how has the attitude of ups evolved to where it is today.

coldworld · 08-21-2007, 11:20 PM

Just want a serious evaluation on how the labor relations of ups has evolved since the start of this company. How are supervisors trained in dealing with their employees. It seems as if there are less "fair" management people around and all anyone wants to do is fire employees for the smallest of issues. I believe this is very poor employee relations and it is a sort of poison within the company. Common sense seems to be nowhere anymore. Does the union have anything to do with this? It seems that if there was no union things would be as bad or worse. Why would ups want this image of micromanagement and harassment/fear toward their employees both union and non-union. It just breeds bad employees who continue the cycle. Why doesnt anyone understand the saying, "happy employees are productive employees." Does anyone else feel the same. I believe ups thinks that all employees are guility of something, and just havent been caught yet. Seems like a very counterproductive thing to worry about, a waste of company time and money in most cases. Wouldnt using this time worrying about fedex be a better business plan?

Harley Rider · 08-22-2007, 02:55 AM

Can't give you an evaluation but I will say this. In the past I always sensed an us vs them attitude from the drivers. Now I see it big time coming from management. Use to we would sit down and try to work things out between us. Now it is gonna be their way or the highway.

longlunchguy · 08-22-2007, 06:21 AM

I have posed this question to my last three center managers.. "Why are we fighting each other when we should be fighting the competition?" Yet it never changes. Do they think drivers are out screwing around every day on the route? Do they think we want to be out there even longer than the 10 hours they dispatch us? And how come a UPS driver can NEVER have a bad day? The guy who is my on road supervisor now was a preloader the same time I was. He was a regular guy, we played a little golf, we hung out some. Not a lot, but enough. Now, he treats me (and everyone else) like crap. I tried to talk to him once, man to man, about lightening up a little bit. I thought he would get a better response from the driver group. He isn't having any of that. He KNOWS and it's his way or you are getting disciplinary action. Most of the guys I work with will go out of their way to help him look bad. I know we should all work together, but management makes it almost impossible.

JustTired · 08-22-2007, 07:15 AM

In my opinion, the whole thing boils down to having an IE guy in charge. Everything has to be accounted for on paper somewhere. "The numbers don't lie" is a lie in and of itself. We could take this a step further and say "The numbers don't deliver pkgs, either." "The numbers don't deal with the customer, either." As a matter of fact, "The numbers don't do anything to make this company money."

To get more production, they think all they have to do is raise the numbers. A human being can only do so much work in a given time, regardless of what the numbers say. But, in the companies eyes, it is no longer our job to service the customers. Our job is to attain their numbers.

If we were machines, they could get us to go faster by sticking a different gear in the appropriate place. If we were computers, they could program us to go faster. But, alas, we are human. The one weak link in the production chain that can't be easily programmed or upgraded. That is, we are the weakest link in the mindset of IE people. But when it comes to servicing the customer and working to retain or develop new business, we are the strongest link. Unfortunately, there isn't a column in the spreadsheet for that.

Until we get a CEO that comes from a background of business development or customer service, I'm afraid we're stuck playing the numbers game and we will be seeing things get worse instead of better.

Don't get me wrong. There is a place for numbers in this business. But they should be analyzed, not worshiped.

Big Babooba · 08-22-2007, 08:18 AM

"The numbers don't lie" is a lie in and of itself. We could take this a step further and say "The numbers don't deliver pkgs, either." "The numbers don't deal with the customer, either." - I like that - I'll have to remember it.

IE stands for Intercourse and Exercise
After they get done screwing with you, they give you the runaround.

wyobill · 08-22-2007, 10:11 AM

I can't disagree with anything you have said. Ups cant ever change because managers are all brainwashed and they dont even know it.
It would be like changing Iraq to our ways. You would have to wipe them all out and start over. It all boils down to money, IE numbers are
all fabricated unrealistic numbers. Its always been about gettting blood out of a Turnip.
Terminations are a way of buissness with UPS. The union gets your job back to avoid wrongful ternimation lawsuits.
We have drivers filing 9.5 hrs worked with 8hr plan days. Our center manager cant do his job and we cant do ours with these type of performance standards. Just telling it how it is. Keep smiling!

dunderchief · 08-22-2007, 10:36 AM

"But, in the companies eyes, it is no longer our job to service the customers. Our job is to attain their numbers."

Just Tired nailed it.

dillweed · 08-22-2007, 11:14 AM

I recently got my Inside UPS and actually read it, being the Centennial Edition.

At the bottom of page four, in a blurb about Jim Casey, it says "Throughout his more than six decades at UPS, Jim reminded executives and employees that good managers are forever 'constructively dissatisfied' , always expexcting more, especially from themselves.

Seems many current managers have warped that good idea so badly that the word "constructively" no longer exists. The word destructive is a better description of what Iv'e seen in my years with the company. dw

MR_Vengeance · 08-22-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley Rider

Can't give you an evaluation but I will say this. In the past I always sensed an us vs them attitude from the drivers. Now I see it big time coming from management. Use to we would sit down and try to work things out between us. Now it is gonna be their way or the highway.

it's like everyone VS everyone, it's a snakepit in my hub.

Sammie · 08-22-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldworld

Just want a serious evaluation on how the labor relations of ups has evolved since the start of this company. How are supervisors trained in dealing with their employees. It seems as if there are less "fair" management people around and all anyone wants to do is fire employees for the smallest of issues. I believe this is very poor employee relations and it is a sort of poison within the company. Common sense seems to be nowhere anymore.

I started with the company in 1975. Our offices were small, we knew
everybody and the atmosphere was friendly. Then as we grew and became more sophisticated, things started changing and rules and attitudes became more rigid.

Two of my managers refused to change their ways when they came back from mgmt school and broke the Golden Rule by explaining some of what went on. And this isn't just at our company. It's everywhere. Management people, regardless if they're worth a you know what or not, not only survive, but they prosper and get promoted.

There are probably a lot of management styles, (and this comes from Dude and I who together have 63 years of UPS under our belts), but unless a manager can break out of his training and think for himself, this company seems to prefer the cookie cutter tactics of the cold shoulder, a lack of respect, bullying, they don't follow thru with what they say they'll do and somehow the incompetent ones are rarely weeded out. We've all heard horror stories about the boss from hell, or have had first hand experience with a difficult one and all of this behavior is like a headlight on a black night. I enjoyed every job I had at UPS but when the boss was a real dweeb, I sometimes let it all out when I felt it necessary and as a result always waited for the other shoe to drop, that my stay in the Emerald City would soon be over and that the wicked witch would fly
thru the air screaming " Go home, Dorothy!" But I never got canned for speaking up. :confused1

I wonder on the happy scale how we feel in comparison to Fedex, DHL, etc. You've got to wonder what the competition does to keep their employees satisfied and committed, but something tells me we're all probably in the same boat.

Fishbulb · 08-22-2007, 01:56 PM

i hate the numbers.... I've been driving for about 4 years now. When I 1st started it was about customer service, the numbers still played a factor but my CM was concerned that we did the job right rather than fast. This past year it seems my building only cares about the numbers though, cutting out split routes as well as regular routes & combining other routes. Guys who have been on the job for 15 years are going to places they've never even heard of. Some of the rookies are doing 180-200 stops per day and if they come in a little too early, they get an extra 20-30 stops the next day. I used to love greeting the customers at their doors, telling them to have a nice day or asking how their newborn child is or whatever but its not possible anymore. I feel like the mailman now(no disrespect to mailmen) just dropping the box at the front door & hurrying off to the next stop, if I got enough time I'll even ring the doorbell. It's so cold to have to work like that. It's like its peak season all year round.

Dfigtree · 08-22-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldworld

It seems as if there are less "fair" management people around and all anyone wants to do is fire employees for the smallest of issues. I believe this is very poor employee relations and it is a sort of poison within the company. Common sense seems to be nowhere anymore

.

dunderchief · 08-22-2007, 02:30 PM

The "attitude of UPS" at my building has turned 180 degrees in less than a year. After seeing a group of managers who, for the most part, cared about their employees and what their employees thought, we now have an entirely new management team that is famous for quotes like "I'll fire him," "that's not with the plan," and "not gonna happen." There have been more part time and driver terminations in the past year than I can ever remember in my 18 years with the company.

I only see my little part of the world so I don't know if this has become the norm everywhere, but I hope not. This approach by management creates a "tight" workforce. No one is willing to think for themselves, no one is willing to try something a little different to see if we can do it better, no one is willing to take any risk for fear of being fired. The safe thing to do is to sit back and ask "What do you want me to do, big boy?"

over9five · 08-22-2007, 02:41 PM

Re: Dfigs post.

Remind me again why I watched that????

sweetshadesbrah · 08-22-2007, 02:43 PM

My center manager is a complete clown. Hes a sneak that follows drivers and takes pictures and video tapes of drivers working and then will try and fire you on made up charges. He'll preach all his nonsense during the pcm's about safety and honesty, integrity, etc blah blah blah but he doesnt practice what he preaches. somedays you'll drive by his house and see his car in his driveway for 3-4 hours in the middle of the day. I'm sure he tells the dm hes out talking to customers or flagging misloads but I know hes watching tv or mowing his lawn.

over9five · 08-22-2007, 02:46 PM

On your next day off why don't you videotape him arriving at his house untill he leaves?

dillweed · 08-22-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

On your next day off why don't you videotape him arriving at his house untill he leaves?

That eyball is just perfect for you

over9five · 08-22-2007, 05:00 PM

"That eyball is just perfect for you "

I was thinking of donating it to LPguy!

mis_load · 08-22-2007, 05:31 PM

In the thirty years come Sept. that I have. I have been really bless with good managers with the exception of one female manager. I almost quit, but a long time ago a fellow upser said "I've seem them come and go but only the stronge survive". And through the years the people part of the company has gone by the way side. The numbers are on, but there still are managers and supervisors out there that care and will buck the numbers. Last time I check our company name it was still United Parcel Service, not United Parcel Money. But, that is the bottom line in today world of Ups. By the way happy founders day next Tuesday to all the hard working Upsers out there, have a wonderful day, its not everyday a company turns 100 years old. Attitude is mine and its just fine Postive Mental Attitude, with a little bit of PMS too.

Just Lurking · 08-22-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mis_load

In the thirty years come Sept. that I have. I have been really bless with good managers with the exception of one female manager. I almost quit, but a long time ago a fellow upser said "I've seem them come and go but only the stronge survive". And through the years the people part of the company has gone by the way side. The numbers are on, but there still are managers and supervisors out there that care and will buck the numbers. Last time I check our company name it was still United Parcel Service, not United Parcel Money. But, that is the bottom line in today world of Ups. By the way happy founders day next Tuesday to all the hard working Upsers out there, have a wonderful day, its not everyday a company turns 100 years old. Attitude is mine and its just fine Postive Mental Attitude, with a little bit of PMS too.

Its just UPS - you wont find anything with United Parcel Service officially. I'm with you one the name though.

They have tried to do away with parcel but it wont go away. I remember when I started 20 years ago that I read in Round UPS - In five years half our revenue and profit will come non-parcel operations. In that 20 years, revenue and profit has increased at least 10 fold but parcel still carries the water at the end of day. Its their cash cow and they know it despite the name change.