no rights whatsoever

jeannirenee · 06-23-2006, 12:40 PM

I am an employee of ups for almost 26 years..in 2000 I bid a combo job which reads preload/clerk/dmp. I was loading a truck when I first started but I was told by the union I could not do this I was worked as assigned ..so for the last 4 years that is what I've been doing..Two weeks ago pas came in effect and my center manager tells me today that I am at the bottom of the totem pole..I have no rights whatsoever even though I have seniority on every person on preload..The union makes special deals with the company and employees even when it jeopardizes seniorty. In fact they put in an article22.3 jop or should I say gave it to someone without even putting it up for bid.. When the vacation planner came out this person had seniority over me and I asked when they bid it and they said they did't and I ask if she lost any pay and they said no. She now has seniority over me because she has been at ups longer..but my seniority does not count at all on preload..and why all of a sudden now does everything change when I have been working as assigned for the last 4 years..my clerk work is all still there but they moved the computer...I do not even know where to go from here because at our center they make up the rules as they go along and they contradict each other and that is the union and the company..one side is as bad as the other..I guess I am not the squeaky wheel...HELP I am to old to unload for 5 hours and when I told my center manager I would do my best but I could not keep up with the 18 year old farmers he replied..why not? you will have too....

over9five · 06-23-2006, 04:37 PM

WHERE IS YOUR SHOP STEWARD?????

scratch · 06-23-2006, 05:24 PM

It sounds like you work in a place where everybody just believes whatever the management team tells them and you have poor Teamster representation. I would suggest that you read the contract as to how it is in your particular part of the country. If your job steward doesn't do anything or is just ignorant as to what the contract is, go to your Local Business Agent. It is his job to help you, that is what he is paid to do. Go over his head if you have to, one of the few perks we have as employees is seniority, that should matter somehow. The Combo job position was created way past my time, I'm not well versed as to what exactly your rights are.

06-24-2006, 06:28 AM

From the National Master Contract, "The Employer will treat employees with dignity and respect at all times, which shall include, but not be limited to, giving due consideration to the age and physical condition of the employee."

over9five · 06-24-2006, 09:11 AM

"...giving due consideration to the age.."

I quote that all the time to an older package car driver in my center. He runs like an idiot and skips lunch. I know one day he will keel over and die.

cashmen · 06-24-2006, 10:06 AM

He runs like an idiot?
Nah, he just doesnt milk it like most drivers do....its called work ethics and how do ya know he runs like and idiot?
are ya just mad cause he gets done before you?
Jean, contact the business rep....he should explain the contract for the combo job better for you!

yeldarb · 06-24-2006, 10:40 AM

What would you consider milking? Taking a lunch, and your break? Finding a good DR location? Following methods? Most old timers might be thought of as milkers by management, by never skipping their lunch, not letting their stops dictate if they need to go faster, and willing to come in late, rather than kick it off faster to get home in time for dinner. However, there is a reason why these "old timers" are still around. It is by taking care of their body, and not running through their day to get home early. I hear so often new drivers saying how easy a particular route is, and how big of a lunch they got on the route. It seems to me that quite often these "new" drivers are the ones that get tendonitis in their knees from jumping out of pkg cars, and spraining their ankles from running, and catching a corner wrong. I think most drivers go through it when starting out. The need to prove to other drivers ao be able to do, if your knees and ankles are giving out.

teamsterdan · 06-24-2006, 11:05 AM

sorry to hear abt. your situation, I too am a 22.3 (preload/feeder wash) employee.... for over six years now,and although I'm younger I was placed in a similar position to yours when pas came along.....when mgt. got up tight and I would get in their face I would have to unload when they were short workers and needed to get their #'s in order I would sort.....the advice of "Anonymous Brown Clown" is going to be your best protection, along with that I used what's know as "working to contract" start ensuring you become a master @ using the HABITS methods, do ALL of your over 70's have tape on ALL 6 sides??? are you using your loadstand?? taping up and toting as needed ??? following THEIR rules will not only make you a better employee but it will drive them nuts....

over9five · 06-24-2006, 11:09 AM

When I said an "older" package driver, thats what I meant.
Not a more senior driver. Not a lot of years in, just older.

He does a route in town, and won't take lunch with the rest of us. (Doesn't have time).

His work ethic is he wants his numbers to look good for the boss. I just don't want him to die.
And neither does UPS, or they wouldn't have agreed to the aforementioned quote from the contract.

Don't you agree, Cashmen?

cashmen · 06-24-2006, 11:52 AM

sometimes i skip my lunch, but not always...thats my priviledge casue i do like to get home to my 4 kids and my wife and like to make some of my kids games and if skipping lunch will give me that....then so be it!
Ive been driving for 11 yrs. 9 in AZ and last 2 in UT and im in very physical shape and i do run sometimes cause i cant go that slow, its just not in me to do so!
I have a rte thats 350 to 400 pkgs a day and about 130 to 150 stops a day and im done at 430 everyday and ive havent had a driver followup for about 6 months now....i get about 2-3 driver followups a year so i follow my methods and i do bunus quiet a bit and some drivers call me superman...thats just me!
So when a driver gets upset that i get done earlier than them....it pisses me off when they get upset about that....i also havnt had an injury since ive been with UPS(ive had a few broken bones outside of UPS) and ive had 1 accident in 11 yrs!
We all have arms, legs, and a brain and how you choose to use that is up to you!
If a driver chooses to work 10 hrs a day and chat with everybody customer and walk with a cane

then they dont need to complain about the ones who like to run their butts off to get home, and if you are in shape and strecth out every morning then you wont get injured!
We get paid big bucks by UPS to work our asses off and this coming from a former union steward(I stop being a steward cause i got sick of the politics by both sides) but im still a die hard teamster boy!
Thanks for listening and have a good day!

Just Lurking · 06-24-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashmen

sometimes i skip my lunch, but not always...thats my priviledge casue i do like to get home to my 4 kids and my wife and like to make some of my kids games and if skipping lunch will give me that....then so be it!

FALSIFYING company records is still a cardinal sin.

Or do you get to 05 your lunch everytime.

yeldarb · 06-24-2006, 12:47 PM

If one skips his lunch, he would need to make 1.5 hours in bonus, to make what he would have in the overtime he missed out on. Also, if one skips his lunch daily, doesnt PAS automatically increase the number of stops, because it sees it as a successful number?
Also, isnt there a certain number of hours worked per year required, to make that year qualify towards your pension? Isnt it about 2300 hours? I could be wrong, but I heard someone tell me that. I have never been concerned about that, because I get at least an hour OT a day.

cashmen · 06-24-2006, 01:06 PM

how is not taking a lunch falsifying? they take it out anyway! I never put my lunch in, cause the comp takes it out everyday, unless you ask them not to...which will never happen
I get an hour of OT a week!
No, your stop count doesnt change cause of numbers....thats a myth! at least taht how its with me. I dont complain, I just do the work and it hasnt change, hardly!
most of the time, I do take a lunch, I just don take the whole hour....to damn long, its usually 20 to 30 minutes i take!
Bonus counts toward your pension hrs......2300 hrs. dont know where ya got that info, unless your state contract is different....im western teamsters. we have the best pension in the US!
Like, I said I hate when guys get upset casue i run my ass off to get the work and do it properly.....I dont get upset when some of the guys work 10-11 hrs aday.....thats their priviledge, but they could get in trouble for stealing OT by Milking or whatever it is they do!

BTW: i bonus anywhere from hour an half to 2 an half a day....Ill take that over OT cause im still at home getting paid while im playing with my kids

Jones · 06-24-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeldarb

If one skips his lunch, he would need to make 1.5 hours in bonus, to make what he would have in the overtime he missed out on.

Not necessarily, yeldarb. Did you know that in some areas bonus is paid at the same rate as overtime? I'm not sure about AZ and UT, but that's how they pay it in VA. Bonus would certainly be less attractive here if it was paid in straight time, but then it's been in short supply since they put in PAS anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashmen

im western teamsters. we have the best pension in the US!

You sure about that? Our 30 year guys are leaving with over $4k a month right now, and I hear NY is pretty good as well....

cashmen · 06-24-2006, 01:19 PM

There are a few centers that dont even acknowledge bunus!
Wow, thats great that your bonus is OT pay!
I dont see how bonus at regular wage is bad? You are still working to get OT pay, as in bonus pay, you are off and still getting paid an hour later! ill take that over OT!
each driver runs the way the want to, and thats fine with me! Just dont complain about how run my rte is all im saying! the managers dont so why would they?

cashmen · 06-24-2006, 01:21 PM

ANyway, back to topic of thread...jean, you need to contact your teamster business rep and have him sit down with you to explain the Combo job and ask questions...that what your dues are for!
Each state is different!

tieguy · 06-24-2006, 06:36 PM

jean what rights did you fell you lost as a combo person?

Explain the vacation thing?

jeannirenee · 06-24-2006, 10:50 PM

I do not understand how they can just bounce back and forth as far as making rules as they go along which does not mean they even stick to the ones they make. As far as the union they said my bid was a totatally different description than what I remembered and so I ask for the bid and they did not even have it they were just going by what other people were telling them . The company didn't have a copy either and thank goodness I kept a copy myself so I ran it off for both of them. About the job I just do not understand how last week my seniority stood for something and now they are telling my that my seniority means nothing on the preload. Does anyone actually know what the combo jobs are supposed to be or where can I find info about it..no one has anything in writing even the union just goes by what they think it is. I just want one set of rules not this different every time you turn around and depending who you are talking to. As far as retirement by steward once told me he didn't know how it was going to work out I was the guinea pig could be really bad or could be good no one knows and he said no one could give him a straight answer and nothing in writing..I had 20 years part time and now I have about 6 years teamsters but they say I am not vested yet and I was told that it would be when I took the combo job..WHo knows....

06-25-2006, 12:03 PM

Used to have combo job, bid as pre-load / air driver (Tues.-Sat.). However they claimed there was insufficient air deliveries during the week, so they had me sorting the box-line full-time and Saturday air delivery. Eventually due to all the job changes they made to the original bid combo-jobs they went by seniority offering every combo-job employee that had there job changed the option to bump to a different one. I was told by labor and the union the combo-jobs were to be half work intensive and the other non-work intensive. Unfortunately the is no real clear language in the contract for them except they had to be created and from existing part-time jobs. There is always the provision in every bid "or work as directed", but that does not give them the right to force you to do something different from your bid job before forcing someone junior in same job. They used to always send a part-time sorter down to the unload at beginning of the pre-load however I choose to exercised my seniority and opted to go instead. Full-time should always have rights over part-timers doing the same job, but there are always exceptions to the rules. So for seniority purposes using pre-loading as the example job: like they can send part-time pre-loaders home before they hit overtime before allowing a combo-job pre-loader that is still on straight time to go home, extra work can be given to employees that have not yet received their guaranteed hours. When it becomes necessary for them to have employees do different jobs to lets say cover a call in or vacation, they should first ask for volunteers where seniority prevails, if no volunteers than they can force the junior employee in the job they selected. Could use a clearer question to answer more thoroughly or what they are specifically doing that you do not like.

tieguy · 06-26-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeannirenee

I do not understand how they can just bounce back and forth as far as making rules as they go along which does not mean they even stick to the ones they make. As far as the union they said my bid was a totatally different description than what I remembered and so I ask for the bid and they did not even have it they were just going by what other people were telling them . The company didn't have a copy either and thank goodness I kept a copy myself so I ran it off for both of them. About the job I just do not understand how last week my seniority stood for something and now they are telling my that my seniority means nothing on the preload. Does anyone actually know what the combo jobs are supposed to be or where can I find info about it..no one has anything in writing even the union just goes by what they think it is. I just want one set of rules not this different every time you turn around and depending who you are talking to. As far as retirement by steward once told me he didn't know how it was going to work out I was the guinea pig could be really bad or could be good no one knows and he said no one could give him a straight answer and nothing in writing..I had 20 years part time and now I have about 6 years teamsters but they say I am not vested yet and I was told that it would be when I took the combo job..WHo knows....

You're being a little to vague here Jean. UPS and your union have a listing of every combo job and a description of what it entails.

What specifically is it you are trying to do on the preload that your seniority does not allow you to do. Geez these posts of yours are starting to sound like a bunch of whining and crying. If you want someone here to explain things to you then stop the whining and start giving specifics.

If there is a vacation seniority issue then what seniority lists are you being carried on when you bid and why do you feel this is wrong?

ups79 · 06-26-2006, 01:47 PM

its the law, you become vested in a union after 5 years.

bear123 · 06-28-2006, 11:11 AM

It is imperative that one of the things we need to get in the contract is language for Art. 22 people. Becasue there isn't language the company can do what ever they want and they know it.

brown67 · 06-29-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashmen

how is not taking a lunch falsifying? they take it out anyway! I never put my lunch in, cause the comp takes it out everyday, unless you ask them not to...which will never happen
I get an hour of OT a week!
No, your stop count doesnt change cause of numbers....thats a myth! at least taht how its with me. I dont complain, I just do the work and it hasnt change, hardly!
most of the time, I do take a lunch, I just don take the whole hour....to damn long, its usually 20 to 30 minutes i take!

I'm in Colorado and we are required to take a full hour of lunch between our 3rd and 5th hour of work day. Its in our supplement (central states)to the national contract too. We must enter the break in everyday. We've been told that UPS has been sued over this issue, so we must take break unless we get permission from a supervisors. If you don't enter your break your supervisors will remind you the next day not to forget to do it.