mip

[BSUUPS]

when mip is announced on tuesday, keep in mind that the factor would be over 3 using the old formula - 15% 0f pre tax profits- ...oh yeah, and you would have gotten ALL of it

[rushfan]

BSUUPS:
Remember we are all just prostitutes for the man

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by BSUUPS

when mip is announced on tuesday, keep in mind that the factor would be over 3 using the old formula - 15% 0f pre tax profits- ...oh yeah, and you would have gotten ALL of it

Yes, this is true and there was a time when supervisors didn't get MIP.

The business changes and management is supposed to adapt. We need to focus on things that grow the business and increase value.

Did we do a great job this year? Look at the elements....

P-Man

Yes, I know, another unpopular post.

[Just Lurking]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Yes, this is true and there was a time when supervisors didn't get MIP.

The business changes and management is supposed to adapt. We need to focus on things that grow the business and increase value.

Did we do a great job this year? Look at the elements....

P-Man

Yes, I know, another unpopular post.

Since upper management micromanages from above, I would assume that they did not meet their elements either. I bet that I wrong though. :confused1

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by Just Lurking

Since upper management micromanages from above, I would assume that they did not meet their elements either. I bet that I wrong though. :confused1

All management gets the same MIP factor...

Upper management gets an additional incentive called LTIP.

Its measured differently, but rumor is that its tracking at close to zero.

So, yes, upper management will feel the pain too.

P-Man

[BrownBlackandBlue]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

All management gets the same MIP factor...

Upper management gets an additional incentive called LTIP.

Its measured differently, but rumor is that its tracking at close to zero.

So, yes, upper management will feel the pain too.

P-Man

Okay, P-Man, or should I say, Mr. Davis, we are on to you. What other pain and adjsutments do you have in mind for us?
We are beginining to understand that those with stock options must have those options maximized; those without, must sacrifice to make it so.
Looking forward to an accountant running the company.

Originally Posted by BrownBlackandBlue

Okay, P-Man, or should I say, Mr. Davis, we are on to you. What other pain and adjsutments do you have in mind for us?
We are beginining to understand that those with stock options must have those options maximized; those without, must sacrifice to make it so.
Looking forward to an accountant running the company.

.........The MIP will surely be around 1.2 to 1.4 this year rather than the 3.1 to 3.2 if the old formula was used.....The 5 year plan cuts that in half with the hostahe half not yielding dividends or grtowth....The supervisors/managers in essence are funding a negetive interest loan to UPS plus finaceing the compensations of the division managers and abobe......Dont ever forget that the half of the MIP that is doled out ovet the 5 years is not adjusted for inflation, stock growth or lost dividends.......Its is the year issued dollars ........Im sure that Mr Casey would love to come back & straighten out this mess....

[pretzel_man]

You know, its one thing to complain about the change in MIP. That's everyone's right. Just as much as its my right to support the change.

Its another thing to post incorrect information:

"Dont ever forget that the half of the MIP that is doled out ovet the 5 years is not adjusted for inflation, stock growth or lost dividends.......Its is the year issued dollars ........"

This is not true. The half of the MIP that is vested over 5 years is held in an account. It accrues dividends and stock growth.

"We are beginining to understand that those with stock options must have those options maximized; those without, must sacrifice to make it so."

Stock options are designed to pay rewards if the stock grows. The division managers and above get 1/2 of their options over a number of years (similar to how MIP works). The other half is based purely on growth in stock. Since stock has been pretty flat, that portion of the options are pretty worthless.

If you're talking about LTIP, that one is not paying either (as I've heard).

Because stock isn't growing and key indices (like the MIP elements) are not favorable, no one is getting rewarded.

P-Man

[bones]

P Man, you may be right, no one is getting rewarded, I have 21 years in, 14 in f/t managment, if current MIP rummors are true I will make less this year in total compensation than I did 3 years ago. I have never been one to be negative but looking at the changes over the last 5 or so years I can't see where any have done us much good, grade 16 and below at least, on the other hand I can see where alot of changes have had a negative impact.

Originally Posted by The Man

.........The MIP will surely be around 1.2 to 1.4 this year rather than the 3.1 to 3.2 if the old formula was used.....The 5 year plan cuts that in half with the hostahe half not yielding dividends or grtowth....The supervisors/managers in essence are funding a negetive interest loan to UPS plus finaceing the compensations of the division managers and abobe......Dont ever forget that the half of the MIP that is doled out ovet the 5 years is not adjusted for inflation, stock growth or lost dividends.......Its is the year issued dollars ........Im sure that Mr Casey would love to come back & straighten out this mess....

How are there lost dividends? The RSUs still payout dividends, they just get automatically reinvested through a DRIP.

[nhguy]

Maybe the problem is the elements being used. Can't say that I can directly impact many of those elements. It's another smoke screen that allows the company to give us less and less each year. I will predict that in the next three years MIP will be completely gone for suoervisors. The company continues to make record profits and yet they continue to return less and less to the people that make that happen.

P-MAN, you can tow the company line all you want, the reality is the RSU'S allows the company to hold onto 50% of the money that I earned and it allows them to give it back to me over 5 years. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Last year, I netted a $27.00/month raise after taxes and the increase in my contribution to the flex benefits. My friend above said it right, our earnings are decreasing year after year.

Rmember the big fish always eats the little ones

[truckinnaked]

Didn't this all start unraveling after 1997?

Our "leaders" cut the deals and we have been paying for them.

Is it only the department I am in where 2 year drivers make more that a 19 year FT sup? (including stock)

Not bitter, good for them.

"Legalized extortion is as immoral as legalized abortion."

[brownblood]

NH Guy..I agree. It wouldn't surprise me to see MIP, retirement, health care, and other benefits become smaller and eventually non-exsistent. But unforunately, UPS is not piloting the way for these changes; corporate America is. UPS is just following...

[HOWNOWBROWNCOW]

Pretzel-Man,

I may be mistaken, but I believe that there is a 60% floor on the LTIP award. So even if you are correct about it tracking "close to zero", they still should get 60% of the "Targeted Award". Not quite the same as having the MIP used as a "slush fund" to meet quarterly numbers and actually pay for the LTIP. The MIP in actuality has nothing to do with the elements, it is what they call in accounting "a plug number".

Also, not only was the MIP Award once a flat 15% of profit for the year, the additional incentive of up to one month pay was also in addition to that original 15%.

One more thing to consider is this continual erosion of the MIP is going to have a negative impact on the retirement plan payout as it is based on the high five of the last ten years.

[Bloodybrown]

MIP will be poor(.80 to 1.2), paying the 6.1 billion for the pension buyout will be the excuse. Grade 20( District managers and above) had huge increases in thier salaries this year, in many cases they doubled. The grade 19 and below do all the work and are now treated like peons and paid poorly. There was a time when going into management was rewarded, not anymore, In many cases drivers do make more that a supervisor that has been a around a few years and work very long hours. Its just not right.

[truckinnaked]

Of 300 drivers 240 of them made more. Some well into the 6 figures.

10 Weeks and I retire.

[pretzel_man]

HowNow:

I believe that is incorrect. There is no 60% floow (at least as far as I know). I'll check it...

You are correct about how an MIP reduction can affect pension.


BloodyBrown:

Its not true that Grade 20's and above got huge salary increases. They were subject to the same 3.5% average increase as everyone else.

P-Man

[BSUUPS]

lost 3 more mgt people today in my area....assume they were not interested in sticking it out 6 weeks to have mip in hand...if rumors are correct and it is under 2, i'm not sure i blame them.

We're just going to have to face the business realities. Medical costs are rising, and the 6 billion pension payout will require some sacrifice. The MIP will be as low as ever, drivers will receive split wage increases, and management salary increases will be non-existent. But all this is no excuse for lower United Way and UPSPAC contributions - got it!

[Bloodybrown]

Go look, dig deep, there were huge subsidies paid to grade 20 and above, they were told that they were underpaid for those in the business world with similar responsibilities. It's funny that the success of the company is really with the 19 and below grades. It was not in thier annual salary increase , it was way above and beyond. The MIP was always the big inspiration to move up in the company, but now it has turned into a small annual bonus, its a joke along with the stock options given to grade 18 and 19.

[squeekywheel]

Pretzel Man,

Go check the SEC site for UPS's 8-K posting dated 3/7/07. The filing provides details on the LTIP. At the very end is a performance matrix giving ranges for revenue growth and operating ROIC. As I read it, it would appear the LTIP pays at least 50% unless the 2 measures both hit rock bottom. Unfortunately, the metric values are not included.

As to raises, check the SEC site for UPS's DEF 14A filing on 3/19/07 bottom of page 21: the Named Executive Officers (NEO's) base salary increases for 2006 averaged 4.5% - the other management committee members averaged 4.1%. Not huge increases but higher than the 3% in my area and the 3.5% average you mention.

In this same filing, 3rd paragraph from the bottom of page 24 states the Compensation Committee determined 85% of the target LTIP for 2006 was earned - not bad on top of the 1.6 MIP.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by squeekywheel

Pretzel Man,

Go check the SEC site for UPS's 8-K posting dated 3/7/07. The filing provides details on the LTIP. At the very end is a performance matrix giving ranges for revenue growth and operating ROIC. As I read it, it would appear the LTIP pays at least 50% unless the 2 measures both hit rock bottom. Unfortunately, the metric values are not included.

As to raises, check the SEC site for UPS's DEF 14A filing on 3/19/07 bottom of page 21: the Named Executive Officers (NEO's) base salary increases for 2006 averaged 4.5% - the other management committee members averaged 4.1%. Not huge increases but higher than the 3% in my area and the 3.5% average you mention.

In this same filing, 3rd paragraph from the bottom of page 24 states the Compensation Committee determined 85% of the target LTIP for 2006 was earned - not bad on top of the 1.6 MIP.

Hello Squeeky,

I was told that 2007 was tracking at zero. I don't know for sure since its not calculated yet. I bet I can find the metric somewhere. I'll look.

I think the 2006 LTIP award was an anomaly. It seems wrong for an 85% LTIP... LTIP was supposed to be tied to indices that drive the stock price.

As far as raises, I was responding to this statement:

"Grade 20( District managers and above) had huge increases in thier salaries this year, in many cases they doubled."

The rule for raises was the same for the whole company. If your salary was above the mid point of your salary range, you contributed 2.75% to a "pool". If it was below the mid point, you contributed 4% to a "pool"

The average pool was 3.5%. If one area had higher paid people, relatively speaking, they got a lower average raise.

The pool is then given out based on a number of factors.

In the area I work, there are many long term UPSers who are higher in their range. The average where I am is also about 3%.

P-Man

[SimpleUPSer]

Regarding this statement:

"Grade 20( District managers and above) had huge increases in thier salaries this year, in many cases they doubled."

It is also to important to note that the annual raise is only a portion of total salary. The increase(s) referenced may have been above and beyond that.

The only way to know for sure is if you were a 20+.

Another note on MIP, when they changed the award (prior to the RSU change) to be taxed and then distributed this also affected the amount of our MIP stock award.

Given the change(s), new management people will never reach the full additional incentive unless they purchase.

Stock ownership has long been a part of the UPS culture and one that in my opinion has driven so many of its successes. It seems as if this culture is changing, and it may not be for the best regarding employees.

While we still hear that stock ownership is important, then company's actions seem contrary to that statement.

I also understand that a company needs to evolve with the times, and "transitional impact" is unaviodable, but that should not detract from the organization's responsibility to its people.

It appears as if many people feel that the transition has impacted them, and mostly negative at that.

Has anyone had the opportunity to read the comments from the ERI? Never has there been so many unhappy people at UPS, and a poor MIP will only contribute to that.

My two cents.

[FinancialPlanner]

Originally Posted by BSUUPS

when mip is announced on tuesday, keep in mind that the factor would be over 3 using the old formula - 15% 0f pre tax profits- ...oh yeah, and you would have gotten ALL of it

Exactly how do you figure that? 15 per cent of the operating income divided by "what" exactly? The number of participants? Their salaries? Their MIP factor? How exactly are you coming up with a MIP of 3+? You may be right but we are looking for the facts, mam. Just the facts. Show us the calculation.

And to Scarlet Knight, nice job.

Can you say Pyramid scheme....