DHL Impact on UPS Business from the Trenches - Brown Cafe

FinancialPlanner · 02-05-2007, 01:58 PM

Business First of Louisville - August 30, 2002
by Jim Lovel
Atlanta Business Chronicle

"We are talking about the government of Germany competing against private individuals in the United States," said Norman Black, a spokesman for UPS. "Nothing more. Nothing less."
================================================== ========
From the UPS.COM web site:

In 1999, he was named executive vice president and a year later was given the additional title of vice chairman. Eskew held this position prior to assuming his current role on January 1, 2002.
================================================== =======

Mike was the man in charge when DHL starting rolling its yellow trucks on the streets of America. My question to the UPS drivers is, "Today, from your point of view, how much UPS business has been taken away by the German government backed DHL?"

si_dan · 02-05-2007, 04:25 PM

From observing the trucks they never seem to be blown out.
The drivers do not work at the pace we do. I'm not worried.

derf3733 · 02-05-2007, 04:38 PM

DHL??? Never heard of them... 1 of their guys covers the same area as 6 of our routes and only his shelfs are full never plugged even at Xmas

olebrownie · 02-05-2007, 04:42 PM

Every package they have should be ours - and every job should be ours as well.
Any way you look at it - competing against a government controlled entity is unfair - post office or DHL

scratch · 02-05-2007, 08:51 PM

I have been on the same area for about ten years. Every time I talk to my former Airborne now DHL competitor, he asks me if UPS is hiring. He said that when DHL first took over, they fired most of the drivers, they are non-union contractors down here. They get no overtime, bad pay, and work long hours. The yellow van looks pretty empty too, I wonder how long the Germans will keep throwing money at them.

TugDriver_UPS · 02-05-2007, 09:24 PM

In my hub, we ship half of DHL's freight anyway, especially air cargo. I work on the ramp and I see many items with DHL labels being shipped via UPS. We also de-ice their aircraft as well. If they continue to pay us, oh well...

DS · 02-05-2007, 09:48 PM

the dhl guy in my area has been around as long as I have.
they used to be express airborn...then loomis...now dhl.
He does alright,he does more stops than me but
he starts at 6am and its a lot of singles.

dragracer66 · 02-06-2007, 06:10 AM

My brother inlaw work's for DHL in north jersey as a salesman and until recently used to break my stone's about working for parcel and how DHL is the next big thing. Over the hoilday's he was asking me about coming over to parcel because DHL was getting rid of alot of salesman. I told him he's more than welcome Ups allway's need's toilet and floor cleaner's!!! Yea he's my brother inlaw but he can still kiss my *ss!!!!

good2me · 02-06-2007, 08:49 AM

Olebrownie, I couldn't agree more! We need everyone at UPS getting excited about EVERY pkg that belongs to the competition these days! I see way too many posts that bash the management at UPS, or bash the non-management at UPS...how about if we all get together, get excited, and get EVERY package back from the competition??

just a thought.....

big_arrow_up · 02-06-2007, 09:00 AM

DHL isn't the problem. It's RPS (AKA FedEx Ground). They aren't covering as much area per driver as us but they are puting a big enough dent into our areas to cost us many jobs. The only thing that impresses me about DHL is that they'll make same day deliverys. Example: A doctor I work with in the Air Force Reserves is a civilian doctor with a practice located close to one of the distributors that she orders medical supplys from. The DHL station is located in the area as well. She places orders in the morning and DHL can go by and pick them up at the distributor and then deliver them to her later during the time that he would normally deliver to her. Does UPS ever allow that? I was told not to. I image it was because then the center would lose credit for the origan scan. I think impressing the customers by deliverying next day airs THE SAME DAY they were ordered would be more important than impressing the ties on up in the chain by getting another "number" for the day.

good2me · 02-06-2007, 10:07 AM

Big-arrow, I think there are many, many things that the company considers to continue to add to our portfolio of services...One advantage that DHL has is that they have the support of the Deutsch Post...make no mistake about it, they are willing to absorb cost overruns and lose money to attempt to gain a strong foothold in the U.S. My message is always one of, pride in UPS....our people ARE the best, and we need to become predatory about our packages! Nobody should get to take the packages that belong in brown UPS trucks, that are handled and delivered by UPS employees!!

okay...thanks for listening! Off my soapbox....

browniehound · 02-06-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good2me

My message is always one of, pride in UPS....our people ARE the best,

okay...thanks for listening! Off my soapbox....

HA! That was funny. Have you noticed some of the rif-raf UPS has hired in your center lately?

RockyRogue · 02-06-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browniehound

HA! That was funny. Have you noticed some of the rif-raf UPS has hired in your center lately?

I'd have to agree, Brownie. Seen any gangbangers walking into a UPS building lately?

westsideworma · 02-07-2007, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browniehound

HA! That was funny. Have you noticed some of the rif-raf UPS has hired in your center lately?

that is the result of treating the decent people like morons at least at my hub. Most (notice I say most) people know how to do their jobs just let them do it already. I had someone instructing me about where my airs go today (supe) looks like this

Supe: I put that in the 1000 section...whats it doing in this tote again
Me: I know I moved it to where the driver wants it.
Supe: thats not how PAS works
Me: PAS doesn't work, I'm trying to make my drivers day easier
Supe: *perplexed* what if someone covers for you when you're out or for him
Me: cover drivers seem to know to look through the car or ask (any cover driver thats covered one of my drivers does one or both of these things)
Me: OR you could just have his truck dispatched the way he wants it loaded
Supe: *picks up airs to put them back in 1000*

that pretty much sums it up. I moved them back after he left and notified the steward about it. I know how to do my job, cover drivers are glad to cover a route that I am loading (in fact one even asked if I loaded a certain route today and was disappointed when I said no). I don't get misloads, I don't get complaints, leave me alone and let me do my damn job.

I should add that this is not my line supe, she knows when I am in trouble but also knows I can dig my way out of it normally. She usually lets me go about my business only stopping to tell me if I am expected to get hit hard with certain bulk stops. Thats what I liked. She trained me, she knows I "get" it, so she doesn't seem to worry about me too much.

Want better workers? well for starters you could raise the wage a bit, but thats contract talk which I don't wanna get into, you could treat people like human beings and not dumb monkeys. Because I know for a fact that aside from maybe my line supe and one of our FT supes, I doubt anyone in management can load my trucks as well or better than me and I'd challenge any one of them to do so. Why I've stayed is beyond me, I like the people really. It certainly ain't the job or the pay (yes I know its PT work don't lecture on making a living off it, I don't claim that I should be able to). Maybe I just like seeing what brilliant idea the minds of UPS come up with next.

ups_vette · 02-07-2007, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westsideworma

that is the result of treating the decent people like morons at least at my hub. Most (notice I say most) people know how to do their jobs just let them do it already. I had someone instructing me about where my airs go today (supe) looks like this

Supe: I put that in the 1000 section...whats it doing in this tote again
Me: I know I moved it to where the driver wants it.
Supe: thats not how PAS works
Me: PAS doesn't work, I'm trying to make my drivers day easier
Supe: *perplexed* what if someone covers for you when you're out or for him
Me: cover drivers seem to know to look through the car or ask (any cover driver thats covered one of my drivers does one or both of these things)
Me: OR you could just have his truck dispatched the way he wants it loaded
Supe: *picks up airs to put them back in 1000*

that pretty much sums it up. I moved them back after he left and notified the steward about it.

westside....Are you making it offical that you no longer work for UPS, but you now work for the driver? Is the driver going to pay your benefits in addition to your sallary? Don't take this the wrong way but, you DO NOT work for the driver, you work for UPS, and you work as directed by the supervisor. You better check the contract, because I do believe that failure to follow the instruction of a supervisor is an offence that may be subject to disiplinary action. .

westsideworma · 02-07-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ups_vette

westside....Are you making it official that you no longer work for UPS, but you now work for the driver? Is the driver going to pay your benefits in addition to your salary? Don't take this the wrong way but, you DO NOT work for the driver, you work for UPS, and you work as directed by the supervisor. You better check the contract, because I do believe that failure to follow the instruction of a supervisor is an offence that may be subject to disciplinary action. .

maybe it is, but it doesn't make any sense, he has to dig in his truck to get the airs he gives someone else, they talk about wasting time, when its right there all in one spot he can sort it and give them to whoever it is that takes them and be on his way. The smart thing would just be to PAL those airs to the driver that takes them off him....then this wouldn't even be an issue.

I understand what you're saying (I'm paid to do what they say no matter how ridiculous and counterproductive it is) but its just nitpicking things like this that annoy me, nothing is ever good enough. Its not enough that my drivers like the loads, that I don't have misloads, they have to come up with something, ANYTHING, negative to say (it seems). It just makes it so people don't really care about what they do here because they know it'll never be enough.

I do not care what IE thinks (I should have put that instead of supe, my mistake), they have never done anything that has helped anyone for the most part. This flawed system known as PAS being the crown jewel. It could work if they'd spend the time to work on the problem areas. They're more concerned with the lost volume (we had a big meeting on that today after break)...I wonder if THAT gets fixed THEN we'll focus on the shortcomings...ehh a person can dream can't they?

trickpony1 · 02-07-2007, 05:00 PM

westsideworma-

You get paid by the hour, the driver gets paid by the hour.
Save this surplus energy you seem to have for something that benefits you.

Management is always right and;
everyone else is always wrong.

Don't cast your pearls before swine.

BLACKBOX · 02-07-2007, 06:38 PM

I read an article that quoted a DHL executive saying they won't break even until 2010. Can they absorb this kind of losses and still survive???

All I know is some of the accounts that used DHL say their service and tracking of shipments suck! I knew they'd come back, I guess they had to see for themselves.

25yrvet · 02-07-2007, 07:29 PM

I agree Blackbox. Every couple months there's a new driver in the circus van. None of my customers know his name and sometimes can't even remember the name of the company he works for.
Some shippers will change carriers for pennies a pkg, and most learn their lesson. Those of you who've been at brown for a while remember 'Blair' pkgs? Their stuff was shipped in flimsey, non corregated cardboard. I think brown lost the Harbor freight account to fed ground beef; IMHO their packaging wasn't the greatest either. Point is, if it's a quality shipper we should desire their business if it'll make us $$--but not junk.

westsideworma · 02-08-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickpony1

westsideworma-

You get paid by the hour, the driver gets paid by the hour.
Save this surplus energy you seem to have for something that benefits you.

Management is always right and;
everyone else is always wrong.

Don't cast your pearls before swine.

I know I know it just drives me nuts that they want to save as much time as possible...yet do things to the contrary. Eh its not my company, I don't own stock, not my problem I guess.

rushfan · 02-08-2007, 10:27 PM

I too have had DHL employees ask me if we are hiring. One business on my route would rather use UPS because of me, but DHL is cheaper. She (the administrative assistant a.k.a secretary) says, "The DHL guy smells bad".

Jack4343 · 02-09-2007, 04:37 PM

My route just regained a customer that diverted most of their business to DHL. They left because DHL offered them a ground rate price on a big air shipment. Of course, DHL has missed several p/u days including yesterday. Today when I came to pick them up, the DHL packages that were sitting there yesterday now had UPS labels. One down...many to go. I've seen many small to medium shippers go to DHL when they undercut us but watched many come back within a few months. I'm sure there are good and bad DHL drivers but the DHL drivers I've seen here have a horrible appearance, blast their radios full blast and are constantly on the phone...including while in a customers business. Heck, I even had one DHL driver approach me about buying porn. He had a side business selling porn DVDs and approached everyone about it. Needless to say that he's gone. I don't know what Deutsch Post is throwing their money at but I can tell you that labor is not one of those things. They are paid just slightly higher per hour rates than McDonalds. You get what you pay for I guess. One of my biggest pet peeves is when I got to a dock to make a large delivery, I arrive only to see DHL nosed into the dock, walking into the back door carrying an envelope. Are they not trained to avoid backing or to back first if they have to back? Basis safety stuff...

coldworld · 02-10-2007, 12:58 PM

Im not really sure where ups is loosing money, or volume. We had a PCM a few weeks ago that stated that ups made more money and delivered more packages than the year before. Look at the information about average daily volume. It has been growing on the air and ground side, even with fedex and dhl. Can someone with knowledge explain this to us. Competition is taking our volume but we have record volume, it just doesnt make any sense. Our volume last year grew more than the last couple of years probably because of sales leads, and this year will grow more than 2006 because of national programs going into effect. If ups was loosing substantial volume, they would have pas fixed in a week, along with other things. It just isnt happening.

Channahon · 02-10-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldworld

Im not really sure where ups is loosing money, or volume. We had a PCM a few weeks ago that stated that ups made more money and delivered more packages than the year before. Look at the information about average daily volume. It has been growing on the air and ground side, even with fedex and dhl. Can someone with knowledge explain this to us. Competition is taking our volume but we have record volume, it just doesnt make any sense. Our volume last year grew more than the last couple of years probably because of sales leads, and this year will grow more than 2006 because of national programs going into effect. If ups was loosing substantial volume, they would have pas fixed in a week, along with other things. It just isnt happening.

Some info from the earnings report:

For the full year of 2006, revenue rose almost 12%; operating profit increased 8%, and earnings per share climbed 11.2% to $3.86. The international business reached new heights, reporting more than $1.7 billion in operating profit. The company set a new record for package volume in 2006, delivering almost 4 billion packages or an average of 15.6 million per day.

The fourth quarter produced solid earnings growth despite a slowing U.S. economy. Consolidated average daily package volume rose 3.3%, or 558,000 additional packages each day. Pricing remained firm around the globe. Consolidated average revenue per piece increased 2%.

Ground volume posted a healthy 3.6%
(Peak volume and internet sales)
increase in the quarter. Next Day Air(R) volume declined marginally and deferred volume was flat against strong prior-year results.

Total international export volume grew 11.3%. Non-U.S. domestic package volume posted solid 4% growth as the company overlapped the effect of an acquisition.

Keep in mind Fed Ex Air and Ground use to be our packages. The USPS had been our only competitor for a long time. Even USPS has cleaned up its image and is providing better service on packages. Don't be complacent.
Keep up the great service