driver to pick up later is no different than an Express driver finding a UPS package in his

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by Winger

It's amazing to see the things people can make up but not think through. Why would Express put a Ground package on their planes? There is not a Ground hub in Memphis and they don't sort Ground packages at the Memphis hub (or is it a conspiracy that 6,000 hub workers aren't talking about!?) So, what would they do with the Ground packages? Think through your stories a little. The only "ground" freight being carried on a FedEx jet is the USPS freight, which is sorted in Memphis on the day-turn. Did you not think how easy it would be to disprove your "story"? But please, provide us with a Ground tracking number that shows it's movement through Memphis and not a Ground hub!

A Ground driver picking up an Express package and taking it back to his station for an Express driver to pick up later is no different than an Express driver finding a UPS package in his dropbox and taking back to the station for a UPS driver to pickup. Happens every day so SOMEBODY BETTER ALERT THE AUTHORITIES!!

But what I can't figure out is, if you folks are so bitter about your jobs, how stupid must you be to still be doing it?! If you're as smart as you seem to think you are, you should have no problem finding something better.

Ground is moving on FedEx aircraft every day. All it takes is for a Ground truck or contractor to bring it to the ramp, containerize it, and send it on the plane. Why do you think there are a bunch of roller-bed equipped Ground trailers out there that can only handle air containers? Oh yes, and what about the Ground stations that are now set-up with lifts and ballmats so they can containerize it and haul it themselves in the above-mentioned air-only Ground trailers?

Here's a couple of reasons why Ground moves on our planes. First, the planes aren't full, so why not top them off with Ground. Second, remote areas (like Alaska) get their Ground by FedEx aircraft all the time. Please disprove any of this. A Ground tracking number won't show that it's moved via Express aircraft because FedEx doesn't want anyone knowing that they do it..all the time. As I explained, it does show-up on the aircraft FDR as Ground. Do you even know what I'm talking about? I doubt it.

The reason this is is a big deal is that FedEx Ground and Air operations are supposed to be separate. Fred and his shills claim that Ground and Air are not integrated operations...a big, fat lie that they use to make the public and politicians think that we're completely different than UPS in terms of our operating practices. More lies and distortions that the unknowing like yourself drink-in like purple and orange Kool-Aid.

You've been shot down...in flames.

[bbsam]

actually, I think Ground has always moved things with express to Hawaii, Peurto Rico, etc.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by bbsam

actually, I think Ground has always moved things with express to Hawaii, Peurto Rico, etc.

Please inform "Winger".

[starglacier]

All flowers shipments from west coast for sure.

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

They opened up part of a HUB near me, (won't mention where but the more astute will figure it out) to Ground trucking, basically gave them run of an Express facility because it wasn't running at capacity. And yes it's still a HUB to all of us, even if it went AGFS...

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS

They opened up part of a HUB near me, (won't mention where but the more astute will figure it out) to Ground trucking, basically gave them run of an Express facility because it wasn't running at capacity. And yes it's still a HUB to all of us, even if it went AGFS...

Don't reveal your location, but AGFS is still Express, not Ground. Are you saying that Ground drivers have taken over the functions of Express RTD's?

[bbsam]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

Don't reveal your location, but AGFS is still Express, not Ground. Are you saying that Ground drivers have taken over the functions of Express RTD's?

just a matter of time, as I've been saying.

[MrFedEx]

I'm hoping he's got AGFS and Ground lumped together.

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Let me clear that up. They are using the Express FACILITY to process their freight...although, the hostlers in the yard are allowed to help them out with trailer movements, our RTD's are safe from that...for now. Their equipment and drivers, our building and conveyor system.

And no, I'm not lumping 2 COMPLETELY SEPARATE entities...our shirts have the orange "ex", theirs are green....lol

[bbsam]

tick tock tick tock

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Originally Posted by bbsam

tick tock tick tock

Now I feel like I'm in a Pink Floyd song...lol

[Brown287]

What amazes me is that to curtail Ground business away from UPS Fed-Ex needs to have an campaign of mis-information. An acount that switched to Fed-Ex has been told by Fed-Ex to get around the fact that thier ground pickup happens at 9AM in the morning is to take all thier ground packages and drop them in the Express box. Is that not against the law, according to Fed-Ex, Express and Ground are two intirely different companies. That would be as if they put them in the UPS box and expected us to transfer them. Is this not a clear example of Ground moving via Express. Trust me then theres the fact that damn near evry Ground driver Ive ever come across some how seems to have a UPS hand-cart. ***. Express drivers beware if this ground model doesnt get canned your position too will be contracted out.

[Washu234]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

I doubt that.There are stickers on most drop boxes that clearly say no Ground Shipments in this Box.

I'm not so sure about the 'clearly' part. Its a little strip of green in a vast of Orange that says "FedEx Ground Shipments are not accepted at this location".
THe marking is poor at best not to mention that customers seem to ignore all writing on the drop box. Just last week dispatch 'reminded' us to check the supply section as customers often get confused and leave their letters on top of the supplies.

Sigh. FedEx Ground will be the end of the FedEx brand.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

I doubt that.There are stickers on most drop boxes that clearly say no Ground Shipments in this Box.

Customers know that if they dump their Ground in the Express drop box that we'll take care of it. It's not like we're going to take it back to them or refuse it.

The larger issue is Express handling Ground at all. As FedEx always says, "Ground and Air are separate entities" and the Express system is an "airline". They don't want anyone knowing how much the 2 systems are already integrated. Why do you think the Ground trailers that used to be parked on Express ramps have been moved? Fred also doesn't want anyone knowing that Ground moves via Express frequently because it weakens his case and makes some of the Brownbailout.com claims look like the lies they are.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

I doubt that.There are stickers on most drop boxes that clearly say no Ground Shipments in this Box.

Yeah...so...


Our UPS dropboxes are clearly labeled yet I find USPS or FedEx pkgs in them at least once or twice a week. Our dropboxes also say that no pkg with a value exceeding $500 should be left but I get ASDs with pkg values higher than that all the time. Our dropboxes also say that pkgs should not be left outside the box but... you get the picture.

I do doubt that an account exec is telling P/U customers to put ground pkgs in express dropboxes. Of course,a P/U time of 9am is telling the customer we don't care about your business and would be a prime target for a UPS sales lead. Where is this business located?

[MrFedEx]

We find everyone else's pkgs too and when they get returned to the customer they are actually usually outraged because their parcel didn't get delivered. I took an Express Mail envelope back to a customer a few years ago and she proceeded to berate me for about 5 minutes about "how crucial this item was", "what a crappy company FedEx was" and on and on. When I calmly explained to her that FedEx and the USPS were separate entities she didn't believe me. At that point there was nothing to do but leave. I didn't dare tell her that we actually do handle Express Mail airport to airport because that would have been far too complicated for her brain to comprehend.

[Brown287]

Actually its a national account that was lost out of Chicago. So much for being a good Union town! The drop box is right next to my box so I see it every day and have daily conversations with the Express driver since we both have 4:30 pickups. Its a colledge bookstore that we also both deliver to, so the Express driver and I have talked about this issue in great length. The Express driver himself has explained to the manager of the store that NO GROUND packages are allowed in the drop box and she has explained that Fed-Ex has said that she could. Heck if I knew who to contact about this clear violation I would. I dont begrudge either the Ground driver or the Express driver but this is a clear example of how Fed-Ex takes no laws seriouslly.

[59 Dano]

Digging up an old post to clarify some good points that were raised....

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

The more and more it gets out that Ground and Express have "ties", the less and less Fred will be able to keep arguing that they are completely separate operating companies that should have different rules attached to each regarding the status of employees (or those who just happen to wear a FedEx uniform, but aren't "officially" employees).

Express and Ground can have as many "ties" as they want with each other without issue. Of course, that's dependent upon what those ties actually are and what they accomplish.

Fred's plans include the integration of Express and Ground to the extent where Ground will someday soon start delivering non-overnight Express volume. This will be pulled off with a changing of money from one pocket of FedEx Corporation to the other. Express will "pay" a fee per piece that is transferred to Ground for delivery, and Ground will receive that fee to cover their costs of making said delivery. From the stand point of the "separate" operating companies (Express and Ground), it will be a payment for service provided by another "company". From the perspective of FedEx Corporation, it will be a movement of funds under the Express ledger, over to the Ground ledger. FedEx keeps all the money under its name, and is able to get delivery accomplished with the lower cost structure of Ground. Fred-o-nomics at work.

There's a big problem with this (back to those "ties"!).

If Ground is paying Express to fly packages, that's not much of an issue so long as it's being done properly. By that, I mean that Express is providing a service to Ground that Ground can't provide for itself. Also, it assumes that Express is invoicing Ground whatever the fee is, and Ground is remitting that amount to Express, and both are properly recording the transactions.

The scenario that you present is a different story.

Pulling the ol' switcheroo like that could get FDX in all sorts of trouble and would crush any hopes of future RLA classifications. Using Ground trucks to deliver Express freight --even though the fees have been paid from one division to the other-- when you've got Express trucks that are to be used for that purpose is an invitation for a headache.

From the legal, regulatory, and legislative perspectives, it doesn't pass the smell test. While they may be operating as "separate" companies and jumping through the relevant hoops, there comes a point when it's hard to separate one from the other -- especially when one is doing the job that the other is also doing.

It is of course legal, but it does raise issues about the supposed independent operation of each company under FedEx Corporation. When the cooperation between companies under a master corporation is this close, it does create issues with perception and the politics of having both the RLA and IC model operating at the same time. No one but Fred would even dream of trying to pull off such a charade, but it looks like he may just pull it off.

IMO, the most compelling reason that that wouldn't happen is the RLA. Technically, they'd be doing everything right, but hiring their own ground subsidiary to deliver packages from their own air subsidiary (which already has a dedicated fleet of trucks for that purpose) would be suicide.

Even though I think politicians are the most stupid class of people in the country, I think they're capable of recognizing something that so blatanly flouts the spirit of the rules.

Also, thank you for making a well-thought out post.