Terminated For Gross Negligence

paidslave · 02-23-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jones

I'm curious, was there a police report? Who was ruled at fault in this accident? When there's a fatality it's a guarantee that someone is going to be ruled at fault, even if it's the dead person.

Advice I've always heard regarding terminations is that that unless you have an absolute slam dunk case that you know you can win at arbitration, you should take your job back the first time they offer it, ie, you should have taken that combo job.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you, it's tough being put on the street after 13 years.

This sould be slam dunk.....no tickets, no CRIMINAL CHARGES, witnesses saw motorcyle speeding, news channel reports accident, ect,ect, from what I see the ball was dropped on this one!

The only CASE brought here is a FEDERAL case UPS made of this grossly neglegent charge....

Drinking and Driving and speeding is grossly negligent!

coldworld · 02-23-2008, 03:30 PM

Intersection accidents are dangerous, especially if our drivers have a good view of all areas of the intersection. if it was a car speeding then you probably could have seen it, but these crouch rockets, going 100 miles an hour are a coffin on wheels. So, if the police report says that the cycle was 100 percent fault, could this person sue ups and get their job back. Had a death in our center, other cars driver died and our driver had no problems, but it wasnt an intersection accident. Whats the chances that this driver will get their job back? Lets say that this driver got seriously hurt, could they sue the family of the motorcycle if they tried to sue our driver??

tieguy · 02-23-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidslave

This sould be slam dunk.....no tickets, no CRIMINAL CHARGES, witnesses saw motorcyle speeding, news channel reports accident, ect,ect, from what I see the ball was dropped on this one!

The only CASE brought here is a FEDERAL case UPS made of this grossly neglegent charge....

Drinking and Driving and speeding is grossly negligent!

I admire your spirit of fighting for the underdog but this underdog got some splainin to do.

Per his story:

company made up gross negligence charges.

because motorcyclist with a death wish ran right into the side of him and he could do nothing to avoid it.

company somehow bribed or fanagled their way through a panel to win the discharge even though we had no cause and no reason to fire a perfect employee with a perfect record.

company did all those underhanded stuff because they wanted to fire him a guy with a perfect record for no reason.

but wait the company then offered him a settlement that would have allowed him to keep his job.

so company manufactures, lies, cheats and steals a discharge but yet then offers him an option that keeps his job?

don't make sense to me.

paidslave · 02-23-2008, 03:45 PM

Thanks TIE.

None of us here will ever know the whole story and truth.

If this happened to me I would be a wreck driving all day long. This has to be very traumatic for this guy. I am just trying to give some decent info and support and lend an ear....

You are correct TIE a JOB was offered and denied.....The bottom line there are no winners here.........very sad!

He still has his life, his family, and a chance to put his life back together. Motorcyclist won't have another chance!

This is never easy for anyone so count your blessings!

dannyboy · 02-23-2008, 04:58 PM

Tie, I agree that there are a lot of pieces of the puzzle still missing in this story. A lot of maybe's and comments made that sound like a story being woven as we speak. Dont know if he/she is a troll, but there are things posted that make me wonder.

As far as the combo job offer at a reduced pay, without the chance at future advancement, I would have turned that down as well. Existance is no life. While not really a dream job, a ups driver at least has a lot going for it, while a dead end inside job at a much reduced rate of pay goes no where.

Like I said though, a lot of information is missing from the story. Like links to the news article on the accident, copies of the hearings, etc.

As far as the travels to chicago to attend the hearings, If my job and future depended on it, your damn right I would go. Each and every time.

d

trickpony1 · 02-23-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 705red

Trick i have never heard of an 8-3 anything. Here article 8 covers national language and really has no merit in our local. Pm if you like and i can make some calls to gather what ever info your looking for.

705Red-
I'm sorry. I thought you were high up in the union hierarchy and knowledgeable of it's most intimate workings. Even I, as well as my impotent podunk union officials, have heard of an 8.3 appeal. Not that it did any good for the affected individual however. I figure a strong union stanchion such as Chicago would be acquainted with it.
I really don't need any info from you as I have seen how an 8.3 doesn't work. Feel free to research it yourself and we can discuss it here.
Thanks.

Jones · 02-23-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickpony1

705Red-
I'm sorry. I thought you were high up in the union hierarchy and knowledgeable of it's most intimate workings. Even I, as well as my impotent podunk union officials, have heard of an 8.3 appeal. Not that it did any good for the affected individual however. I figure a strong union stanchion such as Chicago would be acquainted with it.
I really don't need any info from you as I have seen how an 8.3 doesn't work. Feel free to research it yourself and we can discuss it here.
Thanks.

Well, I guess I'm not all that high up and knowledgeable either...what's an 8.3 appeal?

slowdriver · 02-23-2008, 05:42 PM

This is a sad story. Great company we work for right?... If you google... motorcyclist killed ups... you will find several stories.
I might of taken the combo job and then got a lawyer.. anycase get a lawyer now, contact the media, 60 minutes, dateline, cnn, whatever you might be able to shame them into giving you your job back.

705red · 02-23-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickpony1

705Red-
I'm sorry. I thought you were high up in the union hierarchy and knowledgeable of it's most intimate workings. Even I, as well as my impotent podunk union officials, have heard of an 8.3 appeal. Not that it did any good for the affected individual however. I figure a strong union stanchion such as Chicago would be acquainted with it.
I really don't need any info from you as I have seen how an 8.3 doesn't work. Feel free to research it yourself and we can discuss it here.
Thanks.

I can tell you that i know how the grievance procedures work from being presented to low level through to panel and end up with arbitration. But my friend i have never heard of an 8-3 appeal, can you please explain? I am a package car driver and a steward im sorry if you thought i was jimmy hoffa but im just like everyone else on this board.

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidslave

Did you sign resignation papers?

Never!!!!

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leftinbuilding

Can't say for positive, but I believe here in Calif you can be found at least partially at fault if you pull out in front of someone and they hit you. The fact he was speeding makes him liable also. It still seems to me we are missing part of the story. Was the cross street straight/level? Daylight? Weather? As someone said earlier, I can't believe UPS would leave themselves so openly liable to lawsuits without being absolutely sure in their position. And then every subsequent hearing agrees? Sounds funny to me...........

Weather was sunny... it was during the day... I had red flashing lights, he had yellow flashing lights... very busy intersection..

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidslave

This sould be slam dunk.....no tickets, no CRIMINAL CHARGES, witnesses saw motorcyle speeding, news channel reports accident, ect,ect, from what I see the ball was dropped on this one!

The only CASE brought here is a FEDERAL case UPS made of this grossly neglegent charge....

Drinking and Driving and speeding is grossly negligent!

I totally agree plus why are there other u.p.s. drivers involved in accidents with fatalities that get there jobs back!! Any one no of any let me know for my case.

2Slow · 02-23-2008, 07:11 PM

I have been sitting out because I have been trying to stay very anonymous. But here goes. (not gonna come off my name here though, sorry H)

He is (was) in local 135, not 710 or 705. (pension administered by 710 strangely though)

He's a good guy, but he was on managment's short list.
CM's boss (not sure what kinda manager he is called) really had it out for this guy. He was kinda slow as a swing driver, but it appeared to the other guys that he tried hard. He did not have a reputation with the drivers as being a slacker, but he made bad numbers.... That's the real cardinal sin that he commited.

BA doesn't have the best reputation... R.B. I guess the moderators remove it when someone posts actual names.

As far as I can tell he has been posting true stuff. I don't have inside knowledge of the issue, but it all sounds true. We did hear a rumor that he was offered a combo job at driver rate, but that was just a rumor.

We miss ya, H

DS · 02-23-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowdriver

This is a sad story. Great company we work for right?... If you google... motorcyclist killed ups... you will find several stories.
.

Yea but if you go to www.whtr.com they dont seem to have archived the event,at least I couldn't find it....Not that it didn't happen,but I'd like to read the news story if anyone can find it.

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tieguy

I admire your spirit of fighting for the underdog but this underdog got some splainin to do.

Per his story:

company made up gross negligence charges.

because motorcyclist with a death wish ran right into the side of him and he could do nothing to avoid it.

company somehow bribed or fanagled their way through a panel to win the discharge even though we had no cause and no reason to fire a perfect employee with a perfect record.

company did all those underhanded stuff because they wanted to fire him a guy with a perfect record for no reason.

but wait the company then offered him a settlement that would have allowed him to keep his job.

so company manufactures, lies, cheats and steals a discharge but yet then offers him an option that keeps his job?

don't make sense to me.

COMPANY DID NOT MAKE UP GROSS NEGLIGENCE CHARGES. I WAS FIRED FOR ARTICLE 17, WHICH IS GROSS NEGLIGENCE..
MAKES PERFECT SENSE, THEY LIKE CERTAIN PEOPLE.. THEY NEVER OFFERED SETTLEMENT, JUST A CRAPPY JOB WITH NO DRIVING...

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowdriver

This is a sad story. Great company we work for right?... If you google... motorcyclist killed ups... you will find several stories.
I might of taken the combo job and then got a lawyer.. anycase get a lawyer now, contact the media, 60 minutes, dateline, cnn, whatever you might be able to shame them into giving you your job back.

You are right, if you google it , it comes right up... First time I have actually done that. Thanks for the advice. So far lawyers are very expensive.....

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Slow

I have been sitting out because I have been trying to stay very anonymous. But here goes. (not gonna come off my name here though, sorry H)

He is (was) in local 135, not 710 or 705. (pension administered by 710 strangely though)

He's a good guy, but he was on managment's short list.
CM's boss (not sure what kinda manager he is called) really had it out for this guy. He was kinda slow as a swing driver, but it appeared to the other guys that he tried hard. He did not have a reputation with the drivers as being a slacker, but he made bad numbers.... That's the real cardinal sin that he commited.

BA doesn't have the best reputation... R.B. I guess the moderators
remove it when someone posts actual names.

As far as I can tell he has been posting true stuff. I don't have inside knowledge of the issue, but it all sounds true. We did hear a rumor that he was offered a combo job at driver rate, but that was just a rumor.

We miss ya, H

BY the way , I was never offered a combo job at driver rate, it would have been at combo rate, sweeping floors and loading brown trucks

dannyboy · 02-23-2008, 07:33 PM

And here is exactly why you got fired. Out of your own mouth.

Quote:

Weather was sunny... it was during the day... I had red flashing lights, he had yellow flashing lights... very busy intersection

I used to live up north, and the laws up there are like they are down here. Flashing RED means stop, then go if it is clear. Flashing yellow means caution, but you have the right of way.

So let me see, you pulled out of a stop at a flashing red light, and a guy on a cycle hits you on the side, one you did not see? And you claim you were not at fault in any way? REALLY?????????

I am impressed with your grasp of reality.

d

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboy

And here is exactly why you got fired. Out of your own mouth.

I used to live up north, and the laws up there are like they are down here. Flashing RED means stop, then go if it is clear. Flashing yellow means caution, but you have the right of way.

So let me see, you pulled out of a stop at a flashing red light, and a guy on a cycle hits you on the side, one you did not see? And you claim you were not at fault in any way? REALLY?????????

I am impressed with your grasp of reality.

d

Yes, I stopped and looked both ways and proceeded. IF HE WAS NOT SPEEDING ( 60-80 MPH IN A 35 MPH) HE WOULD HAVE NEVER REACHED MY BROWN TRUCK, HE WOULD BE ALIVE AND I WOULD STILL HAVE A JOB

dannyboy · 02-23-2008, 07:57 PM

I once had a wreck with a gray car that blended in with the roadway. He was speeding as well. I never ever saw him, and nailed him right on the drivers side door. I was doing maybe 5 MPH. But you know what, it was my fault. Totally. And but for the grace of God, I could have killed the guy that day. But never for once did I have the gall to think that I was not at fault.

Yes he was speeding. Yes, he should have had his headlights on. And he should not have run the light like he did. But as a professional driver, I missed seeing him. Period.

So why, with you just getting into the intersection did you not see the cycle? Did you not look down the road far enough? Even if he was doing 80 in the 35 zone, you should have seen him.

So my question is, why did you not see him approaching the intersection?

d

laurietito · 02-23-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboy

I once had a wreck with a gray car that blended in with the roadway. He was speeding as well. I never ever saw him, and nailed him right on the drivers side door. I was doing maybe 5 MPH. But you know what, it was my fault. Totally. And but for the grace of God, I could have killed the guy that day. But never for once did I have the gall to think that I was not at fault.

Yes he was speeding. Yes, he should have had his headlights on. And he should not have run the light like he did. But as a professional driver, I missed seeing him. Period.

So why, with you just getting into the intersection did you not see the cycle? Did you not look down the road far enough? Even if he was doing 80 in the 35 zone, you should have seen him.

So my question is, why did you not see him approaching the intersection?

d

I never saw him. I didn't just get into the intersection, I was almost all the way through. If I had 3 more seconds my truck would have made it.

brownmonster · 02-23-2008, 08:08 PM

Maybe he was in a hurry because his 175 stop, 8.2 hour dispatch, 9:20 leave building time, 25 minute drive to area, 17 NDA stop day got the best of him. Next time you stop at an intersection look see how far down each way you look. A cycle going 2 1/2 times the speed of tr