Ctr. Mgr. "Just rain water" HazMat "Leaker"

Kyle-ProRI · 02-12-2008, 09:52 AM

Well last week I had a leaker in my feeder that had a HazMat pkg. on the side of it. I told my scanner and they notified "DMP". First person to respond was the new center manager, he told me I was over reacting and its just rain leaking into the trailer from the heavy rains we had. Here is his words to me, " We dont have time to respond to every single rained on pkg. When you see a wet pkg. like this, set it aside, take it out when your done" !!!!

This was all after my hands broke out and swelled from that "rained on" pkg. I told head of saftey and she told me "he's the boss, he tell me what to do" . Told me a report was unnecessary.

ImpactedTSG · 02-12-2008, 10:01 AM

Don't touch, clear the area, notify a supervisor. Just tell them you are working as you were trained to do.

freeloader · 02-12-2008, 10:19 AM

Impacted is right. If it's a leaker with a hazardous material label on it, refuse to touch it. You should have let the manager pick it up if he was so sure it was just rainwater. Definite wrong move on the manager's part. Your DMP also needs to grow a pair and stand up to the manager, for safety's sake. What's the purpose of having a DMP if they don't do their job?

A long time ago (before DMP and all the current safety procedures), I was in a trailer and there was a leaker. The liquid was clear (just like rainwater) but it ended up being formaldehyde solution and the fumes made me pretty friggen sick. So just because it looks like rainwater doesn't mean anything.

You might want bring this to the attention of the safety committee or the safety manager if it continues to be a problem.

supercool · 02-12-2008, 10:23 AM

I feel like you could grieve him for forcing you to work unsafely (by directing you to handle the package). Only designated responders are supposed to handle any package that is thought to be leaking. By telling you to move it he was putting you in danger.

Big Babooba · 02-12-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImpactedTSG

Don't touch, clear the area, notify a supervisor. Just tell them you are working as you were trained to do.

Looks nice on paper but in the real world when you have a leaker, you are told to bag it and bring it to the rewrap area when you come in. I once had a leaking Hazmat on car. It was lacquer thinner. I called it in and was instructed by my center manager to deliver it next even though I had to break off of my route. He also told me to leave my bulkhead door open to help dissipate the fumes. I delivered it as ordered. I talked with with a safety committee member about the incident the next day.

02-12-2008, 10:25 AM

You need to fill out an injury report and see a doctor of your choice to make sure you are ok.

02-12-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driver x

You need to fill out an injury report and see a doctor of your choice to make sure you are ok.

.......its your own fault for not following the Hazardous Materials methods you were taught when you started & been drilled into everyones head for at least the past 10 years........Always do the Safe Thing....

Fnix · 02-12-2008, 10:56 AM

They do the same at our center and on top of it the supes sometimes get the leakers because they dont wanna pull someone out of production to pick it up.

westsideworma · 02-12-2008, 11:53 AM

See its this type of hypocrisy that gives all management people a bad name. I don't how this would have been handled on our shift. I've seen them put people out on an extendo next to an air trailer and unload it (belt in our air dock was busted) so I can't say it wouldn't have been done the same here. Personally, I don't let any of my employees touch hazmat leakers other than taking it out of their cage if they can't tell its leaking. If they can see that its leaking before touching it (rarely the case) and its a hazmat I would stop the boxline and have a DMP come take care of it. We haven't had such an occurrence since I've been on this particular boxline, but that is what I would do should it ever happen.

Sometimes it seems to me we don't care about safety, honestly. Our idea of safety is making everyone memorize lists of procedure verbatim. While thats fine and good, just because people memorize that stuff doesn't necessarily mean they do it. On the flip there are some people that have trouble remembering them all but are among the safest people I know in our operation. They do all the steps/keys, just have trouble spitting them back EXACTLY how they're listed on paper. I'm not saying we shouldn't remember those things as I believe the 8 keys and 5 steps, if followed, do help prevent injuries. I'm just saying because we pass an audit due to people being able to recite those things doesn't mean we're really gunning for safety. Feel free to disagree.

Kyle-ProRI · 02-12-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supercool

I feel like you could grieve him for forcing you to work unsafely (by directing you to handle the package). Only designated responders are supposed to handle any package that is thought to be leaking. By telling you to move it he was putting you in danger.

Exactly my point. Even tho he said to move the "rained" leakers. I wouldn't have. But its the fact that he told me to do it, not concerned about my saftey but just numbers. And he tried to prove to my that the box was rain by "just smell it" .. ******if you ask me. Weather I did what he said or not, He's wrong and should be diciplined in the correct manor. Is this worth going to my stewart about or just keep working as i normally would and use my own judgement.

"Its just acid, close your eyes, turn your head, and walk to DMP" In other words

MR_Vengeance · 02-12-2008, 02:39 PM

dont let them punk you into doing something unsafe. If anything happened, guess who they gonna blame it on?

currahee · 02-12-2008, 04:08 PM

Its part of their own DOK questions "what do you do with a leaking pkg and you dont know contents" anwser treat as haz mat .
I wouldnt have touched it . If the boss wants to move it fine knock yourself out.
Typical UPS you react in a manner that your trained to and your still wrong.

Treegrower · 02-12-2008, 05:04 PM

Many years ago I called in a haz mat leaker and the Ctr. mgr told me to keep moving. I told him I was doing as I was trained. He repeated to keep moving. I told him I couldn't because I had also called the local fire dept. Boy did his head explode.

brownmonster · 02-12-2008, 05:50 PM

Gee, why don't we take safety training seriously?

tieguy · 02-12-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle-ProRI

Well last week I had a leaker in my feeder that had a HazMat pkg. on the side of it. I told my scanner and they notified "DMP". First person to respond was the new center manager, he told me I was over reacting and its just rain leaking into the trailer from the heavy rains we had. Here is his words to me, " We dont have time to respond to every single rained on pkg. When you see a wet pkg. like this, set it aside, take it out when your done" !!!!

This was all after my hands broke out and swelled from that "rained on" pkg. I told head of saftey and she told me "he's the boss, he tell me what to do" . Told me a report was unnecessary.

ken mei is that you?

I am curious . How did you deal with the hazmat issue. What type of medical treatment did you recieve for your hands? Did you show your hands to the new center manager and if so what did he say.

Did you find out what was in the box that caused the damage to your hand?

Is the new center manager a trained haz mat responder?

Did you recieve the one hour haz mat training and if so what did you think they meant when they said to not touch, leave area and notify your supervisor? were there any odors or fumes coming from the box? Did the box get loaded by you and sent on its way?

dilligaf · 02-13-2008, 05:48 AM

You should file a grievance ASAP!!!!!!!!!!! That sup needs to be held accountable. And you need to watch your haz-mat video again. I was a first-responder and have gone head to head w/ mgt when they tried to force a driver to del a leaker. YOU DON"T DO IT. Any package that is leaking and you don't know what it is consider it to be hazardous. STOP DON'T TOUCH NOTIFY SUPERVISOR 1st Responders are the only one qualified to handle leakers. This at least is the MOST important aspect for any UPS employee, when it comes to this part of safety don't back down. It could very well be the difference in your quality of life.

Baba gounj · 02-13-2008, 06:43 AM

Always think of your safety FIRST.
Most mgt people are fools or total mindless number pushers. They are concerned only with following the words of thier boss. Since when have they actually done some real work?
They claim to run this company, ya on paper only.

BigBrownSanta · 02-13-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baba gounj

Always think of your safety FIRST.
Most mgt people are fools or total mindless number pushers. They are concerned only with following the words of thier boss. Since when have they actually done some real work?
They claim to run this company, ya on paper only.

I had sup tell me "We are trying to run a business here". I told him "Yeah? And you're doing a good job running it straight into the ground".

Kyle-ProRI · 02-13-2008, 11:11 AM

First, thanks for all your comments. I am responding to most of your replies. Less than 24 hours ago I created this thread, seeing as this site is monitored like a prison, Norwood contacted ProRI and union stewarts are already on this, they want me to have a meeting with this guy tomorrow so "He knows what kinda guy you(as in me) are, and make him like you". Why does this seem like a personal issue now rather than a saftey issue? Today I had 2 leakers, one being a liquid the second being a powder. The liquid looked nothing like water but more a oil based product. Either way water or not, Im still doing my job and contacting a sup and getting DMP to control the pkg. Then I get the eyes rolled at me because Im already under the radar for this . Supe comes in trailer, ask me what it is, I dont know, he reads the Ref # on address label and says "its f------ car parts" and removes it from feeder. When DMP comes, he asks me where it is and if I know what it is. Told him about the supe, and he said how does he know what it is? Which is my point in this whole ordeal. Now for the powder, I dont screw with that stuff. There was atleast 2 pounds of it on the feeder floor. Before DMP even is NOTIFIED, supe picks up the package and that much more is on the ground as he walks it out of the trailer. Oh yeah, left my load stand near the pile because I wasnt going in the area no matter what the issue was, before supe even came in the trailer he tell me to take my stand out, while the package is just laying there with a large amount of powder on the ground.... Obviously I refused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_Vengeance

dont let them punk you into doing something unsafe. If anything happened, guess who they gonna blame it on?

Which is another SERIOUS issue. Im allset with being reliable for someones death because its "Just rain water"

Quote:

Originally Posted by currahee

Its part of their own DOK questions "what do you do with a leaking pkg and you dont know contents" anwser treat as haz mat .
I wouldnt have touched it . If the boss wants to move it fine knock yourself out.
Typical UPS you react in a manner that your trained to and your still wrong.

Could careless that he touched it, but he smelled it and said "We dont have time to respond to every single rained on pkg. When you see a wet pkg. like this, set it aside, take it out when your done" Yeah, wasn't rain water, ended up being a mild acidic base t something I believe. Now I have very dry/red skin, and at times get irritaded. But I don't want to get into this, cause I already know this is going to go through the roof tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treegrower

Many years ago I called in a haz mat leaker and the Ctr. mgr told me to keep moving. I told him I was doing as I was trained. He repeated to keep moving. I told him I couldn't because I had also called the local fire dept. Boy did his head explode.

Hah, now I get a

eatin grin when I dispatch a leaker. Sorry I don't even make enough money there to risk my health. What would OSHA want me to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

ken mei is that you?

I am curious . How did you deal with the hazmat issue. What type of medical treatment did you recieve for your hands? Did you show your hands to the new center manager and if so what did he say.

Did you find out what was in the box that caused the damage to your hand?

Is the new center manager a trained haz mat responder?

Did you recieve the one hour haz mat training and if so what did you think they meant when they said to not touch, leave area and notify your supervisor? were there any odors or fumes coming from the box? Did the box get loaded by you and sent on its way?

I told my scanner asap, they told a Supe, I left the feeder. As I do with any Leaker. I did not receive med. treatment. I was instructed to wash my hands and return. I did so and when I returned Ctr Mgr asked to lookat my hands and I noticed they were red, he said I washed my hands too harsh and its from the cold.. Claiming it was just water. I was convinced, continue working as usual. Yes I received the 1hr video, I did everything by the book, nothing different. My hands were exposed to the "rain water" before even knowing it was a leaker Which triggered my concern. Their was no alarming odors, no visible fumes. When my hands were exposed, I placed pkg on ground and that was my last contact with the package.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilligaf

You should file a grievance ASAP!!!!!!!!!!! That sup needs to be held accountable. And you need to watch your haz-mat video again. I was a first-responder and have gone head to head w/ mgt when they tried to force a driver to del a leaker. YOU DON"T DO IT. Any package that is leaking and you don't know what it is consider it to be hazardous. STOP DON'T TOUCH NOTIFY SUPERVISOR 1st Responders are the only one qualified to handle leakers. This at least is the MOST important aspect for any UPS employee, when it comes to this part of safety don't back down. It could very well be the difference in your quality of life.

You have put this the exact way I want people to see this issue. After stewart was notified by norwood, I was pulled aside and asked specifically about my post on BrownCafe.com . I felt a somewhat negative vibe, to the point where the people I should be able to talk to about this are not on my side, even tho he assured me he was. Nice guy, but never trust anyone. Keep enemys closer than friends. But weather I see what the box says is in the package or not, im still not touching it. I could put "Grandmas homemade honey" but it could be 3 kilos of heroin. Do they taste and chem. test every package? LABEL DONT MEAN SQUAT!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBrownSanta

I had sup tell me "We are trying to run a business here". I told him "Yeah? And you're doing a good job running it straight into the ground".

Yeah, stewart told me they dont like when I stop the belt or stop working because of leakers.

Floridacargocat · 02-13-2008, 12:00 PM

Hazardous material comes in all shapes and styles, including properly declared, non-declared and things like ORM-D/consumer Commodity (which is a declaration found in the USA for ground transportation only for specific commercialised products under specific conditions). ORM-D (Other Regulated Material type D) can contain hazardous material in smaller quantities such as AVON beauty products, which would be normally classified as e.g. flammable products (perfumes).
Hazardous material does not always have an odour or emits fumes. Classification must be done by the shipper based on a MSDS. In many instances, shippers simply do not classify properly or "forget" to do it properly, because then this shipper must be certified by UPS as a HazMat shipper.
The trained response "do not touch, secure area, notify designated responder" is the simplest and easiest way to properly address this problem. If not done properly, damage to property and health can follow, which would would make it far more expensive than to simply "disregard".
A hazmat leaker (leaking from a properly declared hazmat package) can only be further shipped in a hazmat salvage package. what sense does it make to ship it further when all the hazmat has already leaked out? Pray tell. In my opinion, this leaking package should be processed internally by the competent persons in that facility with costs charged to the shipper in case non-compliance was determined.
A hazmat leaker should result in an inquiry about the circumstances of why the leak happened at all (proper packaging, absorbent, training, the entire range of questions, and results are sometimes more than shocking.

The last more than expensive case was a $65 mio case in China where a highly corrosive product caused the complete write-off of an airbus A330 due to spillage in the cargo section of a passenger-carrying airplane. What about the Dc-8 fire in PHL where the NTSB could not determine a specific reason but centered its investigation on Lithium-ion batteries, resulting later in new regulations for this kind of product.
I firmly believe that the fines and penalties as described in 49 CFR 107 Appendix A to Subpart D are not always known. It should be an eye opener for those who disregard these legal requirements.
Further, DOT and FAA do not take lightly non-compliance, and prosecute especially if there is bodily damage or injury.
Just FYI, a "rain-soaked" fibreboard box containing properly declared hazardous material does not meet the specific packaging performance criteria, and is therefore not in compliance with 49 CFR. You want more info, pm me.
I have done HazMat work since before the year 2000, was checked out by FAA and US Customs/now CBP and they never had a reason to complain.

Kyle-ProRI · 02-13-2008, 01:36 PM

The DMP employees do a great job and I trust them that they are there for the saftey employees. Oh yah, this guy has 22 years in UPS, guess this is the first time hes ever gotten a phone call... what ever that means? Corp? OSHA? Union? His best friend giving him the heads up? This is more corrupt than anything.

HazMatMan · 02-13-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle-ProRI

Well last week I had a leaker in my feeder that had a HazMat pkg. on the side of it. I told my scanner and they notified "DMP". First person to respond was the new center manager, he told me I was over reacting and its just rain leaking into the trailer from the heavy rains we had. Here is his words to me, " We dont have time to respond to every single rained on pkg. When you see a wet pkg. like this, set it aside, take it out when your done" !!!!

This was all after my hands broke out and swelled from that "rained on" pkg. I told head of saftey and she told me "he's the boss, he tell me what to do" . Told me a report was unnecessary.

How long have you been working for UPS?? You don't know the procedures for leaking packages?? Especially those with diamond labels on them?? If this went down as you say it did, then shame on you, shame on the Manager and shame on the safety person..I deal with sups everyday moving damages from the sort aisles, trailers, pkg cars, belts, all to keep the flow moving. This is a time bomb waiting to go off. First person who gets seriously hurt will be fired (management) for doing something they are probably told to do from the boss man.

Kyle-ProRI · 02-13-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HazMatMan

How long have you been working for UPS?? You don't know the procedures for leaking packages?? Especially those with diamond labels on them?? If this went down as you say it did, then shame on you, shame on the Manager and shame on the safety person..I deal with sups everyday moving damages from the sort aisles, trailers, pkg cars, belts, all to keep the flow moving. This is a time bomb waiting to go off. First person who gets seriously hurt will be fired (management) for doing something they are probably told to do from the boss man.

The problem is, I did the right thing. I was instructed to do an unsafe duty, went the wrong way with me. I spoke publicly, now im being eyed because someone addressed the guy. Im about to blow the roof off this building.

HazMatMan · 02-13-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle-ProRI

The problem is, I did the right thing. I was instructed to do an unsafe duty, went the wrong way with me. I spoke publicly, now im being eyed because someone addressed the guy. Im about to blow the roof off this building.

You did the right thing?? You said you handled the pkg? Correct?? You followed an unsafe instruction from someone who could care less about your safety, next time that happens refuse. You will not get into trouble for refusing to do an unsafe act.

Kyle-ProRI · 02-13-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HazMatMan

You did the right thing?? You said you handled the pkg? Correct?? You followed an unsafe instruction from someone who could care less about your safety, next time that happens refuse. You will not get into trouble for refusing to do an unsafe act.

This all happend AFTER my first dispatch of a leaker, when I was told there more than likely rain water. When I exposed my hand to the 2nd leaker is when the Mgr was getting upset that im making a big deal of what he was assuming was rain water. When I had concern of my hands, he said I just washed my hands to hard and its cold which caused them to turn red and irritated. I think I was wrongfully convinced that it wasnt anything serious And paper work would have been a waste of time.