The information campaign

[olcc]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

The purpose of this thread is to provide information for a simple, informative flyer that we can share with Express employees to help educate them about the disparities that exist between FedEx and UPS in terms of pay, benefits, etc. in the event that Congress votes our way on the RLA exemption. Obviously, the wording is critical because any mention of a union could have dire consequences for anyone involved. It has to be strictly facts.

I'll get the ball rolling with these:

-Top pay for FedEx Couriers in this market is $21.xx
Top pay for UPS drivers in this market is $29.xx

-Top pay progression for a FedEx Courier takes over twelve years.
Top pay progression for a UPS Driver takes three years.

-Benefits for a family (2 or more dependents) cost a FedEx Courier over $300 per month.
Benefits for a family (2 or more dependents) cost a UPS Driver $0 per month.

...and so on...

Please add to this list and circulate a link to this thread at any other sites you visit. We also need as many responses from UPS employees as we can get so that we ensure our info is accurate. With enough responses we can compile it into a flyer to distribute.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by olcc

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

The purpose of this thread is to provide information for a simple, informative flyer that we can share with Express employees to help educate them about the disparities that exist between FedEx and UPS in terms of pay, benefits, etc. in the event that Congress votes our way on the RLA exemption. Obviously, the wording is critical because any mention of a union could have dire consequences for anyone involved. It has to be strictly facts.

I'll get the ball rolling with these:

-Top pay for FedEx Couriers in this market is $21.xx
Top pay for UPS drivers in this market is $29.xx

-Top pay progression for a FedEx Courier takes over twelve years.
Top pay progression for a UPS Driver takes three years.

-Benefits for a family (2 or more dependents) cost a FedEx Courier over $300 per month.
Benefits for a family (2 or more dependents) cost a UPS Driver $0 per month.

...and so on...

Please add to this list and circulate a link to this thread at any other sites you visit. We also need as many responses from UPS employees as we can get so that we ensure our info is accurate. With enough responses we can compile it into a flyer to distribute.

Welcome aboard!! Excellent idea.

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Top pay is 25 an hour by me and im curious,arent our jobs similar to UPS Air drivers?Whats thier top pay?

Don't feed the troll. Don't feed the troll. Don't feed the troll.

Air driver top pay as of Aug 1st is around $23.69/hr and takes two (2) years of progression. That is for full-time air drivers, either inside-outside combo or FT 8 hour air drivers.

Part-time air driver (3+ hour) is $21.69/hr and also takes (2) years of wage progression.

Keep in mind FT air drivers pay far less out of pocket, as described above, for health/dental etc. Only the union dues which avg 60-80/mo for full-time and 40-50/mo part-time.

argh too late

[DorkHead]

Originally Posted by Sleeve_meet_Heart

Don't feed the troll. Don't feed the troll. Don't feed the troll.

Air driver top pay as of Aug 1st is around $23.69/hr and takes two (2) years of progression. That is for full-time air drivers, either inside-outside combo or FT 8 hour air drivers.

Part-time air driver (3+ hour) is $21.69/hr and also takes (2) years of wage progression.

Keep in mind FT air drivers pay far less out of pocket, as described above, for health/dental etc. Only the union dues which avg 60-80/mo for full-time and 40-50/mo part-time.

argh too late

Correct, however, union dues do NOT go towards any health benefits. Health benefits are paid for with additional negotiated monies as stated in our contract

[Sleeve_meet_Heart]

Originally Posted by DorkHead

Correct, however, union dues do NOT go towards any health benefits. Health benefits are paid for with additional negotiated monies as stated in our contract

I did not mean to imply that. I was simply implying that to the employee, at least to me, itsbest viewed that dues cover those costs.

[olcc]

Thanks for the responses. Dumb question but do UPS employess have a 401k match? And how is the pension calculated?

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by olcc

Thanks for the responses. Dumb question but do UPS employess have a 401k match? And how is the pension calculated?

No match on 401k for hourlies. Mgt had match but that was taken away due to economy. Pension calculation much too involved to discuss here.

[olcc]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Pension calculation much too involved to discuss here.

That pretty much sums up our new (PPP) pension plan. A whole lot of calculations to protect their bottom line at our expense.

[FedEx courier]

One big disparity is that FedEx can basically fire you for trumped up bullcrap. It seems there is zero job protection. GFT is basically going back to the people that fired you and telling them they were wrong, good luck with that! I have seen people with 20 plus years with FedEx get fired for trumped up crap!

Also there are no clear rules at FedEx. Operational need supercedes any written rule so they can basically make up and change rules on you at any time as they have done over and over at my station! FedEx's rules are basically whatever they determine is best for management is going to be used and if they notice something that is not they can manipulate that to change with no recourse whatsoever. This is why they are fighting this change in classification so hard at FedEx because the "whatever I say goes" would not fly like it does now. If you try to stand up to them now you can be immediately targeted. The personell reps work for the company and are only in place to try and make sure someone can't sue the company. Seems like a Union contract would change this manipulative system FedEx has right now in a very major way. I wonder if "FedEx 4 life" knows what that "operational need" phrase means. HAAAHAA!!!!

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEx courier

One big disparity is that FedEx can basically fire you for trumped up bullcrap. It seems there is zero job protection. GFT is basically going back to the people that fired you and telling them they were wrong, good luck with that! I have seen people with 20 plus years with FedEx get fired for trumped up crap!

Also there are no clear rules at FedEx. Operational need supercedes any written rule so they can basically make up and change rules on you at any time as they have done over and over at my station! FedEx's rules are basically whatever they determine is best for management is going to be used and if they notice something that is not they can manipulate that to change with no recourse whatsoever. This is why they are fighting this change in classification so hard at FedEx because the "whatever I say goes" would not fly like it does now. If you try to stand up to them now you can be immediately targeted. The personell reps work for the company and are only in place to try and make sure someone can't sue the company. Seems like a Union contract would change this manipulative system FedEx has right now in a very major way. I wonder if "FedEx 4 life" knows what that "operational need" phrase means. HAAAHAA!!!!

Yep. Everything on their terms....just the way they like it. Anyone who speaks out is immediately targeted, just like people who get injured are. When I was in LEAP, I sat in on a few conference calls that turned my stomach because they were so totally unethical. You have a bullseye on your back the second you become a liablity instead of an asset. Don't believe me, some of you cheerleaders? Get hurt and see what happens. Better yet, say something controversial at your next workgroup meeting like "We need a union", even if you don't mean it. See what happens. How can anyone not see through this company? Amazing. Go ahead, be stupid.

[Brown287]

Only Fed-Ex employees have the power. Im just a UPS driver that sees a competitor use its political connections to screw its "employees" and its "contracted employees".Union dues suck, theres no getting around it but given the Fed-Ex alternative Ill stick with my union dues. The union is at times an emberresment but given the Fed-Ex alternative Ill stick with the union. You guys want to make changes then collectively you should organize a cross the board work stoppage. No matter what the color of your vehicle you should all have a walk out one day. Then maybe Fed-Ex will take you serious. Up to this point they just look at you indivusually as nats on thier behinds. Remember you are the ones that turn the keys and walk to the doors.

[Ricochet1a]

Originally Posted by Brown287

Only Fed-Ex employees have the power. Im just a UPS driver that sees a competitor use its political connections to screw its "employees" and its "contracted employees".Union dues suck, theres no getting around it but given the Fed-Ex alternative Ill stick with my union dues. The union is at times an emberresment but given the Fed-Ex alternative Ill stick with the union. You guys want to make changes then collectively you should organize a cross the board work stoppage. No matter what the color of your vehicle you should all have a walk out one day. Then maybe Fed-Ex will take you serious. Up to this point they just look at you indivusually as nats on thier behinds. Remember you are the ones that turn the keys and walk to the doors.

What you are talking about would be considered to be an "unauthoirized strike" under RLA rules. Under RLA, employees of a covered company can be COMPELLED by the federal government to return to work or face potential penalties and prosecution. This is something that FedEx doesn't talk much about, because it doesn't need to. There have been some isolated cases of Purple Flu at some stations, but nothing that has disrupted operations.

If employees were to publically state that they refuse to work because of conditions and compensation at FedEx, FedEx would have no qualms about filing suit in Federal court to have the employees compelled to return to work or face fines or prosecution. They'd also be considered to have "not called in for an authorized absence". The first day of not calling in and stating one won't be in for work for a "legitimate" reason results in a warning letter being issued. If the employee doesn't call in on the next consecutive day they are absent, it is considered to be a voluntary resignation and the employee is no longer an employee. This is stated VERY clearly in our handbooks.

This is why for years FedEx has been able to say to employees that aren't happy to "find the nearest exit and don't come back", and mean it. RLA can't keep us from QUITTING, but it can definately keep us from engaging in unauthorized strikes. Even with a recognized union under RLA rules, any voted upon strike must have a "cooling off period". This allows covered employers time to attempt to pick off faint hearted employees to prevent a strike from occurring in the first place. Since a strike, or a REAL threat of a strike, is the only thing that forces employers to deal with the union, RLA classified employers have most of the power. This explains why FedEx goes to the lengths it does to keep its RLA status.

[MrFedEx]

This also is the reason FedEx has been playing-up the "vital" nature of the Express business and how "disruptive" it would be to national commerce should we go on strike. Fred wants Grandma to think her meds aren't going to get delivered if we go union. The truth is that shippers would just temporarily switch to a competitor and she would get her Lipitor and Grandpa would get his Viagra. In a recession, "disruption" is even less of an issue because the extra volume that UPS and the USPS would get could easily be handled.

Fred wants the world to think that everything we do is an emergency shipment, when the truth is that the pkgs we carry aren't any different from the ones UPS hauls. Crickets to cancer meds, both companies handle the same stuff.

[olcc]

Just received a PPP statement in the mail today. The lump sum payment option would barely be enough to buy a computer and the monthly payment option wouldn't even fill up my gas tank.

[Ricochet1a]

I wrote off the pension when the Defined Benefit Pension Plan (DBPP) was gutted. But what did strike me is that FedEx is only "giving" 5% of annual gross as a contribution to the PPP. This is outrageous. Without getting into minutia of finance, 5% of annual gross times 25 years of service equates to a balance of about 125% of a year's pay as a balance at retirement at 25 years. One can basically buy a new car at retirement to get back and forth to that door greeter job at the local mega-mart.

They're only paying 1% quarterly on the balance. That is marginally above T-Bill rates; and only a couple of percentage points above annual inflation rate. In other words, marginally better that stuffing a mattress. The real kicker is that FedEx is holding the balance, NOT a third party. If FedEx ever goes belly up, guess what, your pot of money is gone too.

Folks, this ISN'T a pension, it is an end of career payout. With a return on "investment" of only 4%, there isn't going to much growth in the balance over inflation. When I looked at the "straight life annuity" and compared that amount to what the DBPP was, I'm only getting about 20% of what I would've gotten under the DBPP.

To make a rough comparison between the trash plan that is in effect and the old DBPP, do the following:

Take your years of service and multiply that by 2% (multiply the "Benefit Accrual Service" number on the front of the page by 2%).

Multiply this by your average annual gross $$$ over the past five years, then divide by 12.

This would've been your monthly payment under the old DBPP.

Compare this number you just calculated with the number that appears at the bottom right of the chart on the back of the form "straight life annuity".

I'll end this post so you can pick your jaw up from the floor.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Just like when UPS went on strike.Everyone switched to Fedex temporarily.UPS didnt lose any customers to Fedex permanantly.

As usual, you are incorrect. Most of the shippers that swore they'd never use UPS again after the strike ate their words and went back. Any more brilliant observations?

[MrFedEx]

PPP= PISS POOR PENSION PLAN. For all of you Kool-Aid consumers out there who think you'll ever be able to "retire", Ricochet1 has it right. You'll be working until you leave this orb....I'm sure that's OK with you because Fred and FedEx are so "great".

Maybe the average intelligence of a FedEx worker is around a 6th grade level because there are very few people who seem to get it. YOU DON'T HAVE A RETIREMENT PLAN ANY LONGER! Fred took it away, and most of you seem OK with that.

Maybe when you turn 55 and are still throwing boxes while awaiting your double knee replacement you'll figure it out....probably not. Smith threw you under the bus after screwing you in the rear sans lube and you LIKE IT. All of that glowing praise and support for Fred and FedEx and he has just cut your throats. How ignorant can you be?

[Ricochet1a]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

friend of mine just retired with 26 years of service.Gross pay is 1900 a month -400 to keep his befefits.Prett weak if you ask me.

Was that before May 31, 2008, or after? Makes a big difference. Your numbers would be correct if he retired BEFORE May 31, 2008... under the old DBPP.

[FedEx courier]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Yes i do.They used it all the time for me when i was full time.One of the things i hated the most about being full time.

If you know exactly what they do to other employees then why are you in their corner? It doesn't make sense? Even if they aren't coming at you with the hatchet right now you know they can and will. I'm sure you aren't a bad person and are mainly doing a lot of talk on this site just to antagonize people but I wish you could think about what you've seen happen to other people and realize that it could happen to you very quickly.

[Ricochet1a]

Under the PPP, FedEx is only "contributing" 5% of annual gross to the balance each year. Under the conversion from the DBPP, there was a large lump sum contribution made to an employees balance based upon years of service and annual pay. This was deliberately scaled to keep the differences between monthly pensions between those that retired before May 31, 2008 and after relatively close. However... the disparity between the DBPP will slowly increase the longer an employee works under the PPP.

For an employee hired in on June 1, 2008 planning to retire May 31, 2033, the difference between the two plans will be amazing. I created an Excel Sheet with the following assumptions (this makes the BIG assumption that FedEx continues to operate the same for the next 25 years as it has for the last, yes I know, faulty assumption):

1) Starting wage of $15/hr hires in at age 25.

2) Average pay increase of 5.5% (don't laugh) until top out. Top out will occur in 2025 at $37.19/hr

3) 3% Annual Inflation rate

4) Retirement in 2033 at $47.11/hr, age 50. Sounds like a lot now, but the inflation index then will be 2.09, so divide $47.11 in 2033 dollars by 2.09 to get 2009 dollars, which is a $22.54/hr pay rate (I just proved that when a Courier tops out, so does their standard of living, it is a dead end job).

5) 2084 Regular hours worked in a year, and an assumption of 10% additional pay due to overtime

6) 4% earnings on annual contributions of FedEx.

The balance in the PPP on May 31, 2033 for this employee would be $138,188.55. Assuming the balance keeps on earning interest at the astounding rate of 4%, on May 31, 2043 (age 60) the balance would be $205,500. Sounds like a lot, it isn't. First remember these are 2043 dollars. Divide by the inflation index of 2.81 to get 2009 dollars, which is $72,657. This is what a 25 year career gets the employee under the PPP, a 2009 dollar amount of $72,657.

The annual gross for this employee for 2032-33 would be $108,000 in "then" dollars ($51,674 in 2009 dollars). So once an employee tops out, standard of living tops out too, there is no further growth in real income.

So, under the PPP an employee would retire with $66,119 2009 dollars in their account. If the employee starts drawing at age 60, there would be $72,657 in 2009 dollars in the balance. Say you manage to hold on till age 75, the monthly pension payment would be $537.43 in 2009 dollars.

Let's compare this to the old DBPP.

Average of high 3 (or 5) times years of service (max of 25) times 2% for annual pension, divided by 12 for monthly payment.

The average would be $101,884. In 2043 this equals $36,257 in 2009 dollars. Take this times 25 times 2% and divide by 12 to get monthly pension. I get $1,510.70 a month. Compare this to the PPP amount of $537.43 (all in 2009 dollars).

The new hire lost TWO-THIRDS of their pension!!!!

[FedEx courier]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

PPP= PISS POOR PENSION PLAN. For all of you Kool-Aid consumers out there who think you'll ever be able to "retire", Ricochet1 has it right. You'll be working until you leave this orb....I'm sure that's OK with you because Fred and FedEx are so "great".

Maybe the average intelligence of a FedEx worker is around a 6th grade level because there are very few people who seem to get it. YOU DON'T HAVE A RETIREMENT PLAN ANY LONGER! Fred took it away, and most of you seem OK with that.

Maybe when you turn 55 and are still throwing boxes while awaiting your double knee replacement you'll figure it out....probably not. Smith threw you under the bus after screwing you in the rear sans lube and you LIKE IT. All of that glowing praise and support for Fred and FedEx and he has just cut your throats. How ignorant can you be?

He's right again, any FedEx express employee reading this should investigate and they will find it to be true! He isn't joking!

[Ricochet1a]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Hes been retired for over a year now,maybe even 2.If he retired after May 31 2008 what would the difference make?

This means he is under the DBPP. He made it out in time.

It is difficult to state precisely what his pension would've been if he had retired on or after June 1, 2008. There was a "smoke and mirror" scheme of assigning compensation credits based upon age and time of service as of June 2008. In general, the disparity between the DBPP and the PPP will start out small for those that have retired in the year since PPP went into effect and will gradually widen until those that hired-on after the switch will receive only about a third of what they would've under DBPP.

Quite a few employees decided in early 2008 to retire before May 31, to preserve their DBPP. For many it was a difficult decision to stay. They wanted to protect what pension they had, but couldn't find another job quick enough to bail-out before the involuntary switch to the PPP.

The employees within 5 or so years of a "full retirement" (25 years plus), will take about a 30% hit to their pension under the PPP. That "hit" will gradually increase for younger employees till the "hit" is about 65% of the amount that would've been paid under DBPP for new hires right now.

But all this ignores the pending business model of FedEx. The full time wage employee is going to be gradually converted to a part-time employee. I keep on coming back to the same thing over and over, there will be no full time wage employees in Express if Fred can change the business model like he wants. Part-time employees that work for 5 years on average for an employer DON'T CARE what the pension plan is, all they want is immediate benefits and a predictable schedule. That is what Fred is planning on offering.

This is why the PPP was enacted; it greatly reduced a future liability for Express. In addition, the "balance" in the PPP is held by FedEx, allowing them to use it for business purposes and only pay 4% annual interest. Not many businesses have a non-revokable line of credit that they pay 4% interest on.

This explains why Fred is fighting so hard to keep Express and Ground union free. Even if it costs him $100 million to keep the unions out, he'll make that back in a matter of months with the reduced compensation levels he pays line employees. For Fred, this is a make or break propositon. By keeping the unions out and compensation at ridiculous levels, he has a built in profit margin over any competitor, especially UPS.

For the uneducated employee (yes, there is no way around it, most wage employees don't have a clue as to what the issues really are), they continue to believe that FedEx and Fred are looking out for them. Reality couldn't be any further from that false belief. The wage employees are being abused to further the profit goals of executive management. Even the salaried employees have been tossed under the bus by FedEx now. They are under the PPP too, and they know very well how much they lost. The question is how many will remain once the economy improves. From what I've heard from my friends in Memphis and locally, many will be jumping ship once the economy turns around.

This is starting to cause problems for FedEx. A large segment of what I'd call "problem solving employees" are now becoming problems for FedEx. These people can see problems and solve them....... problem is, there IS a problem with FedEx now and it can't be solved. So what is this intelligent employee to do? Make preparations for abandoning ship and getting away from the impending shipwreck.

[bbsam]

Richochet, you could always become a contractor. Your mind grasps business very well. I would be willing to bet that you would be able to find the gray areas in the contract and exploit them to sizable profit in no time at all.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by bbsam

Richochet, you could always become a contractor. Your mind grasps business very well. I would be willing to bet that you would be able to find the gray areas in the contract and exploit them to sizable profit in no time at all.

Perhaps he's ethical enough to not "exploit" the gray areas (drivers). That isn't an issue for you, is it?

[FedEx Trade Networks]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

Yep. Everything on their terms....just the way they like it. Anyone who speaks out is immediately targeted, just like people who get injured are. When I was in LEAP, I sat in on a few conference calls that turned my stomach because they were so totally unethical. You have a bullseye on your back the second you become a liablity instead of an asset. Don't believe me, some of you cheerleaders? Get hurt and see what happens. Better yet, say something controversial at your next workgroup meeting like "We need a union", even if you don't mean it. See what happens. How can anyone not see through this company? Amazing. Go ahead, be stupid.

Why would any company welcome the idea of employees discussing unions?