Terminated For Gross Negligence

[brett636]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Trick

I will have some answers pretty soon, not just verbal statements.

Contrary to what you posted, I am not on any side, only in search of the truth as to why this happened the way it did. Unfortunately, he has chosen not to respond to logical questions for any type of substance to his claims. Suposedly because he does not know how to do things on this site, but yet he can pm others with his sobbing, but he can not use it to forward real proof?

The one thing he continues to do is repeat that it was not his fault, because he did not see the cycle. The two things have nothing to do with each other. Not seeing it is one issue, being responsible for the accident is another.

But in his own accounts, there are too many statements that contradict each other. So unless I see something in writing, I really dont believe anything posted by him anymore.

I should have the police report hopefully by the end of the week.

d

I would like to think you aren't on anyone's "side", but you sure are launching a lot of personal attacks on the guy.

As I said before I cannot comment on the facts because I wasn't there and I have not seen the official reports. All I can do think about how I would act if I were in that situation. If the police report or a witness had said anything about me being in the wrong, and they offered me a combo job, I would take it without a second thought. If I thought there was a single iota of evidence that shows me being at fault in any manner I would not have turned down the opportunity to do a different job. In hindsight it would have been better for him to take the combo job offer and go back into driving in a year or so when everything blows over. He chose not to, and I can't imagine him making that choice if any official reports said he was at fault.

[dannyboy]

Brett

Go back to my first post on this thread. And that is the spirit I still have with his issue. The problem is that he is less than honest with his answers, has contradicted himself, and really has no clue. And it is with this in mind that I and many others have asked for additional data, which he refuses to give out. All we get is the watered down version.

And that is why you had to qualify your statement with "if".

So, we are right back to speculation instead of being able to give him proper and good advice.

If he indeed was totally inocent, why not post the information?

The fact that he claims he did not see him does not make him inocent of negligence, or release him from responsibility in an accident. If he did indeed see him and pulled out on purpose, that would then have become a criminal offense. My guess is that he misjudged the distance and speed, and thought he had enough time to clear the intersection. But until we get to see some documentation.........

Like Trick, I have represented many drivers over the years for many things. And I can usually tell if someone is blowing smoke or telling the truth. And I smell smoke.

d

[dannyboy]

Interesting read, the accident report. And once again you also gave partial information on the intersection, it had stopsigns where you were entering the intersection from.

forever 25, what a waste.

Now on to the subject matter.

Did you ever bother to read the accident report? Or did you place all your trust in the union rep?

I am going to ask your permission to post parts of it that would not have any personal information on it identifying you or the dead person. IF you give me permission, I will post the whole thing, without the personal information. If you do not, I will just post the needed information.

Trick

You have a PM.

But you do need to get a good lawyer on retainer, and then keep your mouth shut.

d

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by brett636

I would like to think you aren't on anyone's "side", but you sure are launching a lot of personal attacks on the guy.

As I said before I cannot comment on the facts because I wasn't there and I have not seen the official reports. All I can do think about how I would act if I were in that situation. If the police report or a witness had said anything about me being in the wrong, and they offered me a combo job, I would take it without a second thought. If I thought there was a single iota of evidence that shows me being at fault in any manner I would not have turned down the opportunity to do a different job. In hindsight it would have been better for him to take the combo job offer and go back into driving in a year or so when everything blows over. He chose not to, and I can't imagine him making that choice if any official reports said he was at fault.

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by brett636

I would like to think you aren't on anyone's "side", but you sure are launching a lot of personal attacks on the guy.

As I said before I cannot comment on the facts because I wasn't there and I have not seen the official reports. All I can do think about how I would act if I were in that situation. If the police report or a witness had said anything about me being in the wrong, and they offered me a combo job, I would take it without a second thought. If I thought there was a single iota of evidence that shows me being at fault in any manner I would not have turned down the opportunity to do a different job. In hindsight it would have been better for him to take the combo job offer and go back into driving in a year or so when everything blows over. He chose not to, and I can't imagine him making that choice if any official reports said he was at fault.

\


The evidence did show me not a fault that is why I did not take the combo job plus I would not have been able to drive for 3 years...

[dannyboy]

The evidence did show me not a fault

Wait a minute, that is not what it shows. It just says you did not break any laws that contributed to the accident. You plainly said, you did not see the cycle. Just because you did not see it, and the guy was speeding, does not make you not at fault.

Now, a question, did your defense include the video of the accident? You did know it was caught on tape, right?
d

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Wait a minute, that is not what it shows. It just says you did not break any laws that contributed to the accident. You plainly said, you did not see the cycle. Just because you did not see it, and the guy was speeding, does not make you not at fault.

Now, a question, did your defense include the video of the accident? You did know it was caught on tape, right?
d

Do you see the part that says driver contributing circustances under my name... it says NONE..... yes, i have a copy of the video... Why are you so obssessed with this????

[dannyboy]

Do you see the part that says driver contributing circustances under my name... it says NONE..... yes, i have a copy of the video... Why are you so obssessed with this????

See, thats another little tidbit that you did not mention, a live video of the accident. You knew about that, but forgot to fill in our blanks.

Why am I obsessed with this? Because they fired you. Apperently without good reason. And UPS usually does not get an independent arbitrator to go along with them without good cause. And I hate when UPS screws with an honest employee with no good reason. And somewhere, somehow the company got its way. Now, where to go from here.

What do you want the outcome to be, want your job back, want to go somewhere else to work? What is it you really want?

d

[laurietito]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

See, thats another little tidbit that you did not mention, a live video of the accident. You knew about that, but forgot to fill in our blanks.

Why am I obsessed with this? Because they fired you. Apperently without good reason. And UPS usually does not get an independent arbitrator to go along with them without good cause. And I hate when UPS screws with an honest employee with no good reason. And somewhere, somehow the company got its way. Now, where to go from here.

What do you want the outcome to be, want your job back, want to go somewhere else to work? What is it you really want?

d

All I have ever wanted is to be treated fairly.... too late to get my job back .. arbitation is over... just wanted a way to get back at U.P.S. for not treating me like other employees with fatalities that have there job back.

[dannyboy]

Originally Posted by laurietito

All I have ever wanted is to be treated fairly.... too late to get my job back .. arbitation is over...

Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.

d

[dannyboy]

Well, after scanning the report into the computer, the files are way to big to upload here, and when you size them down, the quality goes to bad to be able to read.

Here is the policemans statement of what went on:

Narrative

Driver 1 was traveling southbound on meridian has he approached the intersection of 40th/meridian driver 1 struck vehicle 2
Witness 1 stated that driver 1’s driving pattern was irregular and he was traveling at an unsafe speed. Driver 1 was traveling south bound on meridian from 58th St where witness 1 observed him pushing the vehicles and weaving in and out of lanes in an unsafe manner. There were 2 additional witness who stopped on scene that validated witness 1 by stating that driver 1 passed both of them at a very high rate of speed and continually changed lanes while traveling south bound on meridian, doing so in a very reckless manner.

Driver 2 was attempting to cross meridian while traveling west bound on 40th. After stooping at the stop sign driver 2 began to enter the traffic lanes when he was struck by vehicle 1. Vehicle 1 was a complete total and there was a very predominant set of skid marks traveling north from the crash site
Driver 1 was in very poor condition with arrival on scene, driver 1 was incapacitated and was suffering from an extreme loss of blood on the left side of his abdomen. Driver 1 was transported to Methodist and pronounced dead atXXXby XXX. DetXXX arrived on scene for tapped statements of the witnesses and the apt complex in the NW corner of the intersection provided a surveillance video that shows the impact of the crash. All of these were submitted inside the fatal packet
Driver 2 was released on scene, both vehicles were towed to interstate with a corners hold. The parcel delivery truck was unloaded to another carrier with the packages weighed
I took photos on scene and assisting officer XX helped with the field measurement. Driver 1 was driving while suspension convictions in the last 10 years and did not have a motorcycle endorsement but was driving with a permit that will expire in three days

End of report

The UPS driver was not charged.

d

[dannyboy]

Several things about this report that I wonder about.

1. What the camera shows about the accident
2. IF the camera shows you and your actions right before the accident
3. What you actually said to the detective at the scene in the taped
interview


UPS has all these things, and we do not. There might be evidence in those that would greatly affect the case with UPS.

d

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Well, after scanning the report into the computer, the files are way to big to upload here, and when you size them down, the quality goes to bad to be able to read.

Here is the policemans statement of what went on:

Narrative

Driver 1 was traveling southbound on meridian has he approached the intersection of 40th/meridian driver 1 struck vehicle 2
Witness 1 stated that driver 1’s driving pattern was irregular and he was traveling at an unsafe speed. Driver 1 was traveling south bound on meridian from 58th St where witness 1 observed him pushing the vehicles and weaving in and out of lanes in an unsafe manner. There were 2 additional witness who stopped on scene that validated witness 1 by stating that driver 1 passed both of them at a very high rate of speed and continually changed lanes while traveling south bound on meridian, doing so in a very reckless manner.

Driver 2 was attempting to cross meridian while traveling west bound on 40th. After stooping at the stop sign driver 2 began to enter the traffic lanes when he was struck by vehicle 1. Vehicle 1 was a complete total and there was a very predominant set of skid marks traveling north from the crash site
Driver 1 was in very poor condition with arrival on scene, driver 1 was incapacitated and was suffering from an extreme loss of blood on the left side of his abdomen. Driver 1 was transported to Methodist and pronounced dead atXXXby XXX. DetXXX arrived on scene for tapped statements of the witnesses and the apt complex in the NW corner of the intersection provided a surveillance video that shows the impact of the crash. All of these were submitted inside the fatal packet
Driver 2 was released on scene, both vehicles were towed to interstate with a corners hold. The parcel delivery truck was unloaded to another carrier with the packages weighed
I took photos on scene and assisting officer XX helped with the field measurement. Driver 1 was driving while suspension convictions in the last 10 years and did not have a motorcycle endorsement but was driving with a permit that will expire in three days

End of report

The UPS driver was not charged.

d

L its that time. You came on here asking for help. its clear Danny is willing to help you if help is possible. He's clearly invested a lot of his time and possibly some money to investigate your case. The help is there if you really want it. Some soul searching will be required. Only you know what you were doing when you pulled out in front of that motorcycle. At this point if you're sincere about getting help then you probably should turn this into a private conversation with Dan and be totally honest with him. The public forum here will not provide you any more then a little sympathy. good luck

[brett636]

Originally Posted by tieguy

L its that time. You came on here asking for help. its clear Danny is willing to help you if help is possible. He's clearly invested a lot of his time and possibly some money to investigate your case. The help is there if you really want it. Some soul searching will be required. Only you know what you were doing when you pulled out in front of that motorcycle. At this point if you're sincere about getting help then you probably should turn this into a private conversation with Dan and be totally honest with him. The public forum here will not provide you any more then a little sympathy. good luck

Dead on.

This thread took a direction I could not have predicted. L, take danny's offer for help seriously and talk to him privately about it. Maybe something will come of it, maybe it won't. Atleast see if you have any good options left at this stage in the game. Goodluck!

[blue efficacy]

You wouldn't take the combo job because it's degrading. You know that you are insulting thousands of part time and combo workers by saying that, right?

You sound like a real loser if that's your attitude. Your contempt for other UPSers makes me sick, and I am sure this played into Management and the Union not wanting you to work for this company anymore.

A combo job still pays several dollars higher than the median wage, and is a guaranteed 40. And you threw that away because you turn up your nose at hub/preload people.

You deserve everything that happened to you. And you should be in jail for vehicular manslaughter.

[trickpony1]

Danny-
I got your PM.
I'm up to my ears in issues right now. I've helped as much as I can. I'm not a BA or a steward, I'm just a feeder driver with some common sense.
I can tell you, based on several situations I am aware of, that a lawsuit against the company can take 2-3 years (and the company loves it).
I wish you and laurietito the best of luck.
Let's hope there is a God.

[trickpony1]

ADDENDUM........

Danny-
without having read any police report or talked to anyone personally involved in this accident, how could I have guessed the cyclist was south bound on Meridian Street and the shadows created by the afternoon sun and the trees lining Meridian obscured his image?

......just lucky I guess.

[dannyboy]

Trick

No, not lucky, experience. And that is one of the reasons this site has so much potential, because of the vast experience and backgroung of the workforce that posts and reads here.

The only reason I wanted to talk to you is because of the 8-3 issue but from what you have posted, it sounds like a real long shot for this case.

L

Its like this.

The union represented you all the way up the line, they even got UPS to give you another job temporarily while this thing blew over. Then when it got further up the line, it was deadlocked, so the union did their sworn job by you. Cant ask for more than that.

At arbitration, you would be asking us to believe that since you are totally not at fault, an independent arbitrator ruled that you were indeed grossly negligent based solely on the evidence presented. In my experience, neither the company or the union has the power to buy one off.

So now we are left with the fallout.

I see your options as the following

1. Try to sue UPS to get your job back. This is not really much of an option as in most states you mostly give up that right when you become represented by a union. There might be some exceptions and it may vary from state to state, but that is the reason you will never see us not represented by a union, teamster or otherwise. Even if you do not belong, by default they must represent you anyway. Chances for this working......0->5%

2. Trying to sue UPS for any type of settlement. This is a long shot as well, as you had your due process all the way to the arbitration. Chances of getting any money past a few thousand (not even enough to pay your lawyer) 0->5% but if you can find a lawyer that will take the case on a contingency, go for it.

3. Sue the estate of the driver of the motorcycle. This one has more posibilities, as he was very much out of control in his driving. But be aware, they will use the same evidence against you, including that UPS fired you for gross negligence. Odds of winning any kind of settlement from them.....0-10%.

4. This angle has the best chance. The guy driving the cycle did not have the proper driving permits for the cycle. The cycle was not his, and belonged to someone else. That person (actually his insurance) is responsible for what he does on that cycle, just as if the owner was driving it. There is the possiblity that you might be successful in bringing an action against the third party and their insurance. After all, in part because of the actions of the guy on the cycle, you lost your job and you have damages. This one also will be dependent on what the video showed and your recorded statements at the scene, and the transcrips of the hearings with UPS. Chances for getting anything, 0-25%.

So, to the first post on this thread, getting even with UPS is a very large long shot. And the other options do not have great odds either. The only way I would ever proceed with any of these options is if the lawyer works for a commission, you dont pay unless they get some money. That way, 1 they are honest about your chances of geting some money and not just taking yours, 2 you are not out anything but time unless they win.

At best though, I think what you will see in any case is a thought of offsetting penalties on both parties. So while to claim to be totally innocent because you were not charged, the fact remains you very well could/should have been charged with failure to yield the right of way with what I have seen and heard.

And that brings me back to that nagging little nasty feeling I get when I think about that arbitrator ruling that you were grossly negligent. There has to be something in the other evidence that proves the grossly part.

Now, lastly I want to offer one little bit of advice. You need to see someone about the mental stress you are suffering about this accident. Please please please, go get some counseling on this death. I have seen it tear people and families appart. What happened on that day will be with you the rest of your life, and I can tell by your posts, while you are putting on your best face, you are hurting. Do it before it affects your wife and children.

There are several things I did not post on, because they really will not have a bearing on what can get done here on this site.

And as Trick mentioned, the rest of the issue needs to be delt with off site. You have my phone number, and if it costs you to call, email your phone number to me at somethingfishie@hotmail.com and I will call you on my dime.

Either way, best of luck.

d

[over9five]

Originally Posted by laurietito

Why are you so obssessed with this????

Geez, L you've finally found someone who has gone above and beyond to help you. Why would you ask that? TAKE HIS HELP!