No OT for PTRSers (supes)

[westsideworma]

I know this is a largely union board, but I was just curious if other management types (that use PTRS to punch in) were given this demand lately? Did not go over well at our building. I figure well if I'm about to hit 5.5 I'll just leave? What else am I supposed to do? Working and not getting paid for it was precisely what PTRS was supposed to prevent lol. Oh well.

[NO ONE]

I am not a p/t sup, but it's the same in our builing... call it the January effect, We must count all the beans

[dragracer66]

Good...Part time sups shouldn't get any overtime give it to the union partimer that you are sending home in 3.5 hr's only to have you stay and finish there job and be paid overtime for it!!!!

[lost]

Originally Posted by dragracer66

Good...Part time supes shouldn't get any overtime give it to the union partimer that you are sending home in 3.5 hr's only to have you stay and finish there job and be paid overtime for it!!!!

not trying to start a debate, but alot of the time we are told when to send people home we as part time supes are to "work as directed" just as non management employees are. in my bldg, on preload there are jods that we do that are management jobs such as scanning the pkgs on the bottom slide, the out of zones, closures, futures. We can not pass that job to the employees. Believe me I wish I could!!

[westsideworma]

Originally Posted by dragracer66

Good...Part time sups shouldn't get any overtime give it to the union partimer that you are sending home in 3.5 hr's only to have you stay and finish there job and be paid overtime for it!!!!

drag I've never done that, if I send someone home and thats a big IF its when the air arrives and another teamster in seniority order covers their pull. I only do it when I'm told to also, its not like I look at them and go lets screw this PTimer out of hours today....

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by dragracer66

Good...Part time sups shouldn't get any overtime give it to the union partimer that you are sending home in 3.5 hr's only to have you stay and finish there job and be paid overtime for it!!!!

Doccument... Grieve It... Collect $200 when you pass GO...

[magoo57]

Some of us supes like to think that we have some morals.
As far as the oroginal question, as a supe I have been told that you do not go into OT until you hit 27.5 hrs. for the week.

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by westsideworma

drag I've never done that, if I send someone home and thats a big IF its when the air arrives and another teamster in seniority order covers their pull. I only do it when I'm told to also, its not like I look at them and go lets screw this PTimer out of hours today....

Technically that is incorrect... You can not take work away from someone and assign it to another... Seniority is not the issue...

If a new hire is stacked out and someone with 10 years seniority is wrapped up on their trucks, you can not send the new hire home and assign to the person with seniority...

You can ask the new hire if they want to leave early and let the person with more seniority wrap up the trucks. Even then, the person with more seniority has the option of going home first and then the next senior person, etc.

Bottom line is you can not take someone's work away from them... That is grieveable and if the shop steward doesn't know better they need to chat with the Union BA or President...

[bad company]

When I was a part-time sup, which last was about 7-8 months ago, the same rule was in effect. I had no problem with this, because I never wanted to work over 5.5 hours per day. However, when push came to shove and there were no other real options, I worked the hours. I usually made up the time within the week by coming in later or going home earlier.

Some in the management ranks will want you to keep working but keep it off the clock and essentially fudge your own time card. This is the minority though, at least from my experience. If your leaving early and not working overtime affects your operation bad enough, word will eventually get up to the decision maker and overtime will be approved.

Other wise, work till the job is done. And on Friday, call it quits once you reach 27.5 for the week. What does your full-time sup have to say about it? What does he/she want or expect from you?

When I was a pt sup, my management was very approachable and we communicated well regarding every policy, big or small. Hopefully you are in a similar situation. I now know as a driver what it is like to have management who only hear what they want to hear. It can turn a happy work place into a demoralizing one.

[westsideworma]

Originally Posted by LKLND3380

Technically that is incorrect... You can not take work away from someone and assign it to another... Seniority is not the issue...

If a new hire is stacked out and someone with 10 years seniority is wrapped up on their trucks, you can not send the new hire home and assign to the person with seniority...

You can ask the new hire if they want to leave early and let the person with more seniority wrap up the trucks. Even then, the person with more seniority has the option of going home first and then the next senior person, etc.

Bottom line is you can not take someone's work away from them... That is grieveable and if the shop steward doesn't know better they need to chat with the Union BA or President...

Lakeland,

I do ask, I don't just send them home (should have made that clearer), normally the new hires actually end up staying, that is what I meant by sending them home in seniority order (ask the senior loaders first and then on down), someone always wants to go home. I don't just say go home now lol. We're usually wrapped (with ground) before the air so thats normally not an issue (people having work left to do).

However I will say, what you described happens in our building...a lot. When I was an hourly they used to do it all the time to others on our line.

[westsideworma]

Originally Posted by magoo57

Some of us supes like to think that we have some morals.
As far as the oroginal question, as a supe I have been told that you do not go into OT until you hit 27.5 hrs. for the week.

see thats what I thought too! but I guess its just so theres no way we can possibly go over, which is fine if they're going to let me leave early/come in late to make it up (if I'm getting close to the threshold), otherwise its a problem for me.

[Kyle-ProRI]

IDK if supes and regular workers are the same. but we get OT after 5 hours.

[KBlakk]

I am an hourly but a candidate for p/t sup I have a very good relationship with the other sups at my center and they usually are only approved(thats the key here) for OT during peak they can make OT anytime after 27.5 but at my center they usually clock out and then compensated with a day off that doesn't go against thier annual leave.

[toeknee2gx]

Worma,

How long you been a sup? this happens every year in the 1st qtr..Nothing new...Come back in april and we'll see how the NO OT thing is going... LOL

[hiro]

Yeah, this happens at the beginning of every year. Nobody has said anything to us about it yet, even though our sort manager is getting pressured to reduce the ptrs hours.

About the union seniority and sending people home...
In your work area, the higher seniority people are entitled to the available work and you can't tell a higher seniority person to go home before a lower seniority person. But I don't think the reverse is true. Say you are going to send 1 person home, and a low seniority and a high seniority employee both want to leave, you are not required to send the higher seniority person home first. The contract only prevents lower seniority employees from taking work from higher seniority employees. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Now out of respect I would send the higher seniority employee home first if they wanted to, but I don't think it's required.

[KBlakk]

Originally Posted by hiro

About the union seniority and sending people home...
In your work area, the higher seniority people are entitled to the available work and you can't tell a higher seniority person to go home before a lower seniority person. But I don't think the reverse is true. Say you are going to send 1 person home, and a low seniority and a high seniority employee both want to leave, you are not required to send the higher seniority person home first. The contract only prevents lower seniority employees from taking work from higher seniority employees. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Now out of respect I would send the higher seniority employee home first if they wanted to, but I don't think it's required.

This happens at my center very often and is the topic of constant debate, I feel the higher senority employee should be entitled to the day off due to just longevity alone.

[KBlakk]

Originally Posted by hiro

About the union seniority and sending people home...
In your work area, the higher seniority people are entitled to the available work and you can't tell a higher seniority person to go home before a lower seniority person. But I don't think the reverse is true. Say you are going to send 1 person home, and a low seniority and a high seniority employee both want to leave, you are not required to send the higher seniority person home first. The contract only prevents lower seniority employees from taking work from higher seniority employees. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Now out of respect I would send the higher seniority employee home first if they wanted to, but I don't think it's required.

This happens at my center very often and is the topic of constant debate, I feel the higher senority employee should be entitled to the day off due to just longevity alone it's not like its a paid day off the junior employee would still be paid to stay, the only exception should be if the junior employee is feeling under the weather.

[westsideworma]

Originally Posted by KBlakk

This happens at my center very often and is the topic of constant debate, I feel the higher senority employee should be entitled to the day off due to just longevity alone it's not like its a paid day off the junior employee would still be paid to stay, the only exception should be if the junior employee is feeling under the weather.

From what I understand, and I could be wrong (hopefully LakeLand or Red can help here) you start with the senior person first and ask if they want to stay or go home. If there is work (late air, etc) the senior person has the right to stay or go home before anyone with lesser seniority. If they elect to go home then a lesser seniority person will be filling their place due to their choice. As Lakeland said you can't take work away from anyone unless they consent to it (IE:they want to go home and dont care if someone else wraps their pick). This was never told to me when I was an hourly....I would have made more money lol. I would honestly appreciate it if a steward (or other union guru) would let us know the absolute correct procedure because it was never told to me and it would be extremely helpful.

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by westsideworma

Lakeland,

However I will say, what you described happens in our building...a lot. When I was an hourly they used to do it all the time to others on our line.

I have a feeling it happens ALL OVER the country and not just your center and mine...

UPS gets away with it because:

• Part timers just don't care to read their contract or do not understand the contract.
• Union Stewards are unaware of any problems because hourlies do not understand the contract.
• Union Stewards do not understand/know the contract and the supplements.
• Part timers 18 to 23 years old don't care about benefits and most want to work as little time as possible. They bust their butt but they just want to get in and get out. I believe most would be happy working 3 1/2 and out each day while the 25 and up group are more money consious. Look at who sticks around and wants those extra hours people with families or bills or know the value of over time...

I figure - I am here.. I am sweaty.. I may as well hang out and get the extra $ these kids don't want... So thses 18 to 22 year olds run home and play X Box or Wii and then on Friday want to know why my check is more than theirs...

One part-timer in the sort aisle was sent home... Peak 2005... because he had over 60 hours working preload and volunteering to be a driver helper... That is serious holiday ca$h...

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by hiro

About the union seniority and sending people home...
In your work area, the higher seniority people are entitled to the available work and you can't tell a higher seniority person to go home before a lower seniority person. But I don't think the reverse is true. Say you are going to send 1 person home, and a low seniority and a high seniority employee both want to leave, you are not required to send the higher seniority person home first. The contract only prevents lower seniority employees from taking work from higher seniority employees. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Now out of respect I would send the higher seniority employee home first if they wanted to, but I don't think it's required.

You understand it well but the type of thing I was describing is...

Too many times a PT belt supe, Preload Supe or CM will come on a belt and tell ALL PRELOADERS to get off the clock... Even if they are stacked out with packages... Who is going to load these packages? Yes a driver is an hourly and has seniority BUT a drivers job description is not PRELOADER... That is taking someone's assigned work away...

- OR -

It's 8:30 and 99% of the belt is wrapped up except for one new hire kept after peak. The CM says airs are going to be late, keep 4 people and send everyone else home.. You go by seniority and find four that want to stay: One has been there 12 years, one has been there 4 years, another has been there 3 years and the last has been there one year. That is your four by seniority...

You still have that new hire who has been there through peak and hired as permanent January 2... He is stacked out... He has not asked for help loading his cars... Even though the CM said pick four and send everyone home... YOU CAN NOT TAKE SOMEONE'S WORK AWAY AND GIVE TO SOMEONE ELSE...

The new hire was assigned those cars and that is his work...

You can not send one or all four with seniority over to help wrap up those cars UNLESS the new hire asked for help. that is the same as taking work away...

If the new hire asks for help... OR... The new hire asks to go home with the others on his belt and leaves the work to be completed by the remaining four senior hourlies... That is ok...

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by KBlakk

This happens at my center very often and is the topic of constant debate, I feel the higher senority employee should be entitled to the day off due to just longevity alone.

Yes but sometimes you have houries who are EXTRA... They have NO ASSIGNED work area, they fill in for people who call in...

Since they have no assigned work area they have the option to go right at start time or stay on and get their 3 1/2 hours doing porter work, or what ever else they can find...