Young Drivers

mikeb · 10-09-2007, 06:46 PM

I work in a fast growing area where we have a lot of new, young drivers. Most, if not all of these young men are here for the big money & benefits and they take no visible interest in the union or its activities. Watching this transformation in our workforce has made me wonder. It seems that a lot of the struggles that past teamsters have gone thru has now come home to roost. In other words, young drivers today are the beneficiaries of all the hard times that the teamsters of the 1950s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s fought for. These young guys are spoiled and have it so good they dont realize it. They are members but take no interest in the union and probably rarely vote. I fear that their waning interest doesnt bode well for the future of the union if this is a nationwide problem. Any comments?

ikoi62 · 10-09-2007, 08:26 PM

i would say get used to it, its been going on here northeast for years.
the older drivers go to union meetings and file grievances while the younger ones say who cares it don't effect me so why should i care.
the most you can do is talk to them and give them a little union history lesson and hope as they get older they will understand.

MR_Vengeance · 10-09-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeb

I work in a fast growing area where we have a lot of new, young drivers. Most, if not all of these young men are here for the big money & benefits and they take no visible interest in the union or its activities. Watching this transformation in our workforce has made me wonder. It seems that a lot of the struggles that past teamsters have gone thru has now come home to roost. In other words, young drivers today are the beneficiaries of all the hard times that the teamsters of the 1950s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s fought for. These young guys are spoiled and have it so good they dont realize it. They are members but take no interest in the union and probably rarely vote. I fear that their waning interest doesnt bode well for the future of the union if this is a nationwide problem. Any comments?

That's the type of drivers that UPS is looking for. Young, dumb and more than willing to run all day for 16 bucks. the company is getting smarter too, they know how to squeez those guys by the nuts! once those newbies get into a certain mindset, they are UPS monkies for life. In the sametime, the union is getting weaker and weaker by the year, they let so much go under the table with the company, eventuly it will lose all it's power.

dirty moose · 10-09-2007, 09:46 PM

Ill take a stab at this one, im a younger driver im 23.
What ikoi says is somewhat right, most of us young guys don't have to support a family or kinds, i still live at home.
At this point in my life my time is more important to me than working over time just to stick it to the boss and whatever.

Another thing; being a cover driver isn't easy, its something different everyday.
The way i try and look at it is keep the boss happy and for the time being ill stay in an area i know/like vs. filing a bunch of grivences and giving them problems they and I don't need. And then getting slammed in a area i don't know or don't like.

Its a lot easier for guys with routes to fight these battles because in the morning they go to the same truck and same route, the boss can't stick him in another area.

I like to stay in a area i know, I've been around for about 4 years so im low on seniority and i don't like to play the bump a lower driver off a route game, its just not my style.

What it comes down for me is my time, i like to be in and out of that place as fast as can be, when top pay kicks in ill slow things down a bit.

But for the time being i don't have to support a family, so of course my priorities are different than the drivers who have houses and families to support.

bugman74 · 10-10-2007, 02:24 AM

I am also a new driver (two years) and it is not like I do not care about the union, but I do not know all of the struggles that the teamsters had undergone. Everyday is a learning experience here at UPS, and that includes learning about the union. I agree with the mentality of doing what is right and if I do the right thing, 9 times out of 10 I will not need to file any grievances.

Golfnut54481 · 10-10-2007, 02:30 AM

Things will change....when I started out I didn't go to the meetings. Now I go to as many as I can. It's called growing up...just my opinion

VTBrown · 10-10-2007, 03:36 AM

So we have it easy now because of you guys?

Then WHY oh WHY are all you old timers bitching about how hard the job is or how much they demand out of us NOW?

If it was SO much different years ago and was a harder environment to deal with.....why the complaining now? It should be all roses with us reaping the benefits. Yes? No?

Seems to me.....it's all about how you look at it. We do less miles and more stops and handle more packages then you guys did YEARS ago. Sure you had your beefs....the beefs may be different but there are still beefs today.

My family comes first.....I burn routes up so I can get home to spend time with my kids. I used to run lunches to do so. Trust me if I was coming in early from burning a lunch and they asked me to do more......sure right after I sit here for an hour on BREAK.

Now they have to pay us for all time we are on the clock.....so running a lunch doesn't change much other then I GET that hour of pay.

sendagain · 10-10-2007, 06:23 AM

The younger guys have yet to learn that the company isn't really a family anymore. UPS used to really back it's employees and show they cared, but now it's just about money. If they listened to their people a bit more, they might make some improvements.

The union on the otherhand is largely just another corporation looking out for it's own ass. They have been hanging on for years, hoping to make it through the next contract, and on and on. If they actually got out there and really took organizing workers seriously, they might have gotten FedEx on board a long time ago. Too many of these union leaders are feathering their own nest, getting paid by more than one local, and looking out for themselves. This is one of the many reasons that many people don't trust the union.

diesel96 · 10-10-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTBrown

So we have it easy now because of you guys?

Then WHY oh WHY are all you old timers bitching about how hard the job is or how much they demand out of us NOW?

If it was SO much different years ago and was a harder environment to deal with.....why the complaining now? It should be all roses with us reaping the benefits. Yes? No?

Seems to me.....it's all about how you look at it. We do less miles and more stops and handle more packages then you guys did YEARS ago. Sure you had your beefs....the beefs may be different but there are still beefs today.

My family comes first.....I burn routes up so I can get home to spend time with my kids. I used to run lunches to do so. Trust me if I was coming in early from burning a lunch and they asked me to do more......sure right after I sit here for an hour on BREAK.

Now they have to pay us for all time we are on the clock.....so running a lunch doesn't change much other then I GET that hour of pay.

The only one bitchin here, seems like you.
Are you and your family benefitting the pay, security, health and wellfare, pension and 401k ? If not, you can try working for a non-union carrier. Are you aware that many of us risk our a$$'s fighting and negotiating contracts that you are benefiting from? Are you aware that we ALL have families and they come first to us also?
There's alot of hardships and growing pains we managed to work thru to what this company has grown to become. We experienced this Co. grow from prehistoric stone aged to a very high tech running machine. One thing I had when I was a "young driver" was respect and apprieciation of the "old timers" that set the standards that we all benefit today. And I wouldn't run and skip my lunch and make the "old timer" look bad on his route.(Man Law).
To the "young driver"..it's your choice, if you don't want to join fine, but if you get in a jam don't come begging to the shop steward or union to bail you out. You'll be on your own. Good Luck

PassYouBy · 10-10-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugman74

I am also a new driver (two years) and it is not like I do not care about the union, but I do not know all of the struggles that the teamsters had undergone. Everyday is a learning experience here at UPS, and that includes learning about the union. I agree with the mentality of doing what is right and if I do the right thing, 9 times out of 10 I will not need to file any grievances.

VTBrown · 10-10-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diesel96

The only one bitchin here, seems like you.
Are you and your family benefitting the pay, security, health and wellfare, pension and 401k ? If not, you can try working for a non-union carrier. Are you aware that many of us risk our a$$'s fighting and negotiating contracts that you are benefiting from? Are you aware that we ALL have families and they come first to us also?
There's alot of hardships and growing pains we managed to work thru to what this company has grown to become. We experienced this Co. grow from prehistoric stone aged to a very high tech running machine. One thing I had when I was a "young driver" was respect and apprieciation of the "old timers" that set the standards that we all benefit today. And I wouldn't run and skip my lunch and make the "old timer" look bad on his route.(Man Law).
To the "young driver"..it's your choice, if you don't want to join fine, but if you get in a jam don't come begging to the shop steward or union to bail you out. You'll be on your own. Good Luck

Gee guy do you read this board much? It's pretty much ONLY a bitch session about something.

Hate to tell you.....I was a FedEx courier for almost 4 years before coming here, a highly regarded one at that.

As to making an "old timer" look bad? Please. The one's that follow the methods can not have their routes destroyed by a young gun. My determination to work harder MAY gain me 20 to 30 minutes over the day of a proper "old timer". NO ONE from management is going to question one of those drivers.

Though when you have other "old timers" running almost 2.5 to 3 over and EVERY cover driver runs .5 to 1 over on the same route.......you've got a problem there.

I don't try to make anyone look bad.....but I'm not going to STEAL time due to me being more efficient then the bid driver. Worrying about his feelings.

The fact of the matter is....you "Old Timers" worked for a different beast. We work for a publicly traded company worrying about it's stock holders.

While YOU may have waged a war on some fronts in the past, we are benefiting from. WE OURSELVES are waging another war that FUTURE drivers will be benefiting from.

It's all the same.....the original poster talked as if UPS was a far worse place to be back then. Though if you read into this board much at all.....it seems like people STILL only complain about the Company.

So has nothing changed?

Griff · 10-10-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTBrown

My determination to work harder MAY gain me 20 to 30 minutes over the day of a proper "old timer".

I hope you're kidding. Sprinting all day long, not following the methods and skipping your lunch nets you 30 minutes a day? What planet do you live on again?

I'm 24 and I'll set the record straight right now, anyone who runs all day is an idiot. Anyone who doesn't pay homage to the people who came before him is also an idiot. Finally, anyone who works through their lunch and gives UPS 1 hour of work for free is an idiot of biblical proportions. Everybody who runs has the same excuse about their family being more important, I find this funny. Have fun getting home 2 hours early everyday to the tune of $10-15k less a year.

VTBrown · 10-10-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I hope you're kidding. Sprinting all day long, not following the methods and skipping your lunch nets you 30 minutes a day? What planet do you live on again?

I'm 24 and I'll set the record straight right now, anyone who runs all day is an idiot. Anyone who doesn't pay homage to the people who came before him is also an idiot. Finally, anyone who works through their lunch and gives UPS 1 hour of work for free is an idiot of biblical proportions. Everybody who runs has the same excuse about their family being more important, I find this funny. Have fun getting home 2 hours early everyday to the tune of $10-15k less a year.

Where have you been? Since the class action law suit. If you do not put any lunch time into your diad none is taken out. They can not legally do so.
Kind of makes it hard to "give" them an hour now? Huh? Who's the idiot here?

The Union states when a lunch must be taken. If the route I'm on is not written so I can make service on deliveries and pickups if I take it. I do NOT take it. Thus I am paid for every minute I'm at UPS.

You see....your 24 and it shows. You freaken think my kids are only worth $10,000 to me? My god.....live a little, grow up some and then come back and question yourself on this again later in life.

Griff · 10-10-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTBrown

Where have you been? Since the class action law suit. If you do not put any lunch time into your diad none is taken out. They can not legally do so.
Kind of makes it hard to "give" them an hour now? Huh? Who's the idiot here?

The Union states when a lunch must be taken. If the route I'm on is not written so I can make service on deliveries and pickups if I take it. I do NOT take it. Thus I am paid for every minute I'm at UPS.

You see....your 24 and it shows. You freaken think my kids are only worth $10,000 to me? My god.....live a little, grow up some and then come back and question yourself on this again later in life.

You get written up in most locations for skipping your lunch now. Unless of course you're a bonus boy, then our full of integrity management looks the other way. It isn't a Teamster thing, it's a DOT thing, there are states that require people like us to take a lunch. I've never bothered to confirm this information, but I've heard it many times from many people.

I don't need to grow up to see clearly on this issue. You'll have all the time in the world to spend with your children once your knees go or you suffer a debilitating injury while running. I won't be the one questioning myself in a few years, I promise.

RockyRogue · 10-10-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

our full of integrity management looks the other way.

I won't even START on management integrity after what happened today at my hub. If I was sticking around, I'd be making a loud complaint to the corporate ethics line after today. The problem didn't happen to me but I'm still seeing a little red....-Rocky

DS · 10-10-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTBrown

So we have it easy now because of you guys?
Nobody said that.Fact is, your paycheck is what it because of us.
Then WHY oh WHY are all you old timers bitching about how hard the job is or how much they demand out of us NOW?
What are we going to do,come in here and lie about how great the job is? Most of us come here to relate and learn from others.
If it was SO much different years ago and was a harder environment to deal with.....why the complaining now? It should be all roses with us reaping the benefits. Yes? No?
Why are you so offensive? In the OLD days we were on paper.No diad.
just a clipboard and delivery records with carbon paper inbetween and a different page for each delivery area that got wet, and a cardboard time card.It was called sheetwriting...no scanning
Seems to me.....it's all about how you look at it. We do less miles and more stops and handle more packages then you guys did YEARS ago. Sure you had your beefs....the beefs may be different but there are still beefs today.
Its still a tough job now
My family comes first.....I burn routes up so I can get home to spend time with my kids. I used to run lunches to do so. Trust me if I was coming in early from burning a lunch and they asked me to do more......sure right after I sit here for an hour on BREAK.
Your kids will never see the money you lost eating your lunch
Now they have to pay us for all time we are on the clock.....so running a lunch doesn't change much other then I GET that hour of pay.

You will run out of heartbeats if you keep running...we get paid the same as you for walking.

dirty moose · 10-10-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I hope you're kidding. Sprinting all day long, not following the methods and skipping your lunch nets you 30 minutes a day? What planet do you live on again?

I'm 24 and I'll set the record straight right now, anyone who runs all day is an idiot. Anyone who doesn't pay homage to the people who came before him is also an idiot. Finally, anyone who works through their lunch and gives UPS 1 hour of work for free is an idiot of biblical proportions. Everybody who runs has the same excuse about their family being more important, I find this funny. Have fun getting home 2 hours early everyday to the tune of $10-15k less a year.

like i said before, it doesn't make anyone an idiot, to some people the time is more important than money is.

as far as paying homage, please dont even go there, do you think that guy who has been around for 23 years and takes 20 stops off his route every morning and throws them on my split car cares about homage. please spare me the bs.

The way i always look it is like this, if i know i wont be working over time on a specific day theres no reason not to run and get in early. If im a a split route with no pick ups theres almost no shot at over time. If im covering a route that has its last pick up at 5:00 or later, your damm right im taking lunch and working slower than usual, its all one big game isn't it?

VTBrown · 10-11-2007, 02:52 AM

First of all....you all seem to think the only way to burn a route up is by running.
I'm a 275lbs offensive lineman who still plays semi-pro football. Trust me....I'm very athletic but I am not running through out the day.

My bulk head is closed and I don't drive unsafely.

Don't even try to call me stupid because I'm fair to the company on my time. This job is extremely easy to me. After 4 years I cover 16 or so routes out of our building (rural) and use a map book for maybe on one or two for a couple roads.

My kids are worth it to me. You ask them years down the road what was more important..me screwing the company by going slow or spending an extra hour with them every other day or so.

Again.....it's not a DOT thing. It's a Union thing or was. They didn't want us working through it due to it taking work away from potentially another driver.

In all honesty if your too weak to stand up to management on the lunch thing thats your beef. The contract states when to take it. If you can't take it then because of your dispatch. You don't have to take it. Pretty plain and simple. It's on their shoulders to design and dispatch you so that you can take that hour at the correct time. Our business Agent has already confirmed this.

Time for you to understand.....there are always going to be people better at things then others. I'm not going to feel bad for someone because I can do it better.

upsgrunt · 10-11-2007, 04:25 AM

VT- you sure aren't lacking in self confidence, are you? I felt the same as you when I was younger and that getting in early was worth the extra effort. I can't tell you when exactly it happened, but I promise you it will happen to you also. You will slow down and think to yourself; why did I ever do that? You're at the point where you feel strong and that you could kick the worlds ass, in several years that will change also- trust me.
For the record, all our kids are more important than the job-you're not special because you feel that way. Just remember you are in a race that you have to FINISH to win. You may be in the lead right now, but you still have many years to go. You can't win if you don't finish. Think about that for awhile and do us all a favor and get off the "I'm better than all of you" attitude.