How Does Everyone Feel About Management Diversity?

[toonertoo]

Originally Posted by over9five

Nothin' wrong with a nice badonkadonk.

WEll if they ever promote anything that looks like the badonkadonk singer, Ill be early for work every day, just to drool. He looks sooooo very good in those tight jeans, Im so sexist..........Heck Ill come in on vaca...........NotI cant say one way or the other from my little corner of the world. we do have one female that I thought got promoted awfully quick, but she seems to do a fine job.. The guys dont want anymore responsibility, maybe she was the only one who applied. In a center far from others I think they like to keep them in a 100 mi radius. I know I would not want the job. Im guessing If I applied I could get promoted, well maybe not because of my age. I have the degree, but I would not want the hours, or the grief. To each their own. And no Im not saying it because I think so highly of myself, but because no one applies. So if a female or other minority applies and have most of what is needed they would promote to help the quota.

[Cementups]

I would really think that a 22-28 yo female would be more likely to take a promotion, especially one that requires relocation, faster than the guy who has been in management for 15+ years. These guys may talk game like they would take the promotion but I would bet that most of them would not feel comfortable uprooting their families.

[beentheredonethat]

Here's my two cents.

Overall I think the whole valuing diversity and getting females and minority into mgmt is a good thing. However, I also think UPS is going about it in the wrong way. I personally believe that on average men and women are equal. Similary I believe that on average each nationality, creed etc is on average as good as any other. If the company wants to have 50% of the div mgrs being female, then 50% of the ctr mgrs should be women. Similary if we want 50% of the ctr mgrs to be female then we need to have 50% of the supervisors being female. This proceeds all the way down to the PT hourlies we have working for us. The problem comes is that we want a number and to get that we promote the best females that are supvs to get the quota of female ctr mgrs. Unfortunately this means we aren't promoting the best qualified people since if only 20% of the supervisors are female and you want half the mgrs to be female you'll get some very well qualified females as ctr mgrs. Unfortunately you will also get quite a few who aren't qualified. If I were a female mgr I'd be upset at how UPS is doing this. Since it could make people wonder if I was the best to get promoted or promoted since I was female. In other words, we need to start from the bottom and work our way up, since if we do it this way, we will have proportionally the correct number of men\women etc etc by hiring and promoting the best.

[LPGuy]

Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason

Long time no post but......

I have received email originating from district level staff asking for female and minority management candidates only. As someone who sat on the pine for more than a year after passing all the requirements for full time promotion this makes me very angry.

VoiceOfReason, I am so glad that you replied to my post. That request for “female and minority candidates only” has also been made in my district. If everyone would just humor me for a moment. Imagine if this were reversed. I cannot begin to contemplate the lawsuits that would result in the company being so brazen as to make a request such as “please submit the names of your white male management candidates.” Even better, what if there were such a thing as “Men’s Leadership Development.” There would be no end to the lawsuits that would follow. I, for one, hope that in 20 years our society looks back on this whole diversity sham and acknowledge it for what it is: reverse discrimination.

One of the problems is that this “diversity” scheme has not been tested in the courts enough to set precedent and scare those who make decisions in legal and HR capacities to rethink this craziness. After carefully studying this situation, I am convinced that the elitists in our organization are pandering to the PC gods by “making a good show of it.” If one were to actually break down the numbers, it is apparent that UPS wants it to “appear” that diversity is paramount. In reality though, how many of you work in a district where more than one or two token minorities are actually division level managers? It has been my experience recently that females are favored for advancement to a manager position but not beyond that level. Often, the individual who is promoted based on the wrong criteria decides that UPS is too demanding. That person leaves UPS and the organization has to replace that person with another female so that the "golden ratio" can be maintained.

Regarding “Channahon”, I appreciate your input. I would, however, like to respond to your response. While conducting my job duties, I often find myself in those diverse communities. Recently, I had the pleasure of having business at a commercial district in a “diverse” community where one of our drivers was assaulted. During my visit, I was hissed at and reminded that I did not belong there. I wonder what would happen if a customer in this diverse community needed to have a trailer unloaded on a Friday afternoon to look for an important package? Depending on whether a WLD tea party was in session, diversity would likely not play a part in the recovery of that package.

“JustTired“, you are a scholar and a gentleman. I remember you from the first time that I put in my two cents. You made me feel welcome and I want you to know that I appreciate it. It does seem that there is a trend toward promoting people who are effective at passing on the marching orders from above. This quality seems to precede leadership capability.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by LPGuy

“JustTired“, you are a scholar and a gentleman. I remember you from the first time that I put in my two cents. You made me feel welcome and I want you to know that I appreciate it. It does seem that there is a trend toward promoting people who are effective at passing on the marching orders from above. This quality seems to precede leadership capability.

I don't know about the "scholar and a gentleman" remark. My management team might disagree. But I do enjoy talking with someone who has a real sense of what's going on and doesn't try to put a "spin" on the situation.

If you are still in LP, I've got a question. Have you noticed, over the past several years, a marked decline in the quality of hourly employee we seem to be getting? Don't get me wrong. We still get some good ones. But, in general, the ratio of good to 'not-so-good' is definitely in favor of the latter. If so......what do you contribute it to?..........lack of a good work ethic, poor pay (p/ters), poor interview process or maybe all of the above. Do you see more dishonesty now than in the past? It, to me, appears that that is the case. But maybe I'm just more aware of it now than I used to be.

In my opinion....the lack of decent pay for p/ters is definitely a drawback to attracting a good employee. Most would rather flip burgers than throw boxes for the same amount of pay. I'm still of the mind, though, that there is a large portion of kids today that even if you paid them $50/hr, would walk away because they don't think they should have to work that hard for their money. What would your answer be to the situation that we seem to be in reguarding quality people?

Sorry....guess I had questions.

[feeder53]

I have no issues with UPS hiring, It is their business. I can not change the process so I work within the system.

[paidslave]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I am disgusted that there are so many young attractive females eagerly looking to advance their careers.

I agree! This is almost reverse discriminaton. If UPS has one women in management, these women pull up in the ranks nothing but females. If you think a women is going to promote a male before a female you are most certainly wrong. I don't like a women running a male dominated work-place where there are no women drivers or very very very few. This appears to me special treatment!.....This is like the husband managing the wife. Instructing her how to run the kitchen, the household or how to give birth and to do it better and faster. Doesn't work well!

ERA- Equal rights AMENDMENT-----man or women, keep em in package for a couple years before promotion just like everyone else has. Pretty sad when someone that can't perform the job (and pretend) tell someone how to do it!


I am a firm believer that you should know how to drive for at least a year and swing/cover to make sure you are able to perform before you should be an On Car Soup! my opinion


We have ex-women clerks now in upper management making the rules bypassing driving!

NO offense to women in the work place but EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL!
Whats your take TIEGUY?

I am a 26 year old female that, until recently, worked for UPS. In my six years with the company, I had worked from union part-timer, to part-time supervisor, to specialist, to full-time supervisor. Admittedly, I moved up fairly quickly through the ranks, but I like to think that I deserved it. I worked hard, always took on the unpleasant projects no one wanted, and got my Bachelors and Masters degrees.

However, I saw MANY people who got promoted who absolutely did not deserve it. A lot of them were women, in fact, but there was a good percentage of white males also. An event that happened in our district all too often was the "demoted manager repromoted." You'd have a long-time manager knocked down a peg for integrity issues (fixing numbers, sleeping with the hourlies) and then re-promoted within a year or two. This was, in my opinion, as bad (if not worse) than a woman being promoted without knowledge or experience. Experience comes with time, and so can knowledge, but to re-promote someone with an obvious integrity issue - you can't LEARN to tell the truth.

And as far as WLD is concerned, it is worthless. I was a "member" of our district's WLD, and it made me laugh. The entire thing was designed to train and retain quality women management, but it never addressed the fact that the CULTURE of UPS management will never allow quality women management to stick around. For a broad example, consider the fraternization rule in management. No member of management is allowed to sleep with, date, or marry any other UPSer. That's fine. However, you have MALE management going on golf vacations with other MALE management, which is a great networking tool. You can never have FEMALE management networking with MALE management unless it's lunch or similar. And even when a female management person goes to lunch with a male management person, more often than not, they might find a security puke on their trail thenceforth.

Additionally, my department was a joke harrassment-wise, and any complaints to HR were swept under the rug. My manager, when I made a mistake, would ask me if I was PMSing. Classy.

Since then, I've found a new job with an even better company. Better pay, better benefits. Boss is not a jerk. Dress code is relaxed (what genius thinks ties in hubs is a safe attire?). When the weather gets bad, we get an early dismissal, not an order to run late air out to the drivers. And when Christmas eve rolls around, I'll be curled up in front of the tree and fire, not putting in shuttle timecards. :-)

[toonertoo]

Excellent post.That last sentence sums it up. Congrats!!

[paidslave]

Excellent post Mud for Blood!


Thanks for your thoughts and opinions!

[Icyqueen]

Hats off to you MUD for BLOOD... looks like I will be following you out the door as well very soon! Too much BS for such little pay! Like you, I will be enjoying the christmas season as well!

[wrenny]

Wow, I remember UPS back in 1990. I was the only woman out of a Night Sort of 265 men in Island City. It took a year to get more women on. I started out as a package handler and was passed over 3 times for a promotion because the management did not think I was tough enough, yet. (That was their reasoning). I was a young Black female.
I remember looking in the yearbooks and not seeing one Black female face Nation Wide in upper management. The closest I saw was a Black male Sort Manager. I don't fault the company, it was a tough environment to get women into in the first place, let alone someone who you could promote. But it made me who I am today, I would hate to see Black Women get special treatment because they are Black and women. I had to work hard and I was pushed hard to be the best, and I think that because of that, everyone that has ever worked under me has benefited and so have I. I was pushed terribly hard and really put through the ringer. Going through that experience has always made me a strong leader who was strong and had compassion - I never lead by way of fear or uncertainty. I would hate to see anyone lead by an idiot.
I worked under a woman who never should have been promoted to a Building Manager position. She was unqualified, and lashed out at people because she had no idea what she was doing. She was totally unqualified and unsure of herself, and everyone suffered. Everyone suffered for two and a half years, it was horrible. They were afraid to fire her because she was a woman and would file a discrimination suit. They did fire her, and her lawyers were something else. It took several more months to make a firm case and get rid of her.

[wrenny]

Sorry, one more thought. (I read a disturbing thing - I'll get to that latter). The first thing is when I left UPS the first time - when I went to work somewhere else- the secretaries had it in for me at my new job. Because they were there for 5 years and never got promoted, and I walked off the street and was a manager. But, that didn't last long, because I obviously knew my stuff - thanks to UPS and being thrown in the fire time and time again, over and over again. But it does amaze me that some women can sit in an office for 5 years and then think that they can run an Operation. TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANIMALS!! Very few women can naturally walk out of an office and lead a Sort or Building. A few women can - but most cannot. Just like a lot of guys in IE -Industrial Engineering wouldn't know how to break a jam if a box crawled up their...
But lastly, the real disturbing thing is women/men being promoted and never having gone out on the road or gotten filthy in a trailer or froze their butts off at JFK in the winter. I even have a problem with those fast tracked and only had to spend 30 days on the road. All of my guys that have ever worked for me have been able to sense that I've sweated my butt off in a truck, or on a dock without me ever telling them. There's a certain amount of insight you gain walking in another person's shoes. I'm a tough SOB at times, but I know when to push, when to back off and how to treat people like human beings. I know when someone's lying to me about their route and when they need help. Part of me is that well educated Black female, college student, and the other part of me has once felt what it's like to be at the wrong end of the yoke and at the end of my rope - you all know the one... I'm going to leave my truck in the middle of the street I'm so burnt out. In order to lead someone, you have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. I'm a demanding person, but I never ask more than I know can be done, and I ALWAYS KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WITH REGARDS TO MY PEOPLE... AND WHEN I DON'T...I SHUT THE HECK UP.

[mattwtrs]

Originally Posted by wrenny

Just like a lot of guys in IE -Industrial Engineering wouldn't know how to break a jam if a box crawled up their...
But lastly, In order to lead someone, you have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. I'm a demanding person, but I never ask more than I know can be done, and I ALWAYS KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WITH REGARDS TO MY PEOPLE... AND WHEN I DON'T...I SHUT THE HECK UP.

Thanks for your insight. I always hated to work for a manager who couldn't do the job and was only good at blowing smoke up my b--t. Same deal with IE people that have never done the job too.

[covemaster]

Originally Posted by over9five

Nothin' wrong with a nice badonkadonk.

sounds like some one will take her and her mom to see Barry Manilow!!!!!

[filthpig]

I'm all for hiring the best man for the job. I'm tired of working for people who do not know what they are doing. Our PT supes are an absolute joke. And I have yet to meet a female supe who was qualified for he job. If you have management skills, you should manage. If not, don't.

[covemaster]

it don't matter what color what sex or religion you are, they screw with everyone equaly,on a side note no one should be promoted into the good old boys club,,storm troopers job also know as mngment unless they can do 1 full year in the concrete jungle,the real world of ups not the fictional clarkville crap you get from the ''book'' come out here and live it before you teach it or preach it!!!! i know tie will have a thing to say and i can take it but you all know that what is learned on a pkg/car cant be learned from a ''clarkville '' video

[over9five]

Originally Posted by covemaster

sounds like some one will take her and her mom to see Barry Manilow!!!!!

Ouch! I think you violated the 150 miles from the building rule!!! (Who was that? Was it D???)

[covemaster]

i can not say who it was ovah, but you know it wasnt me or you and i sure wont give him up

[wrenny]

Wow, no wonder people are leaving UPS. But UPS managers are still better than other companies. I remember Fed Ex Ground hiring a restaurant Manager to manage one of it's buildings in Moonachie... what a disaster!!!
I thought things were bad at UPS. I was upset that my boss at the time never loaded a truck in her life. She was a driver for 3 years, a college grad, and was only in the Army Reserves. They trained her to load a trailer and package car over two weeks along with other Supervisors. I thought it was a joke that she never sweated like the rest of us in a 53 footer loading 13' ceilings. But she still wasn't the idiots you guys are describing. She turned out to be an excellent boss. And had to fight for respect on the dock, because she wasn't, "Born" on the dock like the rest of us... she was from, "Package".
Believe it or not, UPS at least does it right in one respect, they don't hire managers from off of the street directly... Believe me, you NEVER want to see the aftermath of that. Diversity or no diversity, at least you guys hire from within. When you hire people off the street, not only are they not on the same page as everyone else, or in the same book as everyone else, they don't even use the SAME LIBRARY!!