Innocent until proven guilty? yeah ok

upsgrunt · 02-18-2008, 05:46 AM

I agree with the last couple of posts; you cannot do this job consistantly with only 2-3 hours of sleep. I would say that is your biggest problem. When you are tired, your methods suffer and you start to take shortcuts and get a bad attitude with minor things. Another thing I see is that you are straining yourself patting yourself on the back. When someone comes on this site and basically says that they are the best that UPS has and no one does it better, guess what every reader of that post thinks to themself? I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count. I don't claim to be an expert, but this is just what I see.

preloader · 02-18-2008, 08:08 AM

Yeah, i gotta agree with the sleeping aspect as well. But just think, if you do end up on preload, you can sleep all day, skate all day, whatever you like! Just be sure to be home by 7 pm for sleep cuz man does 2 am come early some mornings.

BTW, i would have to also agree that pointing out the idea that what we do in the early morning while you're still dreaming of how to piss off my customers is "slave work", rest assured that the people you will find in all of our buildings on any shift are among the hardest working, and greatest people you will find. The sacrifices these people make everyday to insure that the big brown machine keeps chugging along by being ready to work at 3 am is astounding.

After 14 years with UPS i have no intention of ever driving, as i am near driver rate anyway and rather like how my life has evolved due to the opportunity given to me to stay on preload. However, the kids on my shift work their asses off and get the brown end of the stick constantly. Furthermore, I think maybe some time on preload may make you appreciate us some, but more importantly appreciate your own position in our company, and maybe one day, even those rude customers that have paid top price to ship their items with us, expect the top service, dont get it, but insted get a mouthy employee, and STILL give us another chance to rectify or reputation.

i dunno, maybe im just another preload slave thats too dumb to figure out how many chances the company owes me. I wonder if i screw up at my hub they will punish me by sending me driving...i hope not, it would screw up my life!

HazMatMan · 02-18-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Haz, he wasn't dissing you--he was responding to Puckin.

Yeah, I kind of thought that, but then saw that he quoted me,that's why i edited my post with a reason, hope he accepts my apology.

02-18-2008, 11:10 AM

Puckin, you don't state where you are from but I'm not aware of anywhere in the country where Management can fire you for excessive customer concerns much less move you from a full time driving job into a full time inside job.

You do not state whether they are paying your your driving rate. If they are not they should be.

Disciplinary procedures are pretty standard throughout the country and without a warning letter in place Management has unilaterally violated the contract in your situation, regardless of what you have do to bring your situation to this point. It wasn't clear whether there was a BA or Steward in each of your meetings but in the last one with the Labor manager, District Manager, and Center Manager it's possible whoever was representing you felt a little overwhelmed.

First of all, if I was representing you I would be filing labor board charges in addition to taking your case to panel. This seems like it is ultimately going to go to arbitration and the Company will lose if all of the facts are as you stated. I would argue that there was no warning letter in place, no language supporting this type of discipline, and show that the company did nothing to improve your customer skills other than removing you from driving. A good BA would request all concerns in the center for the last 9 months at a minimum, and see whether you are 'least best' LOL or not.

So for the time being I would work the inside job for now and keep track of your hours plus the most hours worked per day by any swing driver lower in seniority in the center you were in. If your center does not post the daily WOR for you to record this, ask the steward to request the information for you. When it comes time to compute your back pay I would argue that you were due the difference between the 9 hours you worked inside and the hours worked by the less senior person.

Do not sign anything related to your employment such as the letter or resignation or anything that permanently places you in the inside job. Do not meet with management under any circumstances without a steward. Keep silent if they do not allow you representation and repeat your request each time they ask for a response. Keep notes of everything that has transpired including times, dates, and people involved.

While having you work the inside job is difficult for you, it is preferrable to being on the street and having to deal with your benefits cut off. This could take some time to resolve so be as patient as possible. I would keep in close contact with your Business Agent and be aware of dates and times for panel hearings. I would encourage you to show up at panel to plead your side in person.

There has been a lot of crap posted on here about what you did and how you shouldn't be a driver. Your career choice is no ones business but your own. Management doesnt get to just sweep you under the rug because they don't feel like retraining you. However, I would see this as a 'wake up' call of sorts to prevent this type of hassle in the future. Customer concerns can be interpreted many ways, usually depending on how your Management Team feels about you at the time. Obviously you want to minimize these concerns so just keep a smile on your face, stick to the methods, and do your best to keep the customers on your good side. A tape recorder is handy for those customers you have had problems with before.

In regards to the stop sign, it's never OK to roll through one even if there is snow as someone else posted. UPS drivers are professionals and we follow the law at all times while working. I'd encourage you to modify the number of air stops you can safely take out so that you don't find yourself in this situation again. Notify your center right away if you think you may not be able to make your air on time.

Finally, in the event this case does not go in your favor, I would contact a good labor attorney and pursue charges against the Union. While hopefully this won't happen, it is more important that your career is preserved and others like you are not subjected to this unilateral disregard for the grievance and disciplinary procedures. All of the documentation you have gathered would be critical at this juncture.

Good luck and I hope you are back on the road soon.

Puck · 02-18-2008, 04:52 PM

disciplinary prodeure I wish I could PM you i have so many questions LOL .. thanks for the info you have posted... Im doing everyhthing I can right now to fix this situation but it doesnt help that my BA is on vacation

2Slow · 02-18-2008, 07:12 PM

There's a pretty good chance that you will get your driving job back, I'm the first one to stand up and fight when Managment is acting poorly, but...

That's an awful lot of customer concerns...

What's your deal?
This is a customer service job. We delivery drivers are UPS to the people out in the world. You clearly haven't been acting like it. Figure it out soon, or you will lose one of the battles with managment sooner or later.

2Slow · 02-18-2008, 07:15 PM

Oh, one more thing from someone who's been around in delivery a lot longer than you have.
The customers know we are in a hurry, you don't have to tell them. If they screw you on time one day and you are polite, they are a lot more likely to like you tomorrow. Guess what, when they like you they want to help you.

over9five · 02-19-2008, 06:42 AM

Excellent post by "disciplinary procedure". You should register and become a memeber!

UpstateNYUPSer · 02-19-2008, 02:09 PM

DP--excellent post

Puck--thank you for the user name change

I hope everything works out for you.

doctor brown 688 · 02-19-2008, 04:02 PM

Puck, Hang in there! Deal with the situation at hand,work as instructed while things are being hashed out. Very good advice from DP! Does your local only have one B.A.? Call the Union hall and ask to speak with another B.A. and/or their boss. I know how customers can be at times,my advice is limit your contact with them and just get in and out(I always liked the ones who figure because they are paying,you are their personal shelf stocking boy ha!ha!) The company does not always side with customer, we have several drivers that can't(by customer request) or refuse to deliver to certain stops(customer we have is anal about UPS pulling on his concrete drive,has cussed and called in on at least a dozen drivers,his packages are hold for pick up). Bottom line,those kind of customers are out there but to have as many as you say, you may need to try a different approach once you get things set right.
Best of luck!

local804 · 02-19-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck

disciplinary prodeure I wish I could PM you i have so many questions LOL .. thanks for the info you have posted... Im doing everyhthing I can right now to fix this situation but it doesnt help that my BA is on vacation

Puck
Is your BA Pat D?
718-786-5700 is your locals phone number. If your agent is Pat, Id advise you to hang tight and wait for him.

jbomb1010 · 02-19-2008, 09:56 PM

Puck sounds to me like a very immature kid whose problems are always someone else's fault, because those things couldn't possibly happen to "the" perfect driver. Whoa is me. I say his time is limited at UPS because there will always be things happening that couldn't possibly by his fault. He will eventually bite the hand that feeds him again. Go manage the skating rink and then you can hang out with your buddies, impress the NHLers's and be rude to anyone you want.

over9five · 02-20-2008, 06:19 AM

Puck, I'm disappointed that you changed your great nick. You shouldn't care so much about what people you don't even know think about it.

rod · 02-20-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Puck, I'm disappointed that you changed your great nick. You shouldn't care so much about what people you don't even know think about it.

I agree

Puck · 02-20-2008, 07:39 AM

I was given no choice... cheryl forced me to change it because she recieved " complaints " regarding my user name.....

anyone NOW see my point ? Ive explained my user name many times over... I am misunderstood quite often in my life apparently....

Puck · 02-20-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbomb1010

Puck sounds to me like a very immature kid whose problems are always someone else's fault, because those things couldn't possibly happen to "the" perfect driver. Whoa is me. I say his time is limited at UPS because there will always be things happening that couldn't possibly by his fault. He will eventually bite the hand that feeds him again. Go manage the skating rink and then you can hang out with your buddies, impress the NHLers's and be rude to anyone you want.

Actually pal, I admit I could have handled the situations differenly.. and requested more than once some additional training in customer service issues and how to deal with imperfect delivery situations ect... Ive even requested to be ridden to help improve my methods and what no.. I not saying that its anyone else's fault but what I am saying is that the situatios are being interpreted by the customer and UPS all wrong...theres been times Ive gotten a message in the middle of a delivery that I had to cover a pickup that I know I cant and I let out a sigh and the customer that is there thinks its directed at them for whatever reason... Even my wife has trouble reading me sometimes... I cant tell you how many times she thinks im upset about something and I am cool as a cucumber.... I guess that is why I am so good at poker LOL....

local804 · 02-20-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by over9five

Puck, I'm disappointed that you changed your great nick. You shouldn't care so much about what people you don't even know think about it.

I agree also. I couldnt find it a violation of the tos either.

brazenbrown · 02-20-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck

I was given no choice... cheryl forced me to change it because she recieved " complaints " regarding my user name.....

anyone NOW see my point ? Ive explained my user name many times over... I am misunderstood quite often in my life apparently....

I see your point...you have not graduated from high school yet and thought your cute name would be some kind of clever and amazing thing for all of us to read each time we came on here.

The only ones who liked it were the other high schoolers! GROW UP!!

It only reminded us what a *********** you really are.

Puck · 02-20-2008, 03:14 PM

wow.. brazen, you prolly were " offended" by the janet jackson/justin timberlake mishap at the superbowl.... good god people....

cheryl · 02-20-2008, 03:19 PM

Good manners, tact, diplomacy and hospitality evolve from common-sense and respect for others.

Avoiding being rude requires self-awareness and empathy - you have to make the effort to understand how your behavior affects others.

Some of you obviously find posts that contain vulgar language or double entendres entertaining. The problem is that content can also be offensive to many people, so out of respect for everyone we don't allow that type of content here. If it's reported it will be cleaned up.

As Mother Teresa said, when the house is dirty don't complain or call a committee, pick up a broom and start sweeping.

brazenbrown · 02-20-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck

wow.. brazen, you prolly were " offended" by the janet jackson/justin timberlake mishap at the superbowl.... good god people....

My brother and his kids a 7 year old boy and 12 year old girl and some other family members and friends were over for that Superbowl. The Superbowl is suppose to be something the whole family can watch you know.

To this day I can remember the looks on the kids faces and their questions about what had happened and the embarassment of the parents and myself and all the explaining we had to do.

I guess by your response it's just no big deal...Just like when your rude to all those customers, you just don't get it do you??

Good God Puck what planet are you from??