Driver terminated using gps info

IWorkAsDirected · 02-22-2008, 08:41 PM

We had a driver terminated last week. He had scanned and stop completed a NDA before getting to the stop. We get really reamed if we have late air. For awhile I was delivering late air at least twice a week even tho I ran straight air, I learned a long time ago to take the criticisim but do it by the book.

Aannny waay..... They have been bringing drivers in and showing them their gps movements, they are threatening to terminate for going off area for any personal reason, go to the bank, lunch whatever. This driver was caught being dishonest on a stop, but the gps info was the proof.

Our center manager said this: "Be careful what you do, with all this new technology I kid you not, they can almost tell you what color tissue you wipe your nose with out there."

finaddict · 02-22-2008, 09:20 PM

GPS info cannot be used in discplinary actions according to contract language. I'll be happy to privide the language and master contract section if you can't find it yourself.

IDoLessWorkThanMost · 02-22-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finaddict

GPS info cannot be used in discplinary actions according to contract language. I'll be happy to privide the language and master contract section if you can't find it yourself.

....based on data solely attained through GPS data.....GPS data plus something else, diff story. This new contract is not something to be proud of..

paidslave · 02-22-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

We had a driver terminated last week. He had scanned and stop completed a NDA before getting to the stop. We get really reamed if we have late air. For awhile I was delivering late air at least twice a week even tho I ran straight air, I learned a long time ago to take the criticisim but do it by the book.

Aannny waay..... They have been bringing drivers in and showing them their gps movements, they are threatening to terminate for going off area for any personal reason, go to the bank, lunch whatever. This driver was caught being dishonest on a stop, but the gps info was the proof.

Our center manager said this: "Be careful what you do, with all this new technology I kid you not, they can almost tell you what color tissue you wipe your nose with out there."

As we know the gps is flawed. If the customer verifys that he was late delivering the package then I think he may be gone temporarily. I do believe that a written warning needs to take place so the driver can correct his/her behavior!

LeddySS98 · 02-22-2008, 10:10 PM

I've Scanned a NDA before the 10:30 mark, but i've never released the package prior to getting there...I "THINK" your okay if you just scan it...and then release it once you get there.

As far as the GPS tracking... I have stops every day where i'm at the right place and the diad will go nuts with the 'winnin slot machine tune' it plays when your 'out of area' Is the Diad area and the GPS one in the same or are they different systems?

Same with my E-brake, I can set it at every stop but the dash still lights up reminding me i need to set the ebrake and plays the ongoing beep beep beep

outamyway · 02-22-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeddySS98

I've Scanned a NDA before the 10:30 mark, but i've never released the package prior to getting there...I "THINK" your okay if you just scan it...and then release it once you get there.

My sups tell me to that all the time. I saved a 140 piece NDA bulk stop scanning it at 10:28. I just got back from my 10:30 air run and the center manger practically drags me to the car. He's freaking out. "HURRY, HURRY, scan a package before 10:30, hurry up."

Yea, it's ok untill people catch on.

pretzel_man · 02-22-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidslave

As we know the gps is flawed. If the customer verifys that he was late delivering the package then I think he may be gone temporarily. I do believe that a written warning needs to take place so the driver can correct his/her behavior!

GPS is gathering data constantly. The accuracy is about 30 feet generally. If GPS says you scanned and stop completed a package a mile away from a stop, its probably right, don't you think.

P-Man

shrimpfire · 02-23-2008, 04:18 AM

Do it by the book and let them fuss, if u just run air before 10.30 there is nothing they can do if u have a late air, just say ran out of time when they ask

02-23-2008, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outamyway

My sups tell me to that all the time. I saved a 140 piece NDA bulk stop scanning it at 10:28. I just got back from my 10:30 air run and the center manger practically drags me to the car. He's freaking out. "HURRY, HURRY, scan a package before 10:30, hurry up."

Yea, it's ok untill people catch on.

Wake up! You are being dishonest and could be fired for this! Why help that sup and put your own hide in trouble? He will deny that he instructed you to do this when it is exposed. All you have to do is come to work every day and do an honest days work and you have a job for life. You are a fool!

Brown Dog · 02-23-2008, 04:28 AM

My CM sent me out yesterday with a NDA we knew would be late. He told me to scan it now, keep it "hot" and proceed directly to consignee. It was scanned before commit time and signed for after. I work as directed, it was done in front of several other drivers. What's good for the goose can get the gander fired. Be careful.

trplnkl · 02-23-2008, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

GPS is gathering data constantly. The accuracy is about 30 feet generally. If GPS says you scanned and stop completed a package a mile away from a stop, its probably right, don't you think.

P-Man

Not really, I have had that out of area warning go off when I was standing on the people's front porch. One day the dang thing went off for every stop for about 2 hours. Wanna talk annoying .

Also, in our center the time print is set with the "stop complete". There is probably an option on when the time print is done.

Ghost in the Darkness · 02-23-2008, 04:55 AM

Have you ever noticed that if you "details" then "not found" an EDD stop then type it in manually it usually just shows the dull orange circle instead of the green bulleye? I think for the most part GPS only works in corellation with the EDD. As far as the GPS goes, there have been days where a third of my stops are claimed to be at the wrong place... but since I rarely ever mis-deliver I know which one of us is right.

FedexExEmployee · 02-23-2008, 05:16 AM

A courier at my old station got fired for punching in a package delivered at 10:29 when it wasn't.
At Fedex, there is a report the managers can run called Planet Station. The report showed both the times and distance between stops. Apparently she delivered two stops one minute apart which were impossible to be done in that time/distance.

16 years down the drain.

Sure, she falsified, but what about the managers who falsify on a daily basis to make their numbers look good?

UpstateNYUPSer · 02-23-2008, 05:18 AM

Just curious as to why you would have to type a stop in manually, even after deleting the pkg from EDD as "not found". As long as you have a stop left in EDD, you can go back to a stop that you have deleted simply by scanning the pkg. However, if your EDD is complete, then, yes, you would have to enter it manually.

Back to the point of this thread, I can understand the driver not wanting to incur the wrath of his CM by scanning and stop completing the NDA prior to reaching the delivery stop. We are always asked to go through our NDA and let them know if there will be stops that we cannot get to by commit time (10:30 for certain ZIP Codes in my center) and they will re-dispatch those by simply handing them to another driver if the request is justified. Of course, we have those drivers who like to "pawn" off their work, especially NDA, so the on-cars look for this before moving NDA. It is true that if you scan a NDA prior to commit time and then complete the stop after commit time it will not show as late but is that what the customer is paying for? I can see if the commit time is 10:30, you scan it at 10:29 and deliver at 10:31, but in the post above Brown Dog was given a NDA that the CM knew would be late, told to scan it and keep it "hot", and then complete upon delivery. BD, do you recall how late the pkg would have been had you not pre-scanned it? One of the problems with doing this, and I'm sure you have all had one of these, is that we have customers who track every pkg and are literally standing by the door looking at their watch with the phone in the other hand waiting to call the toll-free to request a refund. These are the same customers who question our weather-related delays when the "weather" may have been at a hub a thousand miles away.

We are all adults here, we all know the rules, it is up to each of us what we want to do with this knowledge.

BrownGuy · 02-23-2008, 05:18 AM

If you are stating that you delivered a package when you didn't actually deliver it, you probably should be fired.

It sounds like everyone is condoning falsifying records here.

BusinessCasual · 02-23-2008, 05:37 AM

New contract: GPS can be used for discipline. Two drivers termed recently here. Driver #1 (married w/ kids) termed for going off route several times to help Driver #2 (girlfriend), shown in GPS, sparcs and witnessed by supervisor. Driver #2 termed for same stuff (helping boyfriend) PLUS excessive breaks, lying about excessive breaks when interviewed, and falsifying company documents (sitting under a tree for 2 hours stop completing prerecorded stops)...again shown w/ GPS, sparcs AND witnessed by supervisor.

trplnkl · 02-23-2008, 05:45 AM

I'm not condoning falsifying records, but this issue should not constitute a termination. This is nothing less than the company saying we can lie our arses off every freakin day, but you can't even fib once in a while. I know it isn't right for a driver to be dishonest, but when your judge is 100% more dirty than you, it just seems to a bit unbalanced. The steps to termination are pretty well spelled out in the contract, make them stick to it.
For future reference Shrimpfire is correct

Quote:

Do it by the book and let them fuss, if u just run air before 10.30 there is nothing they can do if u have a late air, just say ran out of time when they ask

tourists24 · 02-23-2008, 05:46 AM

There is a simple solution to all of this: scan the package the way the methods tell you to.

Why would anyone want to risk being fired for pre sheeting stops? You cant be fired for running an air late. You may get a butt chewing or maybe even written up, but you keep your job. You are supposed to sheet a package AT the stop; what's so hard about that?

raceanoncr · 02-23-2008, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusinessCasual

New contract: GPS can be used for discipline. Two drivers termed recently here. Driver #1 (married w/ kids) termed for going off route several times to help Driver #2 (girlfriend), shown in GPS, sparcs and witnessed by supervisor. Driver #2 termed for same stuff (helping boyfriend) PLUS excessive breaks, lying about excessive breaks when interviewed, and falsifying company documents (sitting under a tree for 2 hours stop completing prerecorded stops)...again shown w/ GPS, sparcs AND witnessed by supervisor.

Geez, we're all worried about GPS? These two coulda been caught using a pair of binocs! Been done before!

What's the matter, people? Heard the decades old expression, "Work as directed"? Why not try it! Don't sort car half-hr before start time. Don't run. Don't jump off docks. Don't speed. Look left-right-left. Do take lunch. Work by the methods. Sure, you'll be harrassed. But! You know what? You won't be fired for it. Oh, sure, they can try and now come back and flame about how many HAVE been fired for following methods religiously! But why not take a count. How many UPSers have been fired permenantly for following methods compared to those that have been fired for not?

HEFFERNAN · 02-23-2008, 06:19 AM

What I have noticed in my 13 years at the company, Is that troublemakers will get terminated over these small discrepancies. I'm sure these people have had other run-ins with management.

My question is that the original post did not mention when he physically handed the package to the customer. Did he sheet it at 10:29 but deliver at 11:15. No one will ever get fired if it was 10 minutes or so. And if you do, you were well on your way out the door by then.

UpstateNYUPSer · 02-23-2008, 06:31 AM

The quote by Shrimpfire had one important phrase--"...if you just run air..." We have had several drivers disciplined for late NDA that had delivered ground pkgs not in conjunction with a NDA stop before having delivered all of their NDA. Of course, if you can do that and still get all the air off on time, there is no problem, as I do that all of the time.

As I asked earlier and Heffernan also asked, I would be curious as to what time Brown Dog actually delivered the late NDA.

tourists24 · 02-23-2008, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

The quote by Shrimpfire had one important phrase--"...if you just run air..." We have had several drivers disciplined for late NDA that had delivered ground pkgs not in conjunction with a NDA stop before having delivered all of their NDA.

You are right about this NY... we've had drivers disciplined for the same thing.

One thing I might add,,, what does it matter what the actual delivery time is? The customer pays for a definite commit time (10:30, 12:00 etc). That time is very specific. It is our job to get it there BEFORE that time. Whether it was 10:31 or 1:31 is irrelevent. You either make it or you dont.