FedEx Ground Moving Via Express?

[MrFedEx]

It was brought to my attention today that FedEx Express aircraft are now flying Ground packages. We aren't supposed to know this, but it's happening. Perhaps we should all mention this at our next station meeting and watch the manager's jaw hit the floor.

This may be a prelude to XS and E2 going over to Ground, or it might just be a utilization of excess lift capacity. Either way, aren't these operations claimed to be separate according to Mr Smith? That kind of makes a lot of the claims on Brownbailout.com bogus, doesn't it? More lies and cover-ups from the master of both.

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

That ranks up there with "you will NEVER see Express packages on a Ground truck..." that was when FredEx bought RPS, a month later, saw EXPRESS packages on a GROUND truck. Also, the hub near me (not the ramp) has been moving Ground freight through it for some time now.

[Broke]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

It was brought to my attention today that FedEx Express aircraft are now flying Ground packages. We aren't supposed to know this, but it's happening. Perhaps we should all mention this at our next station meeting and watch the manager's jaw hit the floor.

This may be a prelude to XS and E2 going over to Ground, or it might just be a utilization of excess lift capacity. Either way, aren't these operations claimed to be separate according to Mr Smith? That kind of makes a lot of the claims on Brownbailout.com bogus, doesn't it? More lies and cover-ups from the master of both.

Another thing to consider is Ground pkgs are in my dropbox daily and I have to transport them back to my station where a Ground driver comes by each day at 5:30 and picks up all ground pkgs at our station.Though I can't scan these pkgs, this is another example of our operations not being completely seperate.

[DorkHead]

Originally Posted by DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS

That ranks up there with "you will NEVER see Express packages on a Ground truck..." that was when FredEx bought RPS, a month later, saw EXPRESS packages on a GROUND truck. Also, the hub near me (not the ramp) has been moving Ground freight through it for some time now.

I see the FDX ground driver picking up Express letters at one of my pickups 2 or 3 times a week.

[bbsam]

Hmmmm.

[FedEx All the Way!]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

It was brought to my attention today that FedEx Express aircraft are now flying Ground packages. We aren't supposed to know this, but it's happening. Perhaps we should all mention this at our next station meeting and watch the manager's jaw hit the floor.

This may be a prelude to XS and E2 going over to Ground, or it might just be a utilization of excess lift capacity. Either way, aren't these operations claimed to be separate according to Mr Smith? That kind of makes a lot of the claims on Brownbailout.com bogus, doesn't it? More lies and cover-ups from the master of both.

OH MY GOD! Is there anything you don't know about Fred or FedEx? You really are something else. You're always on top of everything. Maybe UPS can use you over on their side against FedEx -

[Brown287]

From what I understand isnt it actually against the law for either FDX Ground or FDX Express from moving each others packages. Apart from just another example of what we all know to be true, its is actually due to the fact that currently FDX Ground is covered under the NLRA and Express is under the RLA. Its actions like this that show the true level of integrity at Fed Ex. Which is zero!

[Just Numbers]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

What proof do you have of this?

What proof do you have that this is not happening?

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

What proof do you have of this?

An aircraft FDR showing Ground freight onboard and conversations with the ramp agents who had knowledge of same. You don't even work for FedEx, so you wouldn't have any idea of what I just wrote.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEx All the Way!

OH MY GOD! Is there anything you don't know about Fred or FedEx? You really are something else. You're always on top of everything. Maybe UPS can use you over on their side against FedEx -

You're right.. I AM on top of it because it is in my best interests to remain informed. That would make me the polar opposite of you...uninformed, speculative, and naive.

[upssalesguy]

awww poor fredexers. i think there is going to be some major cry in this thread from the two fedex honks.

[upssalesguy]

Originally Posted by Brown287

From what I understand isnt it actually against the law for either FDX Ground or FDX Express from moving each others packages. Apart from just another example of what we all know to be true, its is actually due to the fact that currently FDX Ground is covered under the NLRA and Express is under the RLA. Its actions like this that show the true level of integrity at Fed Ex. Which is zero!

they tell their customers they are completly seperate. it is lying, plain and simple.

[Ricochet1a]

I haven't been able to confirm this on my own, but it does make some sense. Express aircraft are flying with many voids on them, and if they can fill up those spaces with Ground freight out of the Memphis market, they can cut a day or two on shipping time to the east and west coasts. By moving Ground packages at "Express" speed, FedEx may be trying to steal market share from UPS out of the Memphis market and possibly the entire south east.

All FedEx has to do is have the Express "company" charge the lowest possible rate for the space on the aircraft, and Ground would pay that. It is just shifting money from one pocket to another if this is what is going on. The aircraft have to fly, so might as wll fill them up with something, the marginal increase in cost for having that extra weight on the aircraft is practically nil. It would amount to about $3 in fuel for every extra 100 pounds moved to either the east or west coast. If they are adding 15,000 pounds to the aircraft, the marginal cost increase would be about $500 or so. Well worth the price if they can shave a couple of days of the transit time off of Ground packages in an effort to take market share.

It would be all part of the charade of FedEx claiming Express and Ground are two separate operating companies, but are cooperating with each other at every opportunity.

[bbsam]

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

I haven't been able to confirm this on my own, but it does make some sense. Express aircraft are flying with many voids on them, and if they can fill up those spaces with Ground freight out of the Memphis market, they can cut a day or two on shipping time to the east and west coasts. By moving Ground packages at "Express" speed, FedEx may be trying to steal market share from UPS out of the Memphis market and possibly the entire south east.

All FedEx has to do is have the Express "company" charge the lowest possible rate for the space on the aircraft, and Ground would pay that. It is just shifting money from one pocket to another if this is what is going on. The aircraft have to fly, so might as wll fill them up with something, the marginal increase in cost for having that extra weight on the aircraft is practically nil. It would amount to about $3 in fuel for every extra 100 pounds moved to either the east or west coast. If they are adding 15,000 pounds to the aircraft, the marginal cost increase would be about $500 or so. Well worth the price if they can shave a couple of days of the transit time off of Ground packages in an effort to take market share.

It would be all part of the charade of FedEx claiming Express and Ground are two separate operating companies, but are cooperating with each other at every opportunity.

So then it would be as though Ground were leasing space on the aircraft as the UPS deal with DHL was supposed to be? Or that FedEx leases aircraft to the USPS? So does the closeness of the relationship even matter? We have co-locations where Home Delivery pays a portion of the lease at a Ground facility. Would that be along the same lines?

[Ricochet1a]

Originally Posted by bbsam

So then it would be as though Ground were leasing space on the aircraft as the UPS deal with DHL was supposed to be? Or that FedEx leases aircraft to the USPS? So does the closeness of the relationship even matter? We have co-locations where Home Delivery pays a portion of the lease at a Ground facility. Would that be along the same lines?

Exactly

The closeness of the relationship in this case DOES matter because of the artificial divide between Express and Ground. Express and Ground are organized with one primary intent, to keep unions out at any expense. Express has the RLA and Ground has the IC model. The reality isn't as important here as is the politics and perception.

The more and more it gets out that Ground and Express have "ties", the less and less Fred will be able to keep arguing that they are completely separate operating companies that should have different rules attached to each regarding the status of employees (or those who just happen to wear a FedEx uniform, but aren't "officially" employees).

Fred's plans include the integration of Express and Ground to the extent where Ground will someday soon start delivering non-overnight Express volume. This will be pulled off with a changing of money from one pocket of FedEx Corporation to the other. Express will "pay" a fee per piece that is transferred to Ground for delivery, and Ground will receive that fee to cover their costs of making said delivery. From the stand point of the "separate" operating companies (Express and Ground), it will be a payment for service provided by another "company". From the perspective of FedEx Corporation, it will be a movement of funds under the Express ledger, over to the Ground ledger. FedEx keeps all the money under its name, and is able to get delivery accomplished with the lower cost structure of Ground. Fred-o-nomics at work.

It is of course legal, but it does raise issues about the supposed independent operation of each company under FedEx Corporation. When the cooperation between companies under a master corporation is this close, it does create issues with perception and the politics of having both the RLA and IC model operating at the same time. No one but Fred would even dream of trying to pull off such a charade, but it looks like he may just pull it off.

The way it looks, Express will keep its RLA classification, and Fred will wait for the storm to die down before he starts diverting non-overnight volume over to Ground. Once this happens, he won't have to worry about Express unionizing. Express will be turned into a near total part-time employee operation, and Ground will be chugging away delivering packages for a fraction of the cost structure of either Express or UPS. The days of FedEx providing middle class employment for its employees (whether they are Express of the Ground "helpers") will have come to an official end. FedEx will have completed its transformation into a low wage company, with a core of salaried professionals making sure it all keeps moving on time. The dream of every MBA out there.

[bbsam]

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

Exactly

The closeness of the relationship in this case DOES matter because of the artificial divide between Express and Ground. Express and Ground are organized with one primary intent, to keep unions out at any expense. Express has the RLA and Ground has the IC model. The reality isn't as important here as is the politics and perception.

The more and more it gets out that Ground and Express have "ties", the less and less Fred will be able to keep arguing that they are completely separate operating companies that should have different rules attached to each regarding the status of employees (or those who just happen to wear a FedEx uniform, but aren't "officially" employees).

Fred's plans include the integration of Express and Ground to the extent where Ground will someday soon start delivering non-overnight Express volume. This will be pulled off with a changing of money from one pocket of FedEx Corporation to the other. Express will "pay" a fee per piece that is transferred to Ground for delivery, and Ground will receive that fee to cover their costs of making said delivery. From the stand point of the "separate" operating companies (Express and Ground), it will be a payment for service provided by another "company". From the perspective of FedEx Corporation, it will be a movement of funds under the Express ledger, over to the Ground ledger. FedEx keeps all the money under its name, and is able to get delivery accomplished with the lower cost structure of Ground. Fred-o-nomics at work.

It is of course legal, but it does raise issues about the supposed independent operation of each company under FedEx Corporation. When the cooperation between companies under a master corporation is this close, it does create issues with perception and the politics of having both the RLA and IC model operating at the same time. No one but Fred would even dream of trying to pull off such a charade, but it looks like he may just pull it off.

The way it looks, Express will keep its RLA classification, and Fred will wait for the storm to die down before he starts diverting non-overnight volume over to Ground. Once this happens, he won't have to worry about Express unionizing. Express will be turned into a near total part-time employee operation, and Ground will be chugging away delivering packages for a fraction of the cost structure of either Express or UPS. The days of FedEx providing middle class employment for its employees (whether they are Express of the Ground "helpers") will have come to an official end. FedEx will have completed its transformation into a low wage company, with a core of salaried professionals making sure it all keeps moving on time. The dream of every MBA out there.

Exactly my point. But what I don't understand is why in the long run the RLA classification will even matter. If that classification were to be changed to the NLRA, wouldn't that merely hasten the transformation? In that case why would he even need the appearance of two companies?

[Ricochet1a]

The RLA classification matters because it keeps unions out in the short term (next 5 or so years). If Express was organized under NLRA and Fred started to shift volume over to Ground, the Express Couriers WOULD immediately start to organize and strike. Even the slow witted would understand that Fred's plan would mean the near elimination of the full-time Express Courier and would shut down Express to stop it. As part of any union negotiation, Express couriers would include a demand that all Express volume stay within Express, no outsourcing. The exact same issue that the FedEx aviation mechanics are wanting to include in a potential contract, no outsourcing of work.

If Fred had to sign a contract that would agree to keep all Express volume within Express, it would tie his hands with regard to cutting his cost structure. So in reality, it is all a matter of timing from Fred's perspective. From Fred's perspective, he has to keep the unions out to let him progress on his schedule. A union could possibly ruin his plans to move volume over to Ground (clause to not outsource in a contract).

1. Defeat all attempts to get Express reclassified under NLRA. (Looking good for FedEx).

2. Maintain the IC model of Ground. (Managed to defeat numerous legal challenges to this structure).

3. Implement the technology (ROADS) in Express to enable Couriers to be taken off the AM sort and replaced with low wage handlers to run the sort, load the trucks and get all pieces into stop order. (In progess for the past year, should have the software perfected in another 12-18 months).

4. Begin/complete the installation of caster decking in Ground terminals to enable cargo containers of non-overnight Express volume to be transferred directly to Ground for sorting and delivery by Ground IC's. (In progress).

5. Start the transfer of Express volume to Ground to save on delivery expense. (Probably start 18-24 months from now).

6. Begin the elimination of full time Couriers within FedEx. All routes would be reconfigured to require a part-time Courier. No full-time Courier would be eliminated, but should they retire or quit, the position would be transformed into a part-time position. Full-time Couriers still on the job would be required to make overnight deliveries in the AM, take an extended break, then perform a pick-up route in the late afternoon. (Will presumably start at the same time Express volume is transferred to Ground). Not many full-time Couriers will like working a 3-4 hour morning shift, taking an extended break mid day (in the field) then working a 3-4 hour afternoon shift. I'm sure part of the transformation would require all full-time Couriers to work a 4x10 schedule instead of a 5x8, meaning no opportunity for overtime. Not many would put up with this for more than a year or so.

It is all a matter of timing for FedEx (as is all things). If a union were to get into the mix before this was completed, Express could be shut down by striking Couriers and Fred would have the FedEx brand suffer because of the disruptions. Fred is dependent on the Couriers continuing their work as if nothing is going to happen; THEN he can make the change to the business models of both Ground and Express. He needs the non-unionized Express Courier to continue like nothing is going to happen to them for the next couple of years. THEN he can drop the bomb and start the transformation. All the Kool-Aid drinking Couriers would be left scratching their collective heads wondering what the heck happened. What will have happened is that they will have given FedEx the opportunity to pull their career out from under their feet and they were none the wiser for it while it was going on.

Fred has engaged in behavior like this before. When Flying Tigers was acquired in '84 (I think that is the date), there were "flight attendants" with Flying Tigers. Flying Tigers offered passenger service on their aircraft to help get some additional revenue. In order to have passengers, there had to be flight attendents. The Flying Tigers flight attendents were unionized at the time of its acquisition by FedEx. Fred gave the option to the flight attendents to either de-certify their union, or he'd shut down the passenger service aboard the now FedEx jets. The attendents didn't de-certify and FedEx eliminated all passenger service aboard its jets, the attendents were no longer needed and eliminated. Fred kept out a non-pilot union, even at the expense of losing revenue. This is how far Fred will go to keep out a union. He's done it with Express, he did it with the choosing of the business model of Ground, and he's going to continue to do it until he can turn Express into a part-time operation.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Thats not proof.

An FDR is a manifest showing exactly what is onboard the aircraft and it's destination. Sorry, but that IS concrete proof. Like I said, if you actually worked for FedEx you'd have a clue. Ground is moving via Express...that's it. Tell your manager that the cat is out of the bag.

[Ricochet1a]

I think what Mr Kool-Aid was asking for was some sort of data element from the FDR.

Now... there is a way to get this out for everyone who has access to that portion of FAMIS that deals with Flight Dispatch Reports. Get the flight number and Zulu date up and people can get into FAMIS and look at the report themselves. Would also need origin and destination of the flight to make it easy to pull up.

However, this could be dangerous for the ramp agents at the receiving ramp, since it would show at least one of them spoke with Mr. FedEx to release this information.

I know the ramp agents at MEMH are good about filling in the comments section next to each position of the FDR with the composition of the cans on each flight. It makes unloading the aircraft MUCH easier knowing what is USPS, what is mini-sort and what is HWT before the aircraft lands. They're even pretty good at listing which cans have mixed contents (mini sort and USPS for example).

Another approach would be just to list the CONS number of the can in question (containing Ground freight). Anyone with access to CONS Snoop can generate an Excel file listing every piece that is contained under that CONS. That would be proof enough. Anyone who has ever run CONS Snoop can easily tell Express apart from USPS from another bar code configuration (like Ground). With this data, the origin and destination of the Ground pieces could also be easily determined (not going to tell you how, but if you have a working mind it wouldn't be difficult to figure out how).

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Anyone can just make a post that they saw some manifest.I dont believe as it makes no sense.Another troll post for MRFEDEX.Ground is very cheap.Why would Fedex fly it?That cost more money.The whole idea is stupid and better yet,WHO CARES?Even if there was Ground packages on a plane,WHY THE **** MAKE A POST ABOUT IT?

Actually, it does make sense to put as much cargo as you can on each plane that you fly--that is called being cost effective as the increased operating costs of flying the ground is neglible. I don't doubt for a second that ground is being flown along side air. This is a sound business decision but is contrary to the principle of separate operating companies.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Actually, it does make sense to put as much cargo as you can on each plane that you fly--that is called being cost effective as the increased operating costs of flying the ground is neglible. I don't doubt for a second that ground is being flown along side air. This is a sound business decision but is contrary to the principle of separate operating companies.

It make make sense, but it reveals that FedEx has been lying about the two operations (Ground and Express) being separate. Since this is one of the key arguments in Brownbailout.com, it's essential that the truth be revealed. FedEx does operate in the same manner as UPS, and is not inherently different. We have known that Express was moving via Ground in trucks for a long time...the aircraft movement is new.

For my challenged Kool-Aid boy, an FDR indicating Ground containers aboard a FedEx aircraft is absolute proof that Ground packages are moving via the Express system. I saw the manifest, which clearly indicated Ground LD3's in the bellies of the plane. If I reveal the destination(s), the ramp agents who provided me a copy could get in big trouble. I'll say it real slow so you can understand, OK? The FDR lists every container loaded onto the aircraft, it's type, it's location (upper deck or lowers),it's service level, and it's weight. It also indicates whether or not the container is Express or Ground. If you want to keep thinking the Earth is flat and that gravity is one of Satan's tricks, please continue to be a stump. You and FEATW can debate whether or not dinosaurs once roamed the world.

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Anyone can just make a post that they saw some manifest.I dont believe as it makes no sense.Another troll post for MRFEDEX.Ground is very cheap.Why would Fedex fly it?That cost more money.The whole idea is stupid and better yet,WHO CARES?Even if there was Ground packages on a plane,WHY THE **** MAKE A POST ABOUT IT?

"DENSE MAKES SENSE" nuff said

[barnyard]

This kind of transition would be a positive for UPS. DHL proved that P/T couriers are not capable of providing consistent service. If FedEx is indeed moving in this direction, UPS should be able to capitalize and gain accounts by providing a better service.

Go Fred go.

TB

[partykid]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

It make make sense, but it reveals that FedEx has been lying about the two operations (Ground and Express) being separate. Since this is one of the key arguments in Brownbailout.com, it's essential that the truth be revealed. FedEx does operate in the same manner as UPS, and is not inherently different. We have known that Express was moving via Ground in trucks for a long time...the aircraft movement is new.

For my challenged Kool-Aid boy, an FDR indicating Ground containers aboard a FedEx aircraft is absolute proof that Ground packages are moving via the Express system. I saw the manifest, which clearly indicated Ground LD3's in the bellies of the plane. If I reveal the destination(s), the ramp agents who provided me a copy could get in big trouble. I'll say it real slow so you can understand, OK? The FDR lists every container loaded onto the aircraft, it's type, it's location (upper deck or lowers),it's service level, and it's weight. It also indicates whether or not the container is Express or Ground. If you want to keep thinking the Earth is flat and that gravity is one of Satan's tricks, please continue to be a stump. You and FEATW can debate whether or not dinosaurs once roamed the world.

Dude.. as Upstate says never call him..LOL.... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! Very Informal

[Ricochet1a]

Originally Posted by barnyard

This kind of transition would be a positive for UPS. DHL proved that P/T couriers are not capable of providing consistent service. If FedEx is indeed moving in this direction, UPS should be able to capitalize and gain accounts by providing a better service.

Go Fred go.

TB

Uh, excuse me… The only thing DHL proved was that part time drivers that habitually used hallucinogenic substances couldn’t provide good customer service; they constantly had to ask for directions to their next stop and to the nearest convenience store to get a restock of munchies.

I think what you may have intended to say it that part-time employees have a higher turn-over rate and consequently aren’t as knowledgeable as to their customers’ requirements and practices.