Terminated For Gross Negligence

paidslave · 02-22-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laurietito

Yes, it was arbitrated. Union rep. never discussed case much. I do have a perfect driving record. Wish I could find a good cheap lawyer.. ready to get even@

What was the finding by arbitrator to unhold this decision?

You have lots of support here at the browncafe for this could happen to any one of us!

outamyway · 02-22-2008, 08:44 PM

You should take this to court. Maybe this will be the case that forces UPS to take police reports into account after an accident.

If it wasn't your fault, how is it gross negligence?

laurietito · 02-22-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outamyway

You should take this to court. Maybe this will be the case that forces UPS to take police reports into account after an accident.

If it wasn't your fault, how is it gross negligence?

THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION. THAT IS WHAT IS ON THE CONTRACT.. ARTICLE 17. I EVEN HAD 3 WITNESSES THAT SHOWED THE MOTORCYLCIST SWERVING IN BETWEEN LANES AND SPEEDING!!

laurietito · 02-22-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidslave

What was the finding by arbitrator to unhold this decision?

You have lots of support here at the browncafe for this could happen to any one of us!

Thanks for the support.. I think the vote at the national hearing was decided before we even got there.. My union rep. didn't say much, even saw him laughing it up with the u.p.s boss!!!

DS · 02-22-2008, 09:10 PM

Gross negligence intimates that it was entirely your fault.Looking left right left is no match for a motorcycle travelling at 100 mph .I agree,get a lawyer.

laurietito · 02-22-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS

Gross negligence intimates that it was entirely your fault.Looking left right left is no match for a motorcycle travelling at 100 mph .I agree,get a lawyer.

THANK-YOU.... WHY DIDN'T THOSE U.P.S. BOSSES UNDERSTAND THAT?

DS · 02-22-2008, 09:27 PM

Its probobly policy when a death occurs,and you will probobly have to get another job in the meantime,but you will probobly get your job back with back pay minus what the lawyer charges you...sorry for all the proboblies.Is there a local news article that covered the accident?

Griff · 02-23-2008, 01:01 AM

Find yourself the best wrongful termination/labor lawyer in your area and give him a call. I would do everything in my power, including risking my financial future to secure the best legal options available.

shrimpfire · 02-23-2008, 04:21 AM

I agree get a lawyer

UpstateNYUPSer · 02-23-2008, 04:55 AM

Based solely on what you have told us, I also suggest that you get a lawyer. You should be able to find a lawyer who will handle your case at no charge unless you win, then the fee will usually be 30-35% of what you are awarded, which you can also go after UPS for. Good luck.

Dave Reed · 02-23-2008, 05:13 AM

When I was a union steward I had a similar case. The terms gross neglect and neglect are both legal terms. The standard is so high for gross neglect that it is seldom met. My lawyer friend explained gross neglect this way, if your boss told you a door was broken and to fix it and you did not and someone walks through the door and dies that would not be gross neglect. If your boss after the death instructs you again to fix the door and you do not fix it and someone dies again, then that could be gross neglect, but as my lawyer friend says we would have arguing points.

Notice article 17 of the master says for an accident to meet a firing standard it has to have gross neglect And something else, like 4400 in damage. The word and indicates that both factors must be present. Without gross neglect no one can be fired for a serious accident. I asked the union big boys to argue the above point and they refused. Their comment is we determine gross neglect and not the law or a legal definition.

trplnkl · 02-23-2008, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laurietito

Yes, it was arbitrated. Union rep. never discussed case much. I do have a perfect driving record. Wish I could find a good cheap lawyer.. ready to get even@

Three words that usually don't go together. Start making a few phone calls to Law firms asking if the take cases such as your's on contention ( I tnink that's the right word), where they represent you for a larger % of the awarded monies. If they (lawyer) wins your case they get paid, if they lose no pay. Trust me there is a lawyer somewhere that wants to get their hooks into UP$ and the Teamsters.

UpstateNYUPSer · 02-23-2008, 05:24 AM

The word is "contingency" and, yes, there are plenty of lawyers and law firms that work on a contingency basis; however, some of them will ask you to put up a retainer to cover initial costs so shop around as there are some firms that will do it with no up front costs. Of course, if they are working out of a one-room office above a "We Cash Checks" store you may want to look elsewhere.

trplnkl · 02-23-2008, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

The word is "contingency" and, yes, there are plenty of lawyers and law firms that work on a contingency basis; however, some of them will ask you to put up a retainer to cover initial costs so shop around as there are some firms that will do it with no up front costs. Of course, if they are working out of a one-room office above a "We Cash Checks" store you may want to look elsewhere.

Thank you upstate, I was close. lol Had one beer to many last night was suffering a brain fart.

barnyard · 02-23-2008, 07:04 AM

The OP might check out the legal forum at truck.net. There is an attorney there (he is a regular poster, might even be the moderator) who regularly takes cases for Teamsters who have court actions against their employers. He is in the Twin Cities....

TB

705red · 02-23-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laurietito

Thanks for the support.. I think the vote at the national hearing was decided before we even got there.. My union rep. didn't say much, even saw him laughing it up with the u.p.s boss!!!

What local in chicago are you in? Can you explain to me the steps that have been concluded? Did you just have your panel hearing? After an arbitration it typically takes some time to get the arbitrators ruling. I cannot see the union taking managements side from what you have stated. I had a driver that was involved in a similiar situation were he was involved in a fatality which he was not at fault for. He was deadlocked at panel and before the arbitration the company gave him his job back. Im sure the bosses want you back, but the company is taking a stand because in their eyes you are un-insurable. They are worried what happens if you get into another accident after being involved in a fatality.

trickpony1 · 02-23-2008, 09:42 AM

705red-

Have you ever heard of/been involved in a "8.3 appeal" ?
It may also be known as a "8-3 appeal".
If you have I would be interested in knowing the details.
Thanks.

paidslave · 02-23-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 705red

What local in chicago are you in? Can you explain to me the steps that have been concluded? Did you just have your panel hearing? After an arbitration it typically takes some time to get the arbitrators ruling. I cannot see the union taking managements side from what you have stated. I had a driver that was involved in a similiar situation were he was involved in a fatality which he was not at fault for. He was deadlocked at panel and before the arbitration the company gave him his job back. Im sure the bosses want you back, but the company is taking a stand because in their eyes you are un-insurable. They are worried what happens if you get into another accident after being involved in a fatality.

UPS is being cautious with this and it will take time. I thought UPS is self insured so that wouldn't make sense? He should be looking for another job and apply for unemployment for some income to survive through this ordeal!

tieguy · 02-23-2008, 10:38 AM

what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.

paidslave · 02-23-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.

Management didn't give him any!

You know TIE ALL accidents are avoidable! That being said, UPS is gonna pay hefty because its UPS's fault!

What do you think about that?

trplnkl · 02-23-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.

OK, I am confused now. in one post .... he said...

Quote:

Local Hearing Was Deadlocked. Lost At National Hearing In Chicago..

Was the hearing in Chicago an arbitration or just another panel hearing? That would make a difference...right? I took it as the later, which might indicate something shady going on.

dannyboy · 02-23-2008, 12:14 PM

First off, there are trades made between the company and the union at panels. Basically, I agree to let this firing stand, but you bring back those other four with only suspensions. We will put on a show, but the deal is done. It happens all the time. Its called back room deals, and its great if you are on the good end of the deal, sucks when you are not.

It is also per the contract that in a serious accident, you can be terminated. Usually within a day or so, most terminations like this are overturned locally to a 1, 3, or 5 day suspension without pay. And it is back to normal. But for what ever reason, yours ended up differently. I would need to see a lot of documentation to understand why. And you have not posted enough details for that here.

We have had several accidents where drivers have been involved with several deaths, two with cyclists one of which the driver was not even in the truck, and one where relatives of a manger were driving without lights on a rainy night running from the police, and slammed into the side of a set of doubles that were accross the road, killing all in the car.

In each of these cases, even though the driver was originally fired, they got their jobs back, one with back pay.

One item that has not been brought out, and this is assuming what you have posted is the truth, as you have not filled in a lot of areas on this matter.

Since you stated that the guy was driving very recklessly, and you lost your job because of that wreck, you have been damaged. It would stand to reason that because of his reckless actions, you can sue his insurance to be compensated for your job loss, and any lost wages past, present and future. So if you indeed have exhausted your union options, you need to get a good lawyer. Perferably one with a good track record and part of a larger practice. And if UPS actually did charge you with gross negligence, and you had no culpability in the accident, UPS would also be a target for legal action.

Get some professional help. Soon.

d