Terminated For Gross Negligence

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

When I was a union steward I had a similar case. The terms gross neglect and neglect are both legal terms. The standard is so high for gross neglect that it is seldom met. My lawyer friend explained gross neglect this way, if your boss told you a door was broken and to fix it and you did not and someone walks through the door and dies that would not be gross neglect. If your boss after the death instructs you again to fix the door and you do not fix it and someone dies again, then that could be gross neglect, but as my lawyer friend says we would have arguing points.

Notice article 17 of the master says for an accident to meet a firing standard it has to have gross neglect And something else, like 4400 in damage. The word and indicates that both factors must be present. Without gross neglect no one can be fired for a serious accident. I asked the union big boys to argue the above point and they refused. Their comment is we determine gross neglect and not the law or a legal definition.

In the case you are talking about did the driver get his driver back??? Those union big boys sure don't say much because it is no there money lost or kids insurance!!! Thanks for the comment.

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by barnyard

The OP might check out the legal forum at truck.net. There is an attorney there (he is a regular poster, might even be the moderator) who regularly takes cases for Teamsters who have court actions against their employers. He is in the Twin Cities....

TB

What it the OP???

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by 705red

What local in chicago are you in? Can you explain to me the steps that have been concluded? Did you just have your panel hearing? After an arbitration it typically takes some time to get the arbitrators ruling. I cannot see the union taking managements side from what you have stated. I had a driver that was involved in a similiar situation were he was involved in a fatality which he was not at fault for. He was deadlocked at panel and before the arbitration the company gave him his job back. Im sure the bosses want you back, but the company is taking a stand because in their eyes you are un-insurable. They are worried what happens if you get into another accident after being involved in a fatality.

I am from Indiana. Yes, we had the panel hearing last week... The union rep said the case could have went either way. He wasn't surprised... The only job they offered was a janitorial combo job loading trucks... 3 am- noon.... sucky hours / degrading/ pay cut/

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by paidslave

UPS is being cautious with this and it will take time. I thought UPS is self insured so that wouldn't make sense? He should be looking for another job and apply for unemployment for some income to survive through this ordeal!

Unemployment didn't go through cause I was not totally fired from the company until last week. Accident happened last June... Got another job but with no benefits/ less pay!! Surviving is rough when your used to making that big money..

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by tieguy

what were the reasons they charged you with gross negligence.

What were the reasons the arbitrator gave for agreeing you should lose your job.

In the contract that is all they could come up with.They did not give any reasons..... called it a discharge and said it was over..

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by laurietito

Anyone out there terminated for gross negligence even though it was not your fault?????? Any suggestions how to get back at UPS??

[quote=laurietito;305997]Too Late... Local Hearing Was Deadlocked. Lost At National Hearing In Chicago.. 13 Years Down The Drain...[/quote]

Originally Posted by laurietito

This is totally true. Termination process did take 8 months. Just ended last week. Just still in shock , wondering about options..

Originally Posted by laurietito

I am from Indiana. Yes, we had the panel hearing last week... The union rep said the case could have went either way. He wasn't surprised... The only job they offered was a janitorial combo job loading trucks... 3 am- noon.... sucky hours / degrading/ pay cut/

offered you a combo job or terminated you?

Hark! I hear the sounds of an approaching troll!

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by paidslave

Management didn't give him any!


You know TIE ALL accidents are avoidable! That being said, UPS is gonna pay hefty because its UPS's fault!

What do you think about that?

You are right there famous saying is all accidents are avoidable but you have to run 300 stops in a day.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by laurietito

In the contract that is all they could come up with.They did not give any reasons..... called it a discharge and said it was over..

why are you reluctant to give details on the accident.

what happened in the accident and where or how were you considered grossly negligent.

[laurietito]

[quote=tieguy;306336]

Originally Posted by laurietito

Too Late... Local Hearing Was Deadlocked. Lost At National Hearing In Chicago.. 13 Years Down The Drain...[/quote]





offered you a combo job or terminated you?

Hark! I hear the sounds of an approaching troll!

Offered combo job before the local hearing, denied the offer, deadlocked at local hearing, then discharged at national hearing.

[Fnix]

[quote=laurietito;306339]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Offered combo job before the local hearing, denied the offer, deadlocked at local hearing, then discharged at national hearing.

Why didnt you take the combo job?

[Jones]

I'm curious, was there a police report? Who was ruled at fault in this accident? When there's a fatality it's a guarantee that someone is going to be ruled at fault, even if it's the dead person.

Advice I've always heard regarding terminations is that that unless you have an absolute slam dunk case that you know you can win at arbitration, you should take your job back the first time they offer it, ie, you should have taken that combo job.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you, it's tough being put on the street after 13 years.

[laurietito]

[quote=Fnix;306348]

Originally Posted by laurietito

Why didnt you take the combo job?

Because I have 2 kids/ wife works... Hard to find babysitter at 3 in the morning... Why should I have to degrade myself to sweeping floors/ loading trucks and no more driving when I didn't do anything wrong!!!!

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by tieguy

why are you reluctant to give details on the accident.

what happened in the accident and where or how were you considered grossly negligent.

I was attemting to cross an interesection, looked both ways, proceeded then heard a loud noise. The motorcyclist was traveling at an unsafe speed per 3 witnesses and swerving through traffic. He slammed into the side of the brown truck. I never saw him coming, had no idea what hit me. Discharged due to article 17 and they said the accident was avoidable!!! I am not reluctant to give details , ask me anything!

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by Jones

I'm curious, was there a police report? Who was ruled at fault in this accident? When there's a fatality it's a guarantee that someone is going to be ruled at fault, even if it's the dead person.

Advice I've always heard regarding terminations is that that unless you have an absolute slam dunk case that you know you can win at arbitration, you should take your job back the first time they offer it, ie, you should have taken that combo job.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you, it's tough being put on the street after 13 years.

The police report shows that the accient was caused by unsafe speed from the motorcylist. Circumstances that I caused the accident=none!!
I dont' regret not taking the combo job.... Gotta stick up for what I believe in!!

[705red]

[quote=laurietito;306339]

Originally Posted by tieguy

Offered combo job before the local hearing, denied the offer, deadlocked at local hearing, then discharged at national hearing.

Now why would you have a national hearing when you dont fall under the national agreement? If your in indiana then your in local 710 and like the local im in 705 were both under seperate contracts. In 705 none of our cases go to a national panel everything happens in house at panel then on to a local area arbitration. Please explain the accident, your hearings low level, local panel, so-called national panel. Please.

Ps danny boy you brought up a good point on how the back room deals are done at panels. Im proud to say that here in 705 those days are long over and every case gets heard for its self and judged on it, with no deals. Just ask management around here, last i heard there were 250 cases on panel here last thursday and 48 were addressed, all deadlocked. The company couldnt admit they were wrong in any of these 48 cases? I am looking forward to contract talks!!!!

[laurietito]

[quote=705red;306360]

Originally Posted by laurietito

Now why would you have a national hearing when you dont fall under the national agreement? If your in indiana then your in local 710 and like the local im in 705 were both under seperate contracts. In 705 none of our cases go to a national panel everything happens in house at panel then on to a local area arbitration. Please explain the accident, your hearings low level, local panel, so-called national panel. Please.

Ps danny boy you brought up a good point on how the back room deals are done at panels. Im proud to say that here in 705 those days are long over and every case gets heard for its self and judged on it, with no deals. Just ask management around here, last i heard there were 250 cases on panel here last thursday and 48 were addressed, all deadlocked. The company couldnt admit they were wrong in any of these 48 cases? I am looking forward to contract talks!!!!

I don't know if it's called a national hearing. It was a (JAC) hearing in Chicago. My accident involved a motorcyclist traveling so fast that I never saw him until he passed away at the scene of the accident after he rammed into the side of the brown truck!! The local hearing was deadlocked. I would love to know what was talked about after my case was heard!!!! How could my case be a discharge..... I will never know!

[rocket man]

I believe you did not do anything wrong. But I have a hard time believing you don't no the process of dead lock and the hearing process. I 100 pct belive the union represented you 13 years with the company as a valuauble employee. Just a couple of questions? Why did you make 10 posts - not the whole story at once. 13 years is a good standing member with union . How many union meetings have you been to over the years? Do you know where the union hall is? Did you know your agent's name and I don't mean your steward? Did you go to the panel hearings? And I don't mean the one at the hub? You should not be asking half these questions on this; you should almost have direct line to your local. I truly feel sorry for you and family. I mean it. Not just to you but who ever reads this your union is NOT A FIRE DEPT. They are there to put out the fires we start, but it's good to give the hall a call even when it's a good day. The agents like that, I recently learned first hand. Your dues are not wasted - panels etc . GOOD LUCK. Dont resign no matter what.

[705red]

[quote=laurietito;306366]

Originally Posted by 705red

I don't know if it's called a national hearing. It was a (JAC) hearing in Chicago. My accident involved a motorcyclist traveling so fast that I never saw him until he passed away at the scene of the accident after he rammed into the side of the brown truck!! The local hearing was deadlocked. I would love to know what was talked about after my case was heard!!!! How could my case be a discharge..... I will never know!

A deadlock does not mean your out of choices. From what you have said im sure your local will arbitrate this case, maybe not for you, but to insure they cant have this happen to someone else.

Originally Posted by rocket man

I believe you did not do anything wrong. But I have a hard time believing you don't no the process of dead lock and the hearing process. I 100 pct belive the union represented you 13 years with the company as a valuauble employee. Just a couple of questions? Why did you make 10 posts - not the whole story at once. 13 years is a good standing member with union . How many union meetings have you been to over the years? Do you know where the union hall is? Did you know your agent's name and I don't mean your steward? Did you go to the panel hearings? And I don't mean the one at the hub? You should not be asking half these questions on this; you should almost have direct line to your local. I truly feel sorry for you and family. I mean it. Not just to you but who ever reads this your union is NOT A FIRE DEPT. They are there to put out the fires we start, but it's good to give the hall a call even when it's a good day. The agents like that, I recently learned first hand. Your dues are not wasted - panels etc . GOOD LUCK. Dont resign no matter what.

Hes in local 710 which covers chicago, indiana and parts of iowa so in his defense he would have to drive into chicago to go to his meeting. I can tell you that i wouldnt make every meeting at that distance.

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by rocket man

I believe you did not do anything wrong. But I have a hard time believing you don't no the process of dead lock and the hearing process. I 100 pct belive the union represented you 13 years with the company as a valuauble employee. Just a couple of questions? Why did you make 10 posts - not the whole story at once. 13 years is a good standing member with union . How many union meetings have you been to over the years? Do you know where the union hall is? Did you know your agent's name and I don't mean your steward? Did you go to the panel hearings? And I don't mean the one at the hub? You should not be asking half these questions on this; you should almost have direct line to your local. I truly feel sorry for you and family. I mean it. Not just to you but who ever reads this your union is NOT A FIRE DEPT. They are there to put out the fires we start, but it's good to give the hall a call even when it's a good day. The agents like that, I recently learned first hand. Your dues are not wasted - panels etc . GOOD LUCK. Dont resign no matter what.

I didn't print the whole story at first, because I have never been on this website.. I did not know how it works. I know where the union hall is.. I know the agent's name.... he basically didn't do his job right... never set up any meetings to talk about case... I would have never resigned. I am a fighter... thanks for the comment

[705red]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

705red-

Have you ever heard of/been involved in a "8.3 appeal" ?
It may also be known as a "8-3 appeal".
If you have I would be interested in knowing the details.
Thanks.

Trick i have never heard of an 8-3 anything. Here article 8 covers national language and really has no merit in our local. Pm if you like and i can make some calls to gather what ever info your looking for.

[laurietito]

[quote=705red;306372]

Originally Posted by laurietito

A deadlock does not mean your out of choices. From what you have said im sure your local will arbitrate this case, maybe not for you, but to insure they cant have this happen to someone else.

Hes in local 710 which covers chicago, indiana and parts of iowa so in his defense he would have to drive into chicago to go to his meeting. I can tell you that i wouldnt make every meeting at that distance.

Thanks. I wouldn't wish this on anyone!

[covemaster]

If you are telling the whole truth here, and have gotten no where with the union and the EVIL EMPIRE, go to the national news and tell them the facts i'm sure ups would love to lead the national eveving news ie cbs abc ,nbc , fox or dreadfully cnn with a loyal great driver who was using his 5 seeing habits and got hit by a fool who police say was at fault and YOU GET FIRED through that in the Empires face !!!!!!!!! good luck !!

[paidslave]

Originally Posted by laurietito

I didn't print the whole story at first, because I have never been on this website.. I did not know how it works. I know where the union hall is.. I know the agent's name.... he basically didn't do his