Question about union and rules

bobs barricade tester · 03-08-2008, 08:52 PM

I work for UPS freight, and were having a discussion right now about rules, how does it work for you guys, when the company wants to add/change work rules. For instance they want to change a rule and make it more restrictive. Where does the union stand on this. Do they have anything to do with rules?

LKLND3380 · 03-09-2008, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobs barricade tester

I work for UPS freight, and were having a discussion right now about rules, how does it work for you guys, when the company wants to add/change work rules. For instance they want to change a rule and make it more restrictive. Where does the union stand on this. Do they have anything to do with rules?

This would be a better question for your Local President and/or Business Agent...

My thoughts are this... The local should be having meetings in the locals to come up with contract (Master Agreement). There will be a nationwide contract and then local suppliments that are specific to your region of the country - Southern, Western, Mid Atlantic, etc...

This contract will be in effect for possibly 5 years and when the company or union want to change the rules they must meet and hammer out a new contract. YOU will have to vote on accepting the contract...

Lets say in your building you have management that likes to bends the rules. One thing we have at UPS for part timers is over-time pay for EACH day you work more than five hours. So management does it's best to keep us from working over five hours - it hurts their numbers. Management may try to do "our" work in an effort to get employees out faster. That is taking time away from union workers so we file a grievence against UPS and get paid additional money for work the supervisor did. Lets say you keep a log and a supervisor does "union work" one hour a day for two months and it adds up to 40 hours. You file a grievence and get paid for 40 hours the Supervisor did at your hourly rate...

Part timers are guaranteed a minimum of 3.5 hours each day and lets say volume is down that day so they cut some routes. You show up for work to find out there is nothing to do... They can ask IF you want the day off and you can volunteer to go home without pay. You can say no, you want to work and then they must find work for you to do for at least 3.5 hours... If they send you home and deny your request to work, you file a grievence and get paid for the day off...

I hope these examples may have helped you...

The key to the success for the Union and UPS Freight workers is for each person to know their rights under the contract. UPS Supervisors and UPS Management will tell you what THEY BELIEVE is in the contract when they may have never read it. I have had Supervisors lie to me and after I point out they are wrong, a week later tell the same lie to a co-worker....

trplnkl · 03-09-2008, 03:29 AM

Until you have a contract the company can change the rules daily.

dannyboy · 03-09-2008, 09:06 AM

Contract and rules are two different things, or they can be the same thing. BUt without a contract, all you have is rules. And the man makes the rules as he/she sees fit.

While belonging to a union is far from perfect, it does make things clear as to what is expected. Problem is that a contract can be a two edged sword. I have seen times when the company wanted to do things for the employees, but were prohibited from doing so by the contract.

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Jumperwire · 03-09-2008, 10:33 AM

Basically what eveybody here is saying is get the teamsters and machinists in there get unionized. Until then the company can do what they want to you guy's. That may sound harsh but thats the way it is. Good Luck

bobs barricade tester · 03-09-2008, 02:32 PM

maybe I didn't ask it right. I shouldn't of said work rules.

What I want to know is about policies and procedures. After a contract is done.

For instance can the company come up with new rules whenever they want or do they have to be approved by the union?

Like 3 points of contact, no running things like that.

For those that asked my terminal has already signed cards they have been counted and we have already had meetings to give input on what we want in our contract. Our local told us each terminal will get there own contract.

trplnkl · 03-09-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobs barricade tester

maybe I didn't ask it right. I shouldn't of said work rules.

What I want to know is about policies and procedures. After a contract is done.

For instance can the company come up with new rules whenever they want or do they have to be approved by the union?

Like 3 points of contact, no running things like that.

For those that asked my terminal has already signed cards they have been counted and we have already had meetings to give input on what we want in our contract. Our local told us each terminal will get there own contract.

OK, those are the safe work methods and yes UPS can make them up as they go and/or change them as they see fit. However most of them will probably be copied from what they have been using in small package and feeders for decades. Those are designed to help keep all of us working in a safe manor to protect us from injury. They really do help. Kind of a PIA to learn and quote them verbatim, but in practice do alot of good.

bobs barricade tester · 03-09-2008, 04:27 PM

We have been introduced to some of the safe work methods, and a whole bunch of new rules, that is where guys are saying that once we are under a contract UPS can't come up with new rules. Unless the union negoitiates them.

I disagree I think they can.

We don't have a BA becuase were not union members until a contract is signed.

705red · 03-09-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobs barricade tester

We have been introduced to some of the safe work methods, and a whole bunch of new rules, that is where guys are saying that once we are under a contract UPS can't come up with new rules. Unless the union negoitiates them.

I disagree I think they can.

We don't have a BA becuase were not union members until a contract is signed.

Im not entirely sure what you mean by rules, but under my contract article 50 covers maintenance of standards and could apply to some of your concerns.

bobs barricade tester · 03-09-2008, 06:08 PM

General rules for instance, Our delivery drivers look through there trailers before they head out in the morning, that use to not be a problem, but now managers get an on property time report that shows how much time a driver spends on property before he enroutes to his first stop, and there trying to cut the on property time, so they came up with a rule no drivers allowed on the dock.

The 2 sides of the arguement are once we are union the company can't come up with new rules like this, unless the union approves them.

Some are saying the union has nothing to do with general rules like this just the discipline of them. Others say the company must get all rules approved by the union.

pkg-king · 03-09-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobs barricade tester

General rules for instance, Our delivery drivers look through there trailers before they head out in the morning, that use to not be a problem, but now managers get an on property time report that shows how much time a driver spends on property before he enroutes to his first stop, and there trying to cut the on property time, so they came up with a rule no drivers allowed on the dock.

The 2 sides of the arguement are once we are union the company can't come up with new rules like this, unless the union approves them.

Some are saying the union has nothing to do with general rules like this just the discipline of them. Others say the company must get all rules approved by the union.

I would say the union would not have a say in new rules like this. I'm sure your "rules" are going to be very close to ours. The bean counters are going to look at your present operation and see where they can cut cost, they will make guidlines and work methods that will have to followed. We have something similar to what you're saying in our package delivery side. After our start time we have like 3 mins of a PCM, then we have to be out of the building in something like 12 minutes, no time to sit there and go through our loads on property. You will be amazed at some of the things they will nit-pck in an effort to save a penny, it's only started for you, good luck.

bobs barricade tester · 03-09-2008, 10:17 PM

thnx for all of the replies, I am sure I will be asking many more questions.

trplnkl · 03-10-2008, 03:47 AM

I guess that anything that is allowed or not allowed are considered as rules. The negotiated rules are things like, seniority, pay scale/progression, vacations, etc. Other rules that may or may not be negotiated are like facial hair, required uniforms, safety, work methods, etc. I'm sure that whatever union y'all are using has negotiated contracts before so don't get too worked up over what may or may not be in the contract until you actually have a contract to vote on. And remember everything you hear or read is not always the truth.
Keep asking question, one thing that this forum has plenty of is opinions.