Package car driver to 22.3 job need input.

[Brown-out]

I am a full-time package car driver with 1 year seniority as a full-time driver but 12 years total with the company. When I qualified for the Full-Time package car position I thought this is what i worked toward my entire career. But it didn't take me long to see how bad drivers get used and abused. Not only is the job physically draining but mentally as well. it had gotten to the point that i wanted to leave UPS all together. But a few 22.3 classification bids have come up and I signed them. I just got a call Friday from my driver center manager that I may get one of the bids and he needs my decision right away.

The hours for the 22.3 bid suck (Night-sort package handler/ EAM or air driver) and of course it is a pay-cut but it sounds less stressful and less physical.

Still I worry that I maybe making a mistake by leaving driving so soon for a hub job. But in the long-run I am saving my body all kinds of abuse.
Help me out here fellow Brownies.

no dont do it, try being a feeder driver , its alot better

[tritese]

the 22.3 job is definitely less stress........get on the list and then when better hours are offered you will be eligible before someone outside the classification........feeder would be okay if you like to work 60 hours a week......we have several people that did their 1 yr. committment in feeder and then bid on 22.3 jobs.........

[raceanoncr]

Depends on where you are, but you may not be able to get into feeders for long time. So I'd count that out, but if that's what you want, package car is where you should be and stay. Better chance.

Combo job? Do you really want that for a long time? What if volume is such that they don't need any more p/c drivers for a long time? You wanna want til you're eligible again? Just think about it.

Some combo jobs I've seen here really suck. Sweep floors for half, maybe clerk for half. Sweep trailers for half, maybe somethin else. The company could've made em better but they have to teach the union a lesson.

1 yr committment in feeders? Here, no. You stay for at least 3, then have to wait for opening back in p/c to go back.

[hondo]

With 12 years company seniority, are you on your own bid route? Where does 12 years place you in your center's seniority list? How long until you can try bidding a different route? And part of the 22.3 job you think you're up for is EAM, STILL DRIVING! IMHO (and I'm not a driver, so please feel free to discount my input), you are indeed giving up on driving too soon. If you survived 11 years elsewhere in the co., you should be able to make it as a PC driver, unless there's been some serious changes in other aspects of your life.
I think you should give it some more time and thought, take the days 1 stop at a time, maybe try some over 9.5/excessive OT grievances. And leave all the stress behind you once you make it off the property at the end of the day, that's management's problem child.

[Brown-out]

My centers seniority is so top heavy I won't see my own route for at least 7 years. Most of the swing drivers before me have been in this center for about 5 years and are still swinging. The top 10 on the seniority list have over 30 years and are showing no signs of retiring. Hell most of the advice from the drivers in my center have been to get out now before I reach top rate and the money keeps me trapped.

My personal goals are to finish college. I have 2 associates already and want to go back for my bachelors. I can go back for some classes after my shift and UPS offers tuition assistance to full-timers. You can't take advantage of that as a p/c driver.

I think my decision has been made I just wanted to feel out some of the upsers that come to this page.

[hondo]

Originally Posted by Brown-out

My centers seniority is so top heavy I won't see my own route for at least 7 years. Most of the swing drivers before me have been in this center for about 5 years and are still swinging. The top 10 on the seniority list have over 30 years and are showing no signs of retiring. Hell most of the advice from the drivers in my center have been to get out now before I reach top rate and the money keeps me trapped.

My personal goals are to finish college. I have 2 associates already and want to go back for my bachelors. I can go back for some classes after my shift and UPS offers tuition assistance to full-timers. You can't take advantage of that as a p/c driver.

I think my decision has been made I just wanted to feel out some of the upsers that come to this page.

In that case, it looks like we have a winner here, folks! Good Luck!

[guyin916]

Originally Posted by Brown-out

I am a full-time package car driver with 1 year seniority as a full-time driver but 12 years total with the company. When I qualified for the Full-Time package car position I thought this is what i worked toward my entire career. But it didn't take me long to see how bad drivers get used and abused. Not only is the job physically draining but mentally as well. it had gotten to the point that i wanted to leave UPS all together. But a few 22.3 classification bids have come up and I signed them. I just got a call Friday from my driver center manager that I may get one of the bids and he needs my decision right away.

The hours for the 22.3 bid suck (Night-sort package handler/ EAM or air driver) and of course it is a pay-cut but it sounds less stressful and less physical.

Still I worry that I maybe making a mistake by leaving driving so soon for a hub job. But in the long-run I am saving my body all kinds of abuse.
Help me out here fellow Brownies.

this is a common dilemma at the hub i work at. the drivers keep taking the 22.3 jobs and it leaves every part-timer scraping nickels and dimes waiting for the day to go full-time.

[brett636]

Originally Posted by guyin916

this is a common dilemma at the hub i work at. the drivers keep taking the 22.3 jobs and it leaves every part-timer scraping nickels and dimes waiting for the day to go full-time.

The package car drivers in my facility are barred from taking 22.3 combo jobs despite a growing number of drivers who would take them. Do you know what language of your contract and or supplement they use to get into combo positions from package car? Also, do you know if package car drivers get consideration for combo postions over other combo workers who sign up for them? I have heard package car drivers bring this up at our union meetings and our BA just says that combo jobs were created for part-timers to move up.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

The 22.3 jobs are supposed to be filled by part-timers. Many people disagree, but that was the idea with all the new jobs we were "supposed" to get was that the part-timers would have the opportunity to fill these. That is why it is listed under Article 22 which is dedicated to part-timers. They can move to other full-time jobs from the 22.3 jobs, but drivers should not be moving to 22.3 jobs. I am sure deals are made in some locations though.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Brown-out

I am a full-time package car driver with 1 year seniority as a full-time driver but 12 years total with the company. When I qualified for the Full-Time package car position I thought this is what i worked toward my entire career. But it didn't take me long to see how bad drivers get used and abused. Not only is the job physically draining but mentally as well. it had gotten to the point that i wanted to leave UPS all together. But a few 22.3 classification bids have come up and I signed them. I just got a call Friday from my driver center manager that I may get one of the bids and he needs my decision right away.

The hours for the 22.3 bid suck (Night-sort package handler/ EAM or air driver) and of course it is a pay-cut but it sounds less stressful and less physical.

Still I worry that I maybe making a mistake by leaving driving so soon for a hub job. But in the long-run I am saving my body all kinds of abuse.
Help me out here fellow Brownies.

I was gonna suggest to give it some more time, but after 1 year of F/T driving you should know whether the job is for you or not. Sounds like it isn't, good luck in whatever you decide. It's always sad to see people who stick out P/T so long because they want a driving job, only to find out it isn't as easy as it would seem.

[MR_Vengeance]

Originally Posted by guyin916

this is a common dilemma at the hub i work at. the drivers keep taking the 22.3 jobs and it leaves every part-timer scraping nickels and dimes waiting for the day to go full-time.

this has been allowed in all of my local hubs. i know a few drivers who made the transaction from fulltime drivers to 22 combo, in turn their empty spot was filled by few part timers.

[brownrodster]

Originally Posted by Brown-out

I think my decision has been made I just wanted to feel out some of the upsers that come to this page.

Yes!!! go with the 22.3!!! Can you see yourself driving FT pkg car for 20 more years??? sound like 1 year in and you aren't happy.

with that 22.3 job you can definately go to and finish up with school! take this opportunity!!!

I want 22.3 myself... but I'm trapped by the big FT pkg car money. As much as I would love an 8 hour hub job the pay cut (even though I can live off the lower money no prob) is something I don't know if I could handle. Go now before you're trapped!

[HazMatMan]

Originally Posted by Brown-out

I am a full-time package car driver with 1 year seniority as a full-time driver but 12 years total with the company. When I qualified for the Full-Time package car position I thought this is what i worked toward my entire career. But it didn't take me long to see how bad drivers get used and abused. Not only is the job physically draining but mentally as well. it had gotten to the point that i wanted to leave UPS all together. But a few 22.3 classification bids have come up and I signed them. I just got a call Friday from my driver center manager that I may get one of the bids and he needs my decision right away.

The hours for the 22.3 bid suck (Night-sort package handler/ EAM or air driver) and of course it is a pay-cut but it sounds less stressful and less physical.

Still I worry that I maybe making a mistake by leaving driving so soon for a hub job. But in the long-run I am saving my body all kinds of abuse.
Help me out here fellow Brownies.

How would that be less strenuous?? First of all, working nights is not normal for the human body, yeah you can get used to it but it's not good on the body, secondly, you'd be handling a hell of a lot more packages for a lot less money.

[clancemandoo]

If you're having doubts about it now what do you think it will be like in 10,15,20 years. I had same doubts 21 yrs ago and decided to keep driving. This company does nothing but chew you up and spit you out . 22.3 hours do suck but there's a lot less stress and easier on the body. I'm bidding in next bid, it's just not worth it anymore.

[MissedBusiness]

i bid 22/3 after 16 years pc driving. My body couldnt take it anymore. best move i ever made. less money but whatever.
its actually good for other p/ts cuz it opens up a driver position for them to bid.

[VTBrown]

Guys...a few points you all seem to have missed.

He only has 1 year of real seniority as a full-timer. The 12 years as a part-timer translate to absolutely NOTHING in terms of job bidding now.

The 22.3 jobs when they are FIRST (created) posted can only be bid by PART-TIME employee's. Yet once they are up they are available to EVERY FULL-TIME Teamster on the yearly Rebid.

They were created to get more full-time jobs for part-timers. They have. Even if your bumped by a seniority employee.....you stay FULL-TIME. Probably driving.

I see no way the Union would allow them to give NEW 22.3 jobs to full-timers. I also see no way a senior employee who wants one is going to let someone with 1 year of full-time seniority be given one with out going to the Union about it.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Originally Posted by VTBrown

Guys...a few points you all seem to have missed.

He only has 1 year of real seniority as a full-timer. The 12 years as a part-timer translate to absolutely NOTHING in terms of job bidding now.

The 22.3 jobs when they are FIRST (created) posted can only be bid by PART-TIME employee's. Yet once they are up they are available to EVERY FULL-TIME Teamster on the yearly Rebid.

They were created to get more full-time jobs for part-timers. They have. Even if your bumped by a seniority employee.....you stay FULL-TIME. Probably driving.

I see no way the Union would allow them to give NEW 22.3 jobs to full-timers. I also see no way a senior employee who wants one is going to let someone with 1 year of full-time seniority be given one with out going to the Union about it.

Can you tell me where you found the language stating that they are available to full-timers on the "yearly Rebid"? Perhaps it is covered in your supplement but I see nothing stating this in my book.

[RedThunder]

Take the 22.3. I did it after 20 years. 15 as a PC driver. It was the best decision i ever made. The money is still good (23.41 vs. 28.17). I work no overtime and actually have a life now.

As far as being re-bid yearly, that doesn't happen in our area. It's treated as a separate classification. Just like feeder,package,22.3. If someone wants to bump you there has to be a permanent opening. Once they bid into the classification, then at the next bid they can use their seniority to take which ever 22.3 job that they want. For example, i was a feeder coverage driver since '98. I couldn't bump the bottom two guys even though i had more seniority then them at the bid time because i was a package driver and there had to be an opening in feeders before i could bid on a job. Finally took my name off the list this year and still hadn't got a bid run.


I'd jump at the chance if i wanted to continue my education. There is no way you can do that as a package driver.

[VTBrown]

I don't have it in front of me. I will find it and see if it is in the sup.

[VTBrown]

Originally Posted by What'dyabringmetoday???

Can you tell me where you found the language stating that they are available to full-timers on the "yearly Rebid"? Perhaps it is covered in your supplement but I see nothing stating this in my book.

This is from the NMA I will bold the bottom and post more when I find it.

Section 3. Full-Time Inside Wages
The pay rates for full-time inside only jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 under the prior or current Agreement shall be as follows:
August 1, 2002 $18.25
August 1, 2003 $19.00
August 1, 2004 $19.80
August 1, 2005 $20.60
August 1, 2006 $21.50
August 1, 2007 $22.50 These rates shall not apply to any full-time inside jobs guaranteed by Article 22, Section 2 created prior to August 1, 1997.
Part-time employees whose rates are higher than those set forth above who bid into a full-time inside job covered by this Section shall be paid their current inside wage rate plus the general wage increases.
Other part-time employees who bid into a full-time inside job covered by this Section will be red circled at their current wage rate until such time as the calculated progression rate set forth below exceeds that rate. The transfer date will become his/her full-time start date for purposes of applying the progression set forth below:
Start $13.50
Seniority $14.50
Seniority plus one (1) year $15.00
Seniority plus eighteen (18) months $15.50
Seniority plus twenty-four (24) months Top Rate The twenty-four (24) month (top) rate will change August 1st of each year of the Agreement as follows:
August 1, 2002 $18.25
August 1, 2003 $19.00
August 1, 2004 $19.80
August 1, 2005 $20.60
August 1, 2006 $21.50
August 1, 2007 $22.50 Employees who are currently in the above progression as of August 1, 2002 shall be slotted into the above progression or continue at their red circled rate until the new progression exceeds that rate.
Full-time employees who bid into a full-time inside job covered by this Section will be paid in accordance with their full-time seniority date. Full-time employees with two (2) or more years of seniority who bid into a full-time inside job will be paid the top current rate of the classification.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I assume that the part you posted in bold lettering is what you are using for language saying that full-timers can take 22.3 jobs. If that is so, that is great, but I think that could mean full-time inside jobs that were already in existence. I could certainly be wrong and I hope I am. We do not have and 22.3 jobs but maybe someday and I would certainly consider taking one if they would work. Either way, thanks for your views on things.

Stay on as a driver; I have a couple years in as a driver. One question are you getting over 9.5 hours per day? Since you say you are being used and abused is why I ask. Also how much time have you spent being laid off this past year?