Southwest Travel Benefits "Suspended" - Awesome

[Washu234]

Originally Posted by FedEX 4 Life

Fedex is not an airline.

Ok I'm sorry. FedEx Express. Here you go.

Wikipedia (Links)

FedEx_Express

"[FedEx] is the world's largest airline in terms of aircraft and in terms of freight tons flown"

[Washu234]

Originally Posted by Washu234

Ok I'm sorry. FedEx Express. Here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express

"[FedEx Express] is the world's largest airline in terms of aircraft and in terms of freight tons flown"

[MrFedEx]

While FedEx has a lot of aircraft, it is not technically an "airline". Both UPS and FedEx are what is known as systems integrators. While it's true that airline operations are a component of both companies they cannot be called "airlines" in the strictest sense of the word.

This is a crucial point, because Fred Smith wants everyone to think that FedEx is strictly an airline...which it isn't. This has allowed him to keep the undeserved RLA "Express Carrier" exemption, the means by which FedEx keeps us from going union and does whatever it wants to us.

This is one of the big reasons Fred hasn't taken away our flight benefits. Having them lends legitimacy to his claim that we actually are an airline and strengthens his iron grip over his workers.

UPS picks-up and delivers it's air products in essentially the same manner as FedEx, yet they aren't an "airline". Curious, isn't it?

[Washu234]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

UPS picks-up and delivers it's air products in essentially the same manner as FedEx, yet they aren't an "airline". Curious, isn't it?

UPS is an airline, well part of it is. Supposedly the Airline part tried to be protected under RLA a few years ago... but I heard that from brownbailout so it might be bull****.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by Washu234

UPS is an airline, well part of it is. Supposedly the Airline part tried to be protected under RLA a few years ago... but I heard that from brownbailout so it might be bull****.

No, it is true--UPS tried to gain the same protections that it is now accusing FedEx of exploiting as an "unfair advantage".

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

No, it is true--UPS tried to gain the same protections that it is now accusing FedEx of exploiting as an "unfair advantage".

Yep, that's true. UPS tried to get re-classified under the RLA and failed. If UPS failed in it's bid, why should FedEx keep their exemption, since they move and deliver their air pkgs in essentially the same manner?

[59 Dano]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

While FedEx has a lot of aircraft, it is not technically an "airline". Both UPS and FedEx are what is known as systems integrators. While it's true that airline operations are a component of both companies they cannot be called "airlines" in the strictest sense of the word.

This is a crucial point, because Fred Smith wants everyone to think that FedEx is strictly an airline...which it isn't. This has allowed him to keep the undeserved RLA "Express Carrier" exemption, the means by which FedEx keeps us from going union and does whatever it wants to us.

This is one of the big reasons Fred hasn't taken away our flight benefits. Having them lends legitimacy to his claim that we actually are an airline and strengthens his iron grip over his workers.

UPS picks-up and delivers it's air products in essentially the same manner as FedEx, yet they aren't an "airline". Curious, isn't it?

UPS Airlines is definitely an airline. The UPS parent company isn't.

FedEx Express is an airline with a fleet of trucks. UPS is a trucking company with a fleet of airplanes.

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by 59 Dano

UPS Airlines is definitely an airline. The UPS parent company isn't.

FedEx Express is an airline with a fleet of trucks. UPS is a trucking company with a fleet of airplanes.

The argument can be made that FedEx Express is an airline, but the FedEx parent company isn't.

Therefore, UPS is an airline too, also with a fleet of trucks. FedEx is a trucking company with a fleet of airplanes.

My logic? The original Federal Express might have been a true airline. The new version is the same operation that UPS runs. Over the years, both UPS and FedEx have evolved into Systems Integrators. That means that the parent company provides an "umbrella" of different services. FedEx Ground is analogous to UPS trucked services, FedEx Express is analogous to UPS Next Day Air, FedEx Freight is analogous to UPS Freight and on and on right down the line.

The bottom line is that both companies essentially do the same thing across the board. Why does Fred Smith deserve a special exemption when UPS does not? As others have pointed out, UPS tried to get re-classified under the RLA for years...and failed. Logically, FedEx should be classified in the same category as UPS.

[Slobberman]

UPS does not run their entities separately like Fedex therefore they cannot be classified under the RLA.Ive always thought that having all the divisions of Fedex run separate was a dumb idea but now I see why it might be worth it.Any move is a good move if you can keep the greedy Teamsters out.TRUST ME!

[Washu234]

Originally Posted by Slobberman

Any move is a good move if you can keep the greedy Teamsters out.TRUST ME!

Prepare to be slammed in 3... 2... 1...

I'm not union man myself, but I won't putdown the teamsters on a UPS (pro union) forum.

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Originally Posted by 59 Dano

UPS Airlines is definitely an airline. The UPS parent company isn't.

FedEx Express is an airline with a fleet of trucks. UPS is a trucking company with a fleet of airplanes.

If we worked for an airline, we'd be union, therefore in Fredologic, we're not an airline but we used to be because of our jumpseat privileges. In more common sense terms...when's the last time you saw anyone pay for a SEAT on one of these planes??? Where are the hot flight attendants?

[quadro]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

As others have pointed out, UPS tried to get re-classified under the RLA for years...and failed. Logically, FedEx should be classified in the same category as UPS.

I think you'll find that part of the reason they failed was because several years before they tried to get RLA status, they didn't want it. They wanted to stay under NLRA because of something to do with taxes (excise tax maybe, can't quite remember) that would have cost them more under RLA. Having done that, they were essentially told by the courts that they can't have it both ways. They wanted NLRA so they are stuck with it.
In other words, the logic isn't quite so simple and obvious as many would like it to be.

[Slobberman]

Its not fair.Why does Fedex get to be classified under the RLA and UPS not?Can someone explain to me the difference?In my opinion this is clearly special treatment and I dont know how they are getting away with it..

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by Slobberman

Its not fair.Why does Fedex get to be classified under the RLA and UPS not?Can someone explain to me the difference?In my opinion this is clearly special treatment and I dont know how they are getting away with it..

Do yourself (and us) a favor and do a search on this topic either here at BC or at your choice of other search engines. You will find all of the information that you could possibly want (and then some) on the subject. Have fun!

[Testicular Fortitude]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

Then Fred has some explaining to do. Check out the guys picture.

Now come on you would not put it past Fred would you.He has been screwing people for years

[Testicular Fortitude]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

Good points. The crews never liked jumpseaters that much unless they were attractive females. True airline employees understand interline etiquette and policies, quite unlike Meth (PCP?) Man on that Southwest flight. Keeping the interline benefits are just another way that Fred "proves" we're an airline when we're not. If we go union, the flight benefits will disappear immediately. No further need to pretend.

If we go union we would be able to afford airline tickets and would not have to fly standby.I have flown standby and only once out of seven times I did not have to wait for a seat.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by Testicular Fortitude

If we go union we would be able to afford airline tickets and would not have to fly standby.I have flown standby and only once out of seven times I did not have to wait for a seat.

And I suppose it's FedEx's fault that the airlines are selling too many tickets and filling their flights?

And I'm curious how you know that if FedEx goes union that the contract negotiated would involve a pay raise?

[olcc]

Originally Posted by quadro

And I suppose it's FedEx's fault that the airlines are selling too many tickets and filling their flights?

And I'm curious how you know that if FedEx goes union that the contract negotiated would involve a pay raise?

A contract would force FedEx to pay market wages. I guarantee you they would increase based on the fact that both UPS drivers and postal workers make more than Couriers. Consider our work somewhere between the two, and you do the math.

There's this incredible (and irresponsible) fantasy that FedEx can't afford to pay any more than they do now--that even giving us our raises this year would have pushed us over the edge. Give me a break! FedEx is an extremely profitable company. In our meeting last month, the senior told us the average yield (profit) on an international shipment (average of letters and packages) is almost $50. How many of those do you pick up in a day? If the answer is three or more, chances are you've paid almost your whole day's wages.

Look at all they provided in the past--wages, benefits, pension, etc.--when they were a much smaller company. Are you telling me with a straight face that any increase in wages would be unsustainable for the corporation? This is the sort of misinformation that prevents any concessions to the hourlies. How about a little appreciation for the employees that bring in 65% of the revenue for the WHOLE corporation?

[Broke]

Originally Posted by Slobberman

UPS does not run their entities separately like Fedex therefore they cannot be classified under the RLA.Ive always thought that having all the divisions of Fedex run separate was a dumb idea but now I see why it might be worth it.Any move is a good move if you can keep the greedy Teamsters out.TRUST ME!

It should not matter if the entities are seperate or not. I deliver packages out of a Delivery truck, and have no contact with a plane. I dont' care if it's ground freight or air freight we deliver, we should be classified according to what we do. If we have direct contact with the airline we should be classified under the rla, if we deliver packages out of a truck or van, we should be classified under the nlra. Should be pretty simple logic.

[Broke]

Originally Posted by quadro

And I suppose it's FedEx's fault that the airlines are selling too many tickets and filling their flights?

And I'm curious how you know that if FedEx goes union that the contract negotiated would involve a pay raise?

That's easy, I don't think we would agree on a contract that didn't have wage increases in it. Nice try though

[MrFedEx]

Originally Posted by quadro

And I suppose it's FedEx's fault that the airlines are selling too many tickets and filling their flights?

And I'm curious how you know that if FedEx goes union that the contract negotiated would involve a pay raise?

No, it isn't the airlines fault. But it is Fred's fault that he pays us too little to just buy a discounted confirmed ticket instead of having to fly standby.

If we don't get a pay raise, what's the point? The whole issue of going union has everything to do with the fact that we have been underpaid for years while the executives of the company have steadily raised their own compensation. Even as profits skyrocketed at FedEx, they took away our pension, extended top-out times to about 15 years, and hired a slew of part-timers to cut FT hours and slash costs. Please remember that all of this happened when record profits were posted year after year.

Now that the economy has gone soft, all of the purple pansies out there want to cut poor Fred some slack while he continues to slash away at our throats with a butcher knife. When are you people going to get it? Hourlies mean NOTHING to FedEx upper management. We are just the box monkeys that deliver Fred's bread and butter. They consider us to be overpaid as it is, and would like nothing better than to cut our wages down to the level of their exalted role model (Wal-Mart).

Fred Smith should have been born into the Walton family (not the TV version) because he thinks just like Sam Walton did. Hire a bunch of dumb hicks, pay them peanuts so you can sell merchandise at low prices, buy all of your goods off-shore to further lower costs and export US jobs, and then fire anyone who even breathes a word about unions. Smith is trying to do the same at FedEx, and so far, we've let the SOB walk all over us without a peep.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by olcc

A contract would force FedEx to pay market wages. I guarantee you they would increase based on the fact that both UPS drivers and postal workers make more than Couriers. Consider our work somewhere between the two, and you do the math.

A contract, if and when it's established, would not force FedEx to do anything they didn't agree to during negotiations. There's no guarantee of anything including even coming up with a contract. The unions and FedEx could negotiate for years before anything is resolved.

Originally Posted by olcc

There's this incredible (and irresponsible) fantasy that FedEx can't afford to pay any more than they do now--that even giving us our raises this year would have pushed us over the edge. Give me a break! FedEx is an extremely profitable company. In our meeting last month, the senior told us the average yield (profit) on an international shipment (average of letters and packages) is almost $50. How many of those do you pick up in a day? If the answer is three or more, chances are you've paid almost your whole day's wages.

Yield is not the same thing as profit. I'm certainly no expert and definitely not a financial guru but you need to understand the difference between yield and profit. Thinking yield is profit gives you a very skewed view of finances.

Originally Posted by olcc

Look at all they provided in the past--wages, benefits, pension, etc.--when they were a much smaller company. Are you telling me with a straight face that any increase in wages would be unsustainable for the corporation? This is the sort of misinformation that prevents any concessions to the hourlies. How about a little appreciation for the employees that bring in 65% of the revenue for the WHOLE corporation?

You mean the misinformation when one employee tells another employee that FedEx makes $50 profit on an international package? Don't take my word for things, don't take your manager's word, don't take anybody's word. Do some research so that you have all the facts and make your own decision as to what's best for you.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by Broke

It should not matter if the entities are seperate or not. I deliver packages out of a Delivery truck, and have no contact with a plane. I dont' care if it's ground freight or air freight we deliver, we should be classified according to what we do. If we have direct contact with the airline we should be classified under the rla, if we deliver packages out of a truck or van, we should be classified under the nlra. Should be pretty simple logic.

If I'm not mistaken, if you call an airline to make a reservation, the person you speak with is covered under RLA but they have no contact with a plane.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by MrFedEx

No, it isn't the airlines fault. But it is Fred's fault that he pays us too little to just buy a discounted confirmed ticket instead of having to fly standby.

How is not the airlines fault? If it's not the airlines fault that they've cut routes and capacities and are filling more of their planes, then whose fault could it possibly be? And to say that it's Fred's fault that employees cannot buy a confirmed ticket is ludicrous. Personally, I fly confirmed 99% of the time I fly and I fly enough to have elite status on at least 2 airlines. I can fly east coast to west coast for less than $250 round trip. For me, there's no point risking flying standby to save ~$100.
Also, if employees cannot afford to fly confirmed, how do they afford the Lexus, or the BMW, or whatever upscale car they choose to drive? I see my coworkers driving these cars all the time. I also see people driving the biggest piece of junk on the road. People manage their money differently and all have different situations. If someone cannot afford a confirmed ticket, it's certainly not because of Fred.

[quadro]

Originally Posted by Broke

That's easy, I don't think we would agree on a contract that didn't have wage increases in it. Nice try though

I agree that it wouldn't make sense to agree to something that didn't include a wage increase but that doesn't mean that FedEx is just going to say OK. It could take years before anything is agreed to and neither you nor anyone else can guarantee that there would be an increase.