The information campaign

[FedEx courier]

Originally Posted by FedEx Trade Networks

Why would any company welcome the idea of employees discussing unions?

The big joke here is that many companies have "welcomed the idea of employees discussing unions". The reason being is that the company only wanted to deal with one Union,in cases where they are classified under the NLRA . Also some companies have actually wanted an honest relationship between employees and management. Southwest Airlines is an example of a company which prides itself on being very honest with it's employees in this manner.

This philosphy certainly does dictate the relationship between management and employee at FedEx. It is the out right lies that only add to the mistrust between employee and management at FedEx. You admit they are anti-union,but a statement by Maury Lane claims that they aren't. The statement "FedEx is not anti-union; nothing could be further from the truth," Mr. Lane said."only proves this dishonesty. That can be found in this article:http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...0News/2459124/

It's been said so many times that if FedEx is not anti-union and FedEx employees think they are so great then FedEx would not care what classification was changed because their employees wouldn't vote it in. This situation does not get any simplier than that.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEx Trade Networks

Why would any company welcome the idea of employees discussing unions?

Fred says FedEx isn't anti-union and so do his minions. So, why does he behave the way he does? He says one thing and then does another. Isn't that a lie?

In other words, why would someone who is anti-union do absolutely everything in their power to keep the union out? Fred is a liar, Maury Lane is Fred's oracle of lies, and the entire management team are co-liars because to mouth anything else would mean the end of one's career at FedEx. Confusing, but true.

[bbsam]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

Perhaps he's ethical enough to not "exploit" the gray areas (drivers). That isn't an issue for you, is it?

No, as a matter of fact it isn't. And should you ever read a ground contract maybe you too could find the true gray area.

[Broke]

Originally Posted by FedEx courier

The big joke here is that many companies have "welcomed the idea of employees discussing unions". The reason being is that the company only wanted to deal with one Union,in cases where they are classified under the NLRA . Also some companies have actually wanted an honest relationship between employees and management. Southwest Airlines is an example of a company which prides itself on being very honest with it's employees in this manner.

This philosphy certainly does dictate the relationship between management and employee at FedEx. It is the out right lies that only add to the mistrust between employee and management at FedEx. You admit they are anti-union,but a statement by Maury Lane claims that they aren't. The statement "FedEx is not anti-union; nothing could be further from the truth," Mr. Lane said."only proves this dishonesty. That can be found in this article:http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...0News/2459124/

It's been said so many times that if FedEx is not anti-union and FedEx employees think they are so great then FedEx would not care what classification was changed because their employees wouldn't vote it in. This situation does not get any simplier than that.

This link you provided proves that all the pro Fedex folks on this site are wrong when they say the battle is over.This battle is far from over and it looks like we're gaining some momentum. Keep calling and writing your elected officials and letting them know how important it is to get the express carrier protection act included in the final Faa bill. From what I'm being told, we're in a really good spot right now and we need to keep the pressure coming.

[olcc]

Originally Posted by FedEx Trade Networks

Why would any company welcome the idea of employees discussing unions?

FedEx Trade Networks, why are you even here? If you really work for FedEx (doubtful), why wouldn't you support your fellow employees? You obviously have no idea what this job entails and what we put up with day in and day out.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by bbsam

No, as a matter of fact it isn't. And should you ever read a ground contract maybe you too could find the true gray area.

Isn't paying Ground drivers a pittance an inherent part of the Ground model? If you actually had to pay a living wage and provide a benefit package your entire profit structure would be destroyed. It is exploitative by design. Please explain how else Fred's master plan would work? Why do think El Cheapo bought RPS is the first place?

I await your tap dance around the truth.

[FedEx courier]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

friend of mine just retired with 26 years of service.Gross pay is 1900 a month -400 to keep his befefits.Prett weak if you ask me.

I got my pension statement in the mail the other day. It said I have a little over 7000 for a lump sum or a little over 70 a month for a monthly payout. I was thinking with this hefty retirement I could move to Barbados and buy a mansion! I have over 17 years with the company, maybe if I worked until I was about 172 I could afford to pay my rent on the FedEx portable pension plan. Even at the bottom of that there was a statement that said the amounts were subject to change based on the descretion of the employer. I guess "operational need" applies to the FedEx portable pension plan just like everything else at FedEx. What a freaking joke!!!!!!

Once again "Fedex 4 life", if you actually worked for the company you would know that there isn't a FedEx pension anymore. It's just another example of FedEx calling something a name that it isn't. I mean this in the most unsarcastic way that it can possible be stated, YOU ARE A JOKE FEDEX 4 LIFE, AND YOU LOOK MORE FAKE WITH EVERY STATEMENT THAT YOU POST!!!!!!!!

[FedEx courier]

Originally Posted by Broke

This link you provided proves that all the pro Fedex folks on this site are wrong when they say the battle is over.This battle is far from over and it looks like we're gaining some momentum. Keep calling and writing your elected officials and letting them know how important it is to get the express carrier protection act included in the final Faa bill. From what I'm being told, we're in a really good spot right now and we need to keep the pressure coming.

You are exactly right! The FedEx plant trolls on this site don't want anyone to get involved so they've been calling this over from the beginning. You can see the desperation if you look at brownbailout.com, they've have three trolls over there posting as different people spouting about the evils of Unions. They wouldn't even have that sight if they weren't worried about this, this company doesn't spend money unless it has to, we all know that. Every FedEx employee reading any of this that wants a voice in their work environment should follow Broke's lead and get involved!

[bbsam]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

Isn't paying Ground drivers a pittance an inherent part of the Ground model? If you actually had to pay a living wage and provide a benefit package your entire profit structure would be destroyed. It is exploitative by design. Please explain how else Fred's master plan would work? Why do think El Cheapo bought RPS is the first place?

I await your tap dance around the truth.

No tap dance here. "A living wage" sounds like something out of the 1970's. Ground is what it is. Maybe I won't have employees for 30 years. Maybe I don't want to. Being a Ground driver can be a stepping stone to a contractor or convince the driver he wants nothing to do with the company. I've seen both happen. Or being a Ground driver can be a decent 2nd income for a family. Truth is that single income families were on the way out 30 years ago and if President Obama can't get healthcare done that and other benefits will continue to erode exponentially. Just look at Ground as being on the cutting edge of the coming draconianism. Oh. You already do.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by FedEx courier

I got my pension statement in the mail the other day. It said I have a little over 7000 for a lump sum or a little over 70 a month for a monthly payout. I was thinking with this hefty retirement I could move to Barbados and buy a mansion! I have over 17 years with the company, maybe if I worked until I was about 172 I could afford to pay my rent on the FedEx portable pension plan. Even at the bottom of that there was a statement that said the amounts were subject to change based on the descretion of the employer. I guess "operational need" applies to the FedEx portable pension plan just like everything else at FedEx. What a freaking joke!!!!!!

Once again "Fedex 4 life", if you actually worked for the company you would know that there isn't a FedEx pension anymore. It's just another example of FedEx calling something a name that it isn't. I mean this in the most unsarcastic way that it can possible be stated, YOU ARE A JOKE FEDEX 4 LIFE, AND YOU LOOK MORE FAKE WITH EVERY STATEMENT THAT YOU POST!!!!!!!!

FedEx Courier, I agree with you about the $70/month but what happened to the rest of your pension? How did you loose it? I thought that once you had it, it could not be taken away? I'm pretty sure you still have it. How much is that pension per month? If you've been at FedEx for 17 years, I would think it's at least $1000/month unless you've been part time for all those years?

[quadro]

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

Quite a few employees decided in early 2008 to retire before May 31, to preserve their DBPP.

Well that's a bonehead move if ever I saw one. The DBPP stopped but it didn't go away. Retiring before May 31, 2008 made no difference to their payout under the DBPP. What it did do is stop them from earning a second pension under the PPP.

[Ricochet1a]

Originally Posted by quadro

Well that's a bonehead move if ever I saw one. The DBPP stopped but it didn't go away. Retiring before May 31, 2008 made no difference to their payout under the DBPP. What it did do is stop them from earning a second pension under the PPP.

I'm going to assume you're either a UPS employee or a misinformed FedEx employee...

The DBPP stopped for every FedEx employee that was still an employee as of June 1 2008. If one retired on or before May 31 2008 they were covered under the DBPP. If one retired on or after June 1 2008, they were forced into the PPP. An employee doesn't get both. The DBPP is in effect for all those that retired prior to 5/31/08 since the law doesn't permit a company from changing the rules after an employee is a retiree. There is nothing that keeps FedEx from changing the pension plan for active employees. In fact, FedEx includes a little statement in our employee handbooks that states that the pension plan an employee will be covered under ISN"T the plan that was in force the day they hired, it will be the plan that is in force the day they retire.

So if you are a retired FedEx employee that did so years ago and is receiving a pension as defined under the ........DBPP, that is yours to keep. If you are currently working for FedEx, you no longer have a true pension, you have a laughably small lump sum payment amount that you will get when you finally pull the plug on FedEx.

As I stated in another post, those that retire now will get close to what they would've under the DBPP. The longer one works for FedEx, the less and less one will receive under the PPP. In fact, a 25 year old new hire that works 25 years and starts to draw a pension 10 years after that will only receive about one-third as they would've under the DBPP.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

I'm going to assume you're either a UPS employee or a misinformed FedEx employee...

The DBPP stopped for every FedEx employee that was still an employee as of June 1 2008. If one retired on or before May 31 2008 they were covered under the DBPP. If one retired on or after June 1 2008, they were forced into the PPP. An employee doesn't get both. The DBPP is in effect for all those that retired prior to 5/31/08 since the law doesn't permit a company from changing the rules after an employee is a retiree. There is nothing that keeps FedEx from changing the pension plan for active employees. In fact, FedEx includes a little statement in our employee handbooks that states that the pension plan an employee will be covered under ISN"T the plan that was in force the day they hired, it will be the plan that is in force the day they retire.

So if you are a retired FedEx employee that did so years ago and is receiving a pension as defined under the ........DBPP, that is yours to keep. If you are currently working for FedEx, you no longer have a true pension, you have a laughably small lump sum payment amount that you will get when you finally pull the plug on FedEx.

As I stated in another post, those that retire now will get close to what they would've under the DBPP. The longer one works for FedEx, the less and less one will receive under the PPP. In fact, a 25 year old new hire that works 25 years and starts to draw a pension 10 years after that will only receive about one-third as they would've under the DBPP.

I am neither a UPS employee or a misinformed FedEx employee.

In a forum such as this where discussions get heated and misinformation is often out in force, please don't take this as anything other than a respectful request.

Quite simply, you are the one whom is misinformed. Or at the very least you've got some mixed facts. Don't take my word for it but if you take a moment, do some research, ask some questions, you'll be able to verify what I'm telling you.

To clarify: I can't remember the exact date, maybe it was June 1, 2008 but if you are/were hired after that date (whatever it was), you are covered under the PPP. If you were hired before then and had any participation in the DBPP, you absolutely do not lose that and you now have a second pension under the PPP. In other words, yes you definitely get both.

There are so many variables based on age, length of employment, etc., but the simplest example is someone who had 25 years of service prior to the PPP. That person had their max 50% pension and the only way to affect the amount would be to earn more before retirement so that their highest 5 years earnings went up. Once the PPP went into effect, they could no longer influence their highest 5 years, those were now locked in based on the highest 5 during their 25 years. That's a done deal. They get that pension whenever it is they retire. In addition to this, they now start earning a second pension under the PPP. And, yes, they do get both.

Now this is not to say that someone who works for 35 years under the old DBPP would have more or less money than someone who now works 35 years under the PPP. Again, many, many variables with that.

I believe employees just received their pension statements. For anyone that was enrolled in the DBPP, their statement shows not only what their current PPP balance is, but also what their DBPP payment will be.

Lastly, the DBPP was just no longer an option for FedEx. The ERISA act took care of that. Defined benefit plans are pretty much gone throughout the US. When you cannot average out your pension liability over say 30 years or whatever it was and have to fund your plan yearly based on current market conditions, most companies (FedEx included) don't have that type of cash. I realize this might be an oversimplification but it's the essence of why the change from DBPP to PPP.

[The Mayor]

Quadro,

What you said is correct. I believe that a lot of current employees are still very confused about what they do and do not get in the form of retirement. Please let me try to clarify some differences here.

1st- If you were enrolled in the traditional pension plan, and are still a current employee, once you retire (whenever that is) you will recieve pension payouts from BOTH the traditional plan, and the portable plan (if desired).

2nd- The portable plan was designed to limit the amount of money paid out to employees over the long haul. Once an employee retires, they have the option of taking that specific lump sum of money and moving it into another retirement plan, IRA, CD, or any other investment with no penalty. If they choose a cash payout, then depending on their retirement age 59.5, 60, 62, etc... the amount of the penalty goes down the longer you wait.

3rd-Under the old system, it took 5 years to be vested under the traditional plan, under the new portable plan, it is only 3 years to become vested. This is in the hopes that new individuals when hired, and then either quit after 3 years or retire, take the lump sum payment because it is only a one time payout. It isn't a continual long term financial obligation. This alone saves ole Freddy boy BILLIONS of dollars long term.

4th- Since the company is relatively young, we are one of less than 300 companys nation wide who have a fully funded pension account under the old traditional plan. The main advantage for that here now is that it is only now coming to be that some individuals are beginning to retire. So, all of that money that has been sitting in that account has been gaining interest and virtually pays for itself.

5th- Finally, once an employee retires or quits with the portable plan, the ties are severed with FedEx and there no longer is any conncetion financially. As far as medical goes though, I'm still a bit ignorant on that. If anyone could fill me in I would appreciate it. Hope that this helps all...

[MrFedEx]

OK, here we go. Your traditional FedEx Pension Plan ended 6-1-08. Yes, if you are a long term employee you still get your old traditional payout(meager) and the PPP, which isn't a "pension" at all. To pretend that $70-$120 per month is a bona fide pension is ludicrous.

If you had 25 years of service prior to 6-1-08 you would have maxed-out your traditional plan at 50% (2% per year) already, and then would have the second "plan" as well. But stop acting like this is a double dip and that we're making out like bandits...nothing could be further from the truth. Our payout under the old plan is less than half of what a UPS retiree gets and the PPP is a puny accrual scheme that pays out a small lump sum when you leave FedEx.

Get it right, OK? Don't spread information that is WRONG.

[FedEx courier]

I'll be the first to admit that I am one of the uninformed ones. I thought I was just not getting it and then I took some of the pension information given to me to a person who works in finance and he said he believes much of the information is meant so people can't understand it. I certainly hope my first pension still has money in it, but I havn't been sent any balance in a very long time. Wonder why FedEx doesn't explain their complex "pension" system to their employees?

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEx courier

I'll be the first to admit that I am one of the uninformed ones. I thought I was just not getting it and then I took some of the pension information given to me to a person who works in finance and he said he believes much of the information is meant so people can't understand it. I certainly hope my first pension still has money in it, but I havn't been sent any balance in a very long time. Wonder why FedEx doesn't explain their complex "pension" system to their employees?

Bottom line. Your Traditional (real) Pension Plan ended 6-1-08. It's over, and everyone (except the pilots and the big cheeses) is under the PPP, which isn't a pension plan at all, except perhaps in name only.

You still get whatever you earned under the old plan, and now get a small yearly accrual that will be paid to you as a lump sum when you quit. You also get a tiny monthly payout.That's all the PPP is. Please explain to me how the PPP is actually a pension when only a small group of roaches could live off of what they pay out. The lucky ones are the 25 year people who earned the maximum on the old plan before the PPP kicked-in. Even though it's not very good, at least they will have a decent amount coming to them when they leave.

Let's say you started in June, 2000. You would have 8 years in under the old plan (2% per year, total of 16%). On June 1, 2008, your participation in the old plan ended and you were forced into the PPP. When you retire, you'll get that 16%, and whatever you accrue under the PPP, plus the puny monthly payout. Better line up that job at Wally World when you hit 65.

Here's what Fred did. He took advantage of all of the publicity that the passenger airlines were getting surrounding their elimination of traditional pension plans and did the same to us, because, after all, we're an "airline" (ha ha). The one big difference is that FedEx was extremely profitable when he pulled this off, while the passenger airlines were bankrupt. What a coup for Smith! He saves millions by ending our real pension plan and then substitutes this farce called PPP. The trouble is, most employees don't understand how badly they were screwed on this deal. Pure ignorance.

The plans are fully funded because they are a pittance compared to good retirement packages. They will always be fully funded because it is a drop in the bucket compared to a decent plan (like the one UPS has).
How clear do I have to make this? Fred just did you hard without any lube and you pretend everything is OK? Are most of you really that stupid?

[Ricochet1a]

To clarify all of the confusion...

Everyone that was vested in the traditional plan as of May 31, 2008 will receive what they would've had they actually terminated their employment with Express on May 31, 2008. That plan ended on May 31, 2008 for everyone though, including all salaried employees excluding senior executives and aircrew under contract.

This means that an employee that had say 17.43 years of service as of that date will receive 17.43 times 2% times the average of the high years of service as a pension at age 60. That is currently locked in - currently. What happened is that everyone was forced into the PPP which only contributes 5% of annual gross into an "account" which FedEx holds and the employee cannot invest on their own. This is the gradual erosion of the pension for all employees that had less than 25 years of service as of May 31, 2008. Every year an employee that has less than 25 years of service as of 5/31/08 stays with FedEx, their "final" pension (DBPP + PPP annuity) will decrease compared to what would've been paid under the DBPP accumulating additional years of service. So that employee that had 17.43 years of service as of 5/31/08 will NOT accumulate additional years of service for calculation of the pension.

If that employee "retires" at 25 years of service, their pension at age 60 will be calculated in 2 parts. The first part will be for those 17.43 years of service times 2% times average of high years - THE HIGH YEARS AT THAT TIME, not the average of high years at the 25 year point. To this 34.86% of the average high at 17.43 years of service, will be added either an annuity from the PPP or a one-time payout to a "retirement" fund of the employee's choice.

Further complicating the issue are the employees that had 25 years + as of 5/31/08. They will receive 50% of the average of high years gross, PLUS whatever they accumulate under the PPP. So for these employee who are "double dipping" they are actually getting a larger benefit.

One might ask why would FedEx allow these employees to double dip. Because the PPP is such a lousy plan, that within a few years FedEx will actually begin to pay out less overall, FedEx will experience a NET savings. That employee that hired in after 5/31/08 and does a 25 year sentence with FedEx will only receive about one-third what they would've received under the the DBPP.

The retirement plan model I constructed a few days ago is good. Those that retired May 31,2008 received full amount under the traditional plan. Since the PPP is only about one-third as "large" as the DBPP, each month an employee continues to work with FedEx, their pension loses ground compared to what they would've received under the DBPP. Those that had more than 25 years when the switch happened actually have incentive to say with FedEx until they can no longer move, since they are accumulating more in the PPP along with their position under the traditional plan (maxed out).

This means that employees that are at the mid point in their "career" are in a bind. They have whatever existed 5/31/08; but they are only accumulating about one-third what would've been accumulated under the old plan. In otherwords, they don't have a pension upon which they can retire on, they have something that will cover utility payments and maybe a little more. Forget about purchasing the FedEx medical coverage for retirees, this would cost more than the "pension" would pay out each month.

This is part of the deliberate and planned narrowing of compensation levels between Express and other FedEx operating companies. It is going to continue. This is why barring the RLA classification being changed (which looks near impossible at this point), all of FedEx wages will begin a narrowing of difference between the operating companies. After all, if Fred can pay a Ground driver $13 an hour to deliver packages, why pay an Express driver $22 and hour plus benefits.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

What happened is that everyone was forced into the PPP which only contributes 5% of annual gross into an "account" which FedEx holds and the employee cannot invest on their own. This is the gradual erosion of the pension for all employees that had less than 25 years of service as of May 31, 2008. Every year an employee that has less than 25 years of service as of 5/31/08 stays with FedEx, their "final" pension (DBPP + PPP annuity) will decrease compared to what would've been paid under the DBPP accumulating additional years of service. So that employee that had 17.43 years of service as of 5/31/08 will NOT accumulate additional years of service for calculation of the pension.

One might ask why would FedEx allow these employees to double dip. Because the PPP is such a lousy plan, that within a few years FedEx will actually begin to pay out less overall, FedEx will experience a NET savings. That employee that hired in after 5/31/08 and does a 25 year sentence with FedEx will only receive about one-third what they would've received under the the DBPP.

You've got part of it right but you've also made some very, very broad assumptions that may or may not be true for each indvidual.

The 5% contribution is not fixed at 5%. It depends on your age and years of service. As you get older and your have more service years under your belt, the % contribution goes up.

Without doing the math, I'm pretty sure just logically your calculation about peoples' "final" pension is wrong. It just depends on how long someone has worked for FedEx and whether they choose to stay with FedEx. There are a lot of employees who had less than 25 years and are going to come out much, much better off. I'm sure there are people who would have been better off if the DBPP stuck around so again, it just depends on the individual.

Also, logically, I'm not sure how you figure that as employee tenure goes up and more people retire that FedEx would pay less unless you are referring to the ERISA change that caused FedEx to end the DBPP and switch to a PPP. Like it or not, the change in the law meant that it was impossible for many companies to continue with a DBPP, especially with the economy doing what it is doing. Just look at the number of companies that have, or actually don't have, a defined benefit plan. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the economics of it.

As for someone getting a third of what they would have, again, it really depends on the individual, what they do with their career, what their plans and goals are for retirement, etc.

And the RLA thing has nothing to do with it. If enough couriers at FedEx wanted a union, there's nothing stopping them under the RLA from having a union. Keep in mind that a far higher percentage of employees covered under RLA are union compared to the number of employees covered under NLRA.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by quadro

You've got part of it right but you've also made some very, very broad assumptions that may or may not be true for each indvidual.

The 5% contribution is not fixed at 5%. It depends on your age and years of service. As you get older and your have more service years under your belt, the % contribution goes up.

Without doing the math, I'm pretty sure just logically your calculation about peoples' "final" pension is wrong. It just depends on how long someone has worked for FedEx and whether they choose to stay with FedEx. There are a lot of employees who had less than 25 years and are going to come out much, much better off. I'm sure there are people who would have been better off if the DBPP stuck around so again, it just depends on the individual.

Also, logically, I'm not sure how you figure that as employee tenure goes up and more people retire that FedEx would pay less unless you are referring to the ERISA change that caused FedEx to end the DBPP and switch to a PPP. Like it or not, the change in the law meant that it was impossible for many companies to continue with a DBPP, especially with the economy doing what it is doing. Just look at the number of companies that have, or actually don't have, a defined benefit plan. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the economics of it.

As for someone getting a third of what they would have, again, it really depends on the individual, what they do with their career, what their plans and goals are for retirement, etc.

And the RLA thing has nothing to do with it. If enough couriers at FedEx wanted a union, there's nothing stopping them under the RLA from having a union. Keep in mind that a far higher percentage of employees covered under RLA are union compared to the number of employees covered under NLRA.

Better off under the PPP? Yeah, right. And the Pope is Jewish. Your comment about the RLA is misleading. Sure, we could have a union, IF there were not a bunch of right to work states that would never, ever go for a union. Smith has counted on this fact for 36 years and counting. If we're so damn happy, why should Fred be so afraid of a mere re-classification? The RLA classification effectively prevents a union....that's why Smith is pulling out all the stops to keep his sweetheart deal.

ERISA was the excuse, not the reason. As I've explained, Fred did away with the pension because he could and used the woes of the passenger airlines as a smokescreen to do it. ERISA has been around since the 70's..what a strange coincidence that Fred would become so "concerned" about having a fully funded plan at the same time the airlines were ditching their plans and getting bailed-out by the government.

Quadro, it's odd that you would reappear again on the BC after being slammed so badly before. Is it time to help Smith with another of his mis-information efforts? Why not answer these questions directly....because you can't.

[Ricochet1a]

Well "quadro" at least you've revealed your true colors. You go two years without posting and then come out of the woodwork...

I'm pretty good at math, with all the finance and stuff... I've almost got the graduate work done, so I'm confident in my numbers. See, some of the people that drive for FedEx can indeed perform complicated financial calculations. FedEx got just a little bit more than it bargained for in the deal.

About the calculation about the final pension... You're wrong. The DBPP under actuary standards had close to a 15% of an employee's gross going towards it to support it. The PPP is 5%. If any REAL employee has a different figure at the bottom of the front page of the statement they just received, speak up. Oh sorry, quadro is a "real" employee, just not a wage employee or fully conversant in TVM calculations. Must have gone through LEAP back in the day...

I'm not referring to any change in ERISA either. As the liabilities go down, so do cash flows out of FedEx. FedEx pulled what will eventually happen to Social Security. Changes in the formulas to acheive a lower net payment will occur with the sole intent of reducing liabilities to beneficiaries. If you are so confident that the PPP is so good, why didn't FedEx employees flock to the PPP when it was offered as an option? Why did so many FedEx employees get ticked off when they were forced onto it a year ago? Your assertions don't match with reality, or good financial mathematics.

You backstop your reply with "depends on the individual". Well, give an example of a hypothetical individual that will come out ahead with the PPP. I'll give you one group, employees that had over 25 years of service as of 5/31/08. They will actually come out slightly ahead. Every other employee will lose. The amount of that loss varies with the amount of time they had under the traditional plan, and how much longer they stay with FedEx.

The "RLA thing" has EVERYTHING to do with this. If FedEx had their non-AGFS employees classified under NLRB rules, NONE of this would've happened. For those who don't have problems with their short term memories, this all happened BEFORE the latest economic difficulties, NOT after. FedEx could've switched to a non defined plan and funded it with 15% of an employee's gross and not 5%, it didn't. FedEx isn't paying a penny towards a pension plan for all the Ground drivers, since they are locked in the pseudo-IC model. FedEx is in the process of narrowing the differential between compensation levels in its operating companies. The gutting of the traditional pension plan is one part of that.

Your last paragraph is a FedEx talking point almost verbatim. At least you put it in your own language (it doesn't match up exactly with FedEx statements or press releases in the Commercial Appeal, congratulations). The argument is a false argument. FedEx wants RLA rules to prevent a union from making any headway into FedEx. Passenger airlines can organize under RLA since their employees have a better communication network among themselves. FedEx employees are divided up into over 600 stations across the US with NO official communication occuring between wage employees as part of work. It is all back channel (like this...).

If Fred were to lose his RLA status for Express, the Teamsters would be in within a year, and have all of Express organized within 3.

Please, refrain from dispensing FedEx KoolAid. You state you are neither a UPS employee or a "misinformed" FedEx employee. This means you are a salaried FedEx shill attempting to spread confusion among those who want to end the games of Fred. Stick to the Commercial Appeal and put away the methodology you learned from the Joseph Goebbels School of Public Misinformation.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

OK, here we go. Your traditional FedEx Pension Plan ended 6-1-08. Yes, if you are a long term employee you still get your old traditional payout(meager) and the PPP, which isn't a "pension" at all. To pretend that $70-$120 per month is a bona fide pension is ludicrous.

I don't see anyone who is claiming that $70-$120 per month is a bona fide pension.

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

If you had 25 years of service prior to 6-1-08 you would have maxed-out your traditional plan at 50% (2% per year) already, and then would have the second "plan" as well. But stop acting like this is a double dip and that we're making out like bandits...nothing could be further from the truth. Our payout under the old plan is less than half of what a UPS retiree gets and the PPP is a puny accrual scheme that pays out a small lump sum when you leave FedEx.

For those employees who have both pensions, they are double dipping. Calling an apple an orange doesn't make it an orange. Also, you are the only one who said anything about making out like bandits. No one has claimed that. UPS has more volume and more revenue. They can afford to pay more. And how big or small the lump sum is, if you even choose the lump sum which you don't have to do, depends on a lot of things. There will be many people who end up with a sizeable lump sum.

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

Get it right, OK? Don't spread information that is WRONG.

Never a truer word was spoken.

[Ricochet1a]

[QUOTE=quadro;578429]I don't see anyone who is claiming that $70-$120 per month is a bona fide pension.

Well... FedEx employees... look at the top of the statement you received in the mail late last week.

"FedEx Corporation Employees' Pension Plan
Report of PPA Benefit
Accrued Benefit"

It looks like Fred is calling it a "pension". One thing you are right about, it isn't a "good faith" offer on the part of FedEx. It is deception calling something that will result in one-third the payout of the traditional pension a "pension". This what we are trying to get across to our fellow wage employees and battling with FedEx's shills over.

As far as UPS's employees pension...

More volume.....check!
More revenue.....check!

What did you leave out??????

More employees.......?

UPS volume times UPS revenue divided by # UPS employees = UPS pension....

OK

FedEx volume (less) times FedEx revenue (less) divided by # FedEx employees (less) =

For our mathematically challenged shill...

All those "less" cancel out, and the comparitive pensions should be, well.....comparitive. Not "less".

Now the shills are crying that FedEx isn't a Fortune 500 company anymore, they can't afford to pay pensions to their employees. What a minute, doesn't FedEx have one of the best employee ratings of a....

Fortune 500 company??

Another attempt to have and eat your cake too.

I think the other actual wage employees have it right here, Fred has got to be resorting to having shills post here. FedEx4Life didn't work out so well, so he got one with an education this time it seems. Oh well, more grist for the mill.

How many ways to grind a shill.... let me count the ways.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

Well "quadro" at least you've revealed your true colors. You go two years without posting and then come out of the woodwork...

Just because I choose not to post doesn't mean I haven't been around. You know this was a pretty good discussion but then you resort to an ad hominem argument. Why? Because you don't have the facts to support your story? What's wrong with respecting other peoples opinions and acknowledging that each and every person needs to make decisions based on facts and what's best for them? Not what some misinformed person thinks is best for everyone.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

About the calculation about the final pension... You're wrong. The DBPP under actuary standards had close to a 15% of an employee's gross going towards it to support it. The PPP is 5%. If any REAL employee has a different figure at the bottom of the front page of the statement they just received, speak up. Oh sorry, quadro is a "real" employee, just not a wage employee or fully conversant in TVM calculations. Must have gone through LEAP back in the day...

I am far from conversant in actuary standards so I have no idea if your 15% number is right or wrong. If I have time I'll have to look into that. What I do know is that I am not wrong about the 5%. Please, just research how the PPP accrues and you'll see that it's a graduated scale based on how old you are and how many years you've worked at FedEx.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

If you are so confident that the PPP is so good, why didn't FedEx employees flock to the PPP when it was offered as an option? Why did so many FedEx employees get ticked off when they were forced onto it a year ago? Your assertions don't match with reality, or good financial mathematics.

I never said the PPP was so good.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

You backstop your reply with "depends on the individual". Well, give an example of a hypothetical individual that will come out ahead with the PPP. I'll give you one group, employees that had over 25 years of service as of 5/31/08. They will actually come out slightly ahead. Every other employee will lose. The amount of that loss varies with the amount of time they had under the traditional plan, and how much longer they stay with FedEx.

What about employees who had 24 years or 23 years, or 17 years? Depending on how much longer they work for FedEx, they could come out ahead too. Again, it depends on the individual and there are a lot of individuals that fall into this group.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

The "RLA thing" has EVERYTHING to do with this. If FedEx had their non-AGFS employees classified under NLRB rules, NONE of this would've happened. For those who don't have problems with their short term memories, this all happened BEFORE the latest economic difficulties, NOT after. FedEx could've switched to a non defined plan and funded it with 15% of an employee's gross and not 5%, it didn't. FedEx isn't paying a penny towards a pension plan for all the Ground drivers, since they are locked in the pseudo-IC model. FedEx is in the process of narrowing the differential between compensation levels in its operating companies. The gutting of the traditional pension plan is one part of that.

You can't possibly know what would have and what wouldn't have happened and neither can I. What I do know is that if the non-AGFS employees wanted a union there is nothing stopping them. I also know that the ERISA change meant that FedEx would have had to come up with a payment in excess of $1Billion and that was, as you noted, before the latest economic difficulties. Just think how much that payment would have been this year. So thanks for proving my point on that one.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

FedEx wants RLA rules to prevent a union from making any headway into FedEx. Passenger airlines can organize under RLA since their employees have a better communication network among themselves. FedEx employees are divided up into over 600 stations across the US with NO official communication occuring between wage employees as part of work. It is all back channel (like this...).

Straw man argument. FedEx employees are smart enough to communicate and if enough wanted representation, they would have it. The simple fact of the matter is that no union can justify the cost of a full campaign while FedEx is under RLA because the odds aren't in their favor.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

Please, refrain from dispensing FedEx KoolAid. You state you are neither a UPS employee or a "misinformed" FedEx employee. This means you are a salaried FedEx shill attempting to spread confusion among those who want to end the games of Fred. Stick to the Commercial Appeal and put away the methodology you learned from the Joseph Goebbels School of Public Misinformation.

Again with the ad hominem attacks. Why can't I just be an informed FedEx employee? Or are you saying there are no informed FedEx employees other than salaried shills? I don't presume to know what is best for anyone other than myself but I take the time to get the facts and understand them. If someone wants my opinion of what I think would be good for them, I'll gladly talk with them to try and understand their situation and let them know what I would do in their shoes. That could very easily be something different and in opposition to what I want for myself. I won't however disrespect them or make fallacious assumptions about them.

[quadro]

[quote=Ricochet1a;578436]

Originally Posted by quadro

I don't see anyone who is claiming that $70-$120 per month is a bona fide pension.

Well... FedEx employees... look at the top of the statement you received in the mail late last week.

"FedEx Corporation Employees' Pension Plan
Report of PPA Benefit
Accrued Benefit"

I can see why your name is Ricochet. You're bouncing around all over the place.
Ok, as it's only been about a year for most people in the PPP, if they were to retire now then they might only get $70 a month but that would be true under any pension plan if you were in it for only a year (assuming you were even vested after a year which I don't think you can be but that's beside the point). Try to find someone who has been in it for about 5 years and see what their payout would be. It won't be huge but it'll be more than $70 a month. The PPP favors those employees who stick around a long time as should any pension plan. I'm not saying they'll retire with millions and I'm not saying the PPP is the best thing since sliced bread, I'm just putting what you said into perspective.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

As far as UPS's employees pension...

More volume.....check!
More revenue.....check!

What did you leave out??????

More employees.......?

UPS volume times UPS revenue divided by # UPS employees = UPS pension....

OK

FedEx volume (less) times FedEx revenue (less) divided by # FedEx employees (less) =

For our mathematically challenged shill...

All those "less" cancel out, and the comparitive pensions should be, well.....comparitive. Not "less".

There's way more to it than that. What about cost structures, expenses, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Ricochet1a

Now the shills are crying that FedEx isn't a Fortune 500 company anymore, they can't afford to pay pensions to their employees. What a minute, doesn't FedEx have one of the best employee ratings of a....

Who said FedEx isn't a Fortune 500 company anymore? I didn't.