Ctr. Mgr. "Just rain water" HazMat "Leaker"

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

How does rainwater get on the packages? Doesn't the unload work indoors?

If a package is wet, how is anyone to know if it's a hazmat or not?

Don't touch it, leave the area and contact a sup. That's how it's supposed to work, right?

If it turns out to be rainwater, then isn't it better to be safe than sorry?

If the sup doesn't like seeing the belts shut down due to the rainwater on the packages, then doesn't he/she have a responsibility to find the cause of the rainwater and fix the problem?

Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here.

I would think someone smart enough to play devils advocate could tell the difference between a rain package stained from the outside and a package leaking from within. Could be wrong though.

[BigBrownSanta]

Is it not possible for one package to leak onto another package?

Is it my job to determine the type of leakage?

And, if in the process of determining the type of leakage I am injured, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the safety procedure?

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

Is it not possible for one package to leak onto another package?

Is it my job to determine the type of leakage?

And, if in the process of determining the type of leakage I am injured, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the safety procedure?

I imagine you could go into your package car monday and find numerous packages with stains on the outside. Will you now pull over and contact your supervisor to come out on route and process them as possible haz mats santa?

I'm sure you will experience rain or snow sometime in the next week santa. Pull over when you see rain on your packages and call them all in as haz mats and tell me how it goes.

Or perhaps a little common sesne in applying your training and some gloves may suffice?

[Fnix]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I imagine you could go into your package car monday and find numerous packages with stains on the outside. Will you now pull over and contact your supervisor to come out on route and process them as possible haz mats santa?

I'm sure you will experience rain or snow sometime in the next week santa. Pull over when you see rain on your packages and call them all in as haz mats and tell me how it goes.

Or perhaps a little common sesne in applying your training and some gloves may suffice?

You make good points but I think the wording of the "dont touch leave area..." should be revised to fit a scenario as you stated.

[HazMatMan]

If you want to know why the package is wet just ask a supervisor, they are always touching, moving wet packages out of the unload, off the sort aisles, off the belts. I'm sure they wouldn't touch it if they didn't know what it was. (Much sarcasm intended)

[HazMatMan]

Actually, according to the decision tree for responders there are reasons someone can touch a wet pkg and even contain it into a spill tub and move it to the damaged package work area.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by Fnix

You make good points but I think the wording of the "dont touch leave area..." should be revised to fit a scenario as you stated.

Just to be fair to the issue i have been a trained responder in the past. I have seen people including management not follow the proper procedures. So I understand where many of the posters here are coming from.

I have also seen people like Kyle take it to the complete opposite extreme where every package with a rain drip on it shuts the belt down. It because an obsession for them a way for them to screw up the operation through the application of malicious obedience.

[BigBrownSanta]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I imagine you could go into your package car monday and find numerous packages with stains on the outside. Will you now pull over and contact your supervisor to come out on route and process them as possible haz mats santa?

I'm sure you will experience rain or snow sometime in the next week santa. Pull over when you see rain on your packages and call them all in as haz mats and tell me how it goes.

Or perhaps a little common sesne in applying your training and some gloves may suffice?

I believe your scenario has stepped beyond the bounds of the original argument.

But, if I am in the building and see those wet packages, then yes, I will have them checked before I leave.

If I am on area and I find wet packages after repeatedly opening and closing the rear door, then I will probably assume (and yes I know what happens when you assume) that it's rainwater. Hopefully I won't be wrong. And yes, common sense would prevail.

But, back to the unload situation...

Do you not agree management has a responsibility to eliminate the unloader's objection by finding a way to keep rainwater off the packages?

If not, then in a way, it could lead to complacency.

What happens when a real hazmat that looks like rainwater on a package causes an injury because the unloader assumed it was just rainwater because it's always rainwater on the packages?

That's how the thinking that "UPS doesn't care about safety" gets started.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

I believe your scenario has stepped beyond the bounds of the original argument.

perhaps. I belive you're still trying to play devils advocate.

At this point I believe the original poster has shown an affinity for overstating conditions and over dramitizing the events. He has also shown a rabid determination to maliciously disrupt the operation beyond his normal obligations.

your continuation of this discussion at this point leads us into too many speculative scenarios. As such I would have to physically assess the situation for us to honestly carry on this discussion. That is obviously impossible here.

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by Kyle-ProRI

Well last week I had a leaker in my feeder that had a HazMat pkg. on the side of it. I told my scanner and they notified "DMP". First person to respond was the new center manager, he told me I was over reacting and its just rain leaking into the trailer from the heavy rains we had. Here is his words to me, " We dont have time to respond to every single rained on pkg. When you see a wet pkg. like this, set it aside, take it out when your done" !!!!

This was all after my hands broke out and swelled from that "rained on" pkg. I told head of saftey and she told me "he's the boss, he tell me what to do" . Told me a report was unnecessary.

Call the Employee hotline... Call the Union... and possibly call a lawyer... NO EMPLOYER can ask you to work unsafe or direct you to work unsafe...

Rained on packages... It happens...

Is your Center Manager a Designated Responder? Have they completed the hours of training and yearly recertification? Did the Center manager take out a stip from the response cart and check the Ph level of the UNKNOWN liquid and check the acid level?

You told the head of safety and THEY DENIED YOU PROMPT MEDICAL ATTENTION... Do you know the contents of the packages you touched? Does the safety supe? Did the safety supe show you the MSDS and read to you how that haz mat reacts with water or contact with skin? YOU WERE DENIED PROMP MEDICAL ATTENTION WHEN YOU REQUESTED IT.

You have the right to now seek medical attention on your own and then take UPS to court for 30 mill.

Based on how UPS has been in trouble with OSHA and the EPA in the past, they will probably give you 10 million to keep your mouth shut and go away quietly.

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by Kyle-ProRI

Exactly my point. Even tho he said to move the "rained" leakers. I wouldn't have. But its the fact that he told me to do it, not concerned about my saftey but just numbers. And he tried to prove to my that the box was rain by "just smell it" .. ******if you ask me. Weather I did what he said or not, He's wrong and should be diciplined in the correct manor. Is this worth going to my stewart about or just keep working as i normally would and use my own judgement.

"Its just acid, close your eyes, turn your head, and walk to DMP" In other words

Ok... It sounds like you are a preloader so lets say... The driver reports it as a leaking Haz Mat and then you are fired for "LOADING A LEAKING PACKAGE" that is not proper methods... Or they fire you for improper methods for HANDLING A LEAKING HAZ MAT...

Yes go contact a steward and get the names of all those who witnessed it. In the grievence ask what part of the Designated Responder training involves placing your nose near and inhale?

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by Treegrower

Many years ago I called in a haz mat leaker and the Ctr. mgr told me to keep moving. I told him I was doing as I was trained. He repeated to keep moving. I told him I couldn't because I had also called the local fire dept. Boy did his head explode.

That is NOT proper methods and not following the chain of command within UPS... In the Safety Office there is what is called "the Blue Book," it outlines how haz mats are treated and when an "outside" reposnder is called in...

Fire department is called somewhere after Plant Engineering and the District Safety Manager. UNLESS it is Mercury or employees are passing out all over the place.

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by HazMatMan

Actually, according to the decision tree for responders there are reasons someone can touch a wet pkg and even contain it into a spill tub and move it to the damaged package work area.

Well if you have your PPE gear on... Then you can touch a wet package...

We had a Supe (maybe three or four years ago) that was a designated responder and what ever the leakers was, it burned/ate away at the rubber on the supes shoes...

So yeah the Descision Tree FOR RESPONDERS does say when it can be touched but the responder must call and check out the package first. People who are not Responders would not have access to a spill cart to read the decision tree...

[over9five]

God, I read this stuff and it gets me so mad! Thank God in my (former Package) center they are professionals. I have twice had leakers on my package car.
The first I called in, honestly I was just going to shove it in a couple of DR bags. They said, "No, Over, we'll send someone right out to take care of it". I parked, left the vehicle, and my sup shows up half an hour later. She is a hazmat responder and cleaned it up.
Second time was a major spill, and they sent a hazmat responder. No problem, no questioning my decision to call in either time.

All very professional. Thank you UPS.

[HazMatMan]

Originally Posted by LKLND3380

Well if you have your PPE gear on... Then you can touch a wet package...

We had a Supe (maybe three or four years ago) that was a designated responder and what ever the leakers was, it burned/ate away at the rubber on the supes shoes...

So yeah the Descision Tree FOR RESPONDERS does say when it can be touched but the responder must call and check out the package first. People who are not Responders would not have access to a spill cart to read the decision tree...

Read the decision tree again, it says certain packages can be handled by any UPS personnel even those who have not received special training. It says nothing about wearing PPE...This also does not say responder must check the package first. Also, I am sure management was informed about this part of the decision tree (you know, so they could pull the package out of the trailer, sort aisle, belt, so as not to impede the work flow) so they would not have to go to a spill cart to actually read the decision tree for I am sure it was drilled into their heads. As long as we are on the subject, come to think of it, sups will pull ANY kind of leaker out of a trailer, sort aisle, belt and SAY they knew what it was.