GPS Time Studies

[toonertoo]

Thanks Browniehound!
Actually the last few days have been a little better. Not because of anything they did, just less volume. Do more area. It amazes me that one day I can do 16.5 so they think everyday I can. But thats with a rare day of 200 pkgs. When I get a 350 del piece day, I do like 12, but am the same late. Physics I think would show, you cannot do the same sporh, as you do with 200. Many sups who have been gone since the change said they know its screwed up bad on mine and 3 others, yet they try to hold us to it. When I am 1 hr late I know Im scratch, and I think they do too. Based on what I used to do. Sometimes it bugs me bad, lately it doesnt as much. He yakked this am about 15 ph, then gave me 4 more areas, 10 more miles, and 3 pickups from someone else I had to pull for with a notification of 20 minutes. So it will be what it will. I made the most important stop when I got home. Have a great week.

[trplnkl]

One thing that management often over looks when discussing a driver being over is the automatic over when we leave the building late. Start time 9:15 add 8 minutes for the PCM.. 9:23....actually get out of the building, going down the road headed to the first stop.....10:00... 37 minute over allowed before the day gets started. This happens in our center 3 days a week.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by brownmonster

The same GPS that flashes when I'm at the correct stop? Good luck with that.

That is not a failing in GPS. GPS is a proven technology, the military has been using it for decades, as have hikers, surveyors, pilots, sailors, etc. etc. etc.

When you are making a delivery, the GPS knows where on the earth you are. The problem is, how in the heck does the system know where on the earth 2357 E Brownstone Place is to make the check? The satellites cannot tell it that. That information has to be put into a database by someone, at some point. Much of it comes from historical delivery data. It could be UPS got bad coordinate data from a third party such as the USPS. It could be that a Dispatch Supervisor or IE coordinator input incorrect information in a map matching program. It could also be that you, or a cover driver, or a driver who had the route before you, got five miles away and realized they forgot to stop complete that last stop at 2357 E Brownstone Place, and then did so, basically telling the system that address is 5 miles from where it actually is.

[tieguy]

I'm surprised with the amount of negatisism here on this subject. Many of you say the time allowance is already screwed up. Many of you have made the argument that the current method of timestudy is not accurate. If all this is true then in your eyes the process is already broken. Whats wrong with trying to fix something you think is already broken? Are we actually trying to defend a broken process?

[upsdude]

Fair Day's work for a Fair Day's Pay, nothing more. Screw their numbers.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by toonertoo

The only problem pretzel man about the time study, is they havent done one, in at least 15 yrs. Where I am.
Drivers see one side, you see the other, we are not always wrong, no matter what you may think.
So Like I said, a gps time study, I dont think could be any worse than one a decade and one half old.

here in lies the real advantage of these "automated" time studies if we can get them off the ground. It will be easier to complete several time studies by fewer people in a shorter time. Thus districts will be able to get caught up with the in many cases, woefully out of date standards. This will mean some routes that are cake walks to beat by an hour or more will get cleaned up, but so will routes that are always at least 2 hours no matter how fast the driver pushes it.

Hopefully, this tool will give a reasonable picture of a route and allow it to be done in much less time thereby allowing so many distracts that are years behind to get cleaned up.

Will it probably be calibrated to set the bar pretty high in terms of production expectations? Almost certainly, but then, what the heck would be the point of setting the bar low?

[1989]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I'm surprised with the amount of negatisism here on this subject. Many of you say the time allowance is already screwed up. Many of you have made the argument that the current method of timestudy is not accurate. If all this is true then in your eyes the process is already broken. Whats wrong with trying to fix something you think is already broken? Are we actually trying to defend a broken process?

And if you don't have to drag a sup with you all the better.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by upsdude

Fair Day's work for a Fair Day's Pay, nothing more. Screw their numbers.

absolutely, a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That language is in the contract. But, um, what exactly constitutes a fair day's work? (fair day's pay is already explicitly defined)

Should it be "their numbers" that is a fair day's work?

Or should it be whatever you feel like you can accomplish that day?

or maybe somewhere in between?

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by tieguy

I'm surprised with the amount of negatisism here on this subject. Many of you say the time allowance is already screwed up. Many of you have made the argument that the current method of timestudy is not accurate. If all this is true then in your eyes the process is already broken. Whats wrong with trying to fix something you think is already broken? Are we actually trying to defend a broken process?

Yes , a lot of the time studies are screwed up. But some were just fine until they were adjusted for things like use of the diad, EDD, etc.

If they had been re-time studied after the implementation of these various things (using the old method) then those time studies would more accuratley reflect the real world. But rather than re-study them, they were corrected using an abitrary number that was wishful thinking at best.

Tell me how you can take away time from a system (EDD) that plans your day for you and the end result of that plan amounts to more miles driven and less SPORH. This ,of course, only holds true if you follow trace.

No doubt that using the diad should make your day go a little easier and quicker. But the time savings is nowhere near the numbers projected by IE.

You won't get an argument out of me that the areas need to be re-studied. I just have my doubts about using a system that, while maybe not completely broken, has not woked "as advertised" yet in most places.

Whether it's a problem inherent to the system or just the laziness of the people implementing it, EDD just is not working. At least not working to anybodies benefit (the driver or the companies bottom line).

[browniehound]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

One thing that management often over looks when discussing a driver being over is the automatic over when we leave the building late. Start time 9:15 add 8 minutes for the PCM.. 9:23....actually get out of the building, going down the road headed to the first stop.....10:00... 37 minute over allowed before the day gets started. This happens in our center 3 days a week.

Trplnkl,
Excellent point. Where I'm from we are allowed 2 minutes for the PCM, ten minutes AM time, and 18 minutes to my area. Problem is, our CM talks for at least 10 minutes, and our trucks are not loaded when we get on the belt. Then we sit in traffic for 10 minutes because 200 package cars are leaving the builing all at the same time.

So with an 840 start Im supposed to be on area at 9:10 On a good day I'm there at 9:30. Right off the bat we are behind the 8-ball in regards to time allowance. How are we to make this up?

[Treegrower]

Couldn't care less. Time study Schtime Schudies. I let them have their talk and then their 3 day ride and then I file on harrasment. End of story. Then after 12 months or so I get a talking to and another 3 day ride and then I file. I get stroked by the usuall. You know, "you are the smoothest" Great methods, We had a great day ! only to be under 8 ond over 10 with a low SPROH. I cant do anything about your numbers nor do I care to. These numbers belong to you. I can't help you. Couldn't care less if they use the Pentgon's spy satellites to map my route. I do the job the way it is prescribed evrything is just smoke.

[feeder53]

In my line of business, we use geospacial electronics and it gives a rough estimate only when you take into the mix weather, Traffic, accidents and a thousand other variables so I would not worry about this type of time study. With a missle flying "as the crow flies" at a set rate one would think that we could tell to the inch.....wrong, air pressures, fuel weights......I would not worry.

[toonertoo]

Originally Posted by brownIEman

here in lies the real advantage of these "automated" time studies if we can get them off the ground. It will be easier to complete several time studies by fewer people in a shorter time. Thus districts will be able to get caught up with the in many cases, woefully out of date standards. This will mean some routes that are cake walks to beat by an hour or more will get cleaned up, but so will routes that are always at least 2 hours no matter how fast the driver pushes it.

Hopefully, this tool will give a reasonable picture of a route and allow it to be done in much less time thereby allowing so many distracts that are years behind to get cleaned up.

Will it probably be calibrated to set the bar pretty high in terms of production expectations? Almost certainly, but then, what the heck would be the point of setting the bar low?

That sounds fair to me. At least before the bogus 5.8 seconds per pkg, that we lost which turned us into 1 or 2 late overnightI knew if I had a good day or a bad day. How it would show up the next day within .15. I knew, now I havent a clue. I realize work has to be measured, I have no problem with that. But the measurment has to be accurate. I used to know how I gained or lost time, the day all the lights are green, and you cruise, all the idiots stayed home, etc. The day from heck when every stop is a battle. . Now its like reading the morning funnies. This is why the luster has gone for many of us. Because we work hard, to get done, not necessarily to make good numbers but to get home at a decent hour. That is a fair day. We know the business is such that some days there will be a 10 or a 12, and no one ever seemed to mind. But now its every day, every month, all yr. And I feel the lack of current accurate studies, is what caused the denegration of employee morale. I remember last summer getting home at dark in June. That should not happen consistently. IMHO

[UPSighDown]

I have worked with the GPS data from the DIAD. If the satellite map is good enough and the packages are sheeted by the methods you can tell if the package was left at the front or back door. Our security dept uses it to double check negative driver follow-ups. The problem with the Red/Yellow/Green indicator is as you say the comparison point. It is based on an average of all of the locations that the stop has been sheeted at. If your within 200ft of that spot green light.

If you get a red light where you know you are in the right place you are supposed to ask the sup to reset the stop so it can calc a new average. I bet most drivers have never been told this because the sups have enough to do without resetting a bunch of stops everyday. Besides are you really going to take the time to report it for such a minor issue? Human factor again on both sides and shortsightedness by the system designer for thinking that mechanism would work. It should be a great tool for the driver. Maybe if the reset request was built into the DIAD....

[Griff]

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by Griff

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.

While I generally agree with what your saying, I do think something needs to be done. I don't really care if I run early or late as far as the numbers go. The problem is that we are dispatched by those numbers. After months (if not years) of running late, you would think that someone would realize that here is a problem with the allowances. You would think that someone would suggest reevaluating those allowances. The only reason I can think of to let things continue as they are is to take bonus pay away from those drivers who are on bonus.

First , I am not in a bonus center. Back when they were voting on whether to have bonus or not, we had a lot of older drivers. They were suspicious of bonus and were sure that eventually it would turn out to be a bad thing. It was voted down and, in turn, I felt like I lost a lot of money because of that decision (yeah, I was somewhat of a runner in those days). I don't think that originally bonus was to turn out to be a bad thing, but in the neverending quest to cut costs it has turned the "standards" into a joke. It saves the company bonus pay at the cost of everyone running overallowed. That would be fine.....but they still try to hold you to those messed up standards.

Maybe someone is finally realizing that and are trying to fix it. I don't think GPS time studies is the answer.....but maybe I'm wrong. With the shoddy implementation of most of the tech advances in recent years, my faith in a good outcome is nil.

Time will tell. I'm just not holding my breath.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by upsdude

Fair Day's work for a Fair Day's Pay, nothing more. Screw their numbers.

DITTO!!

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by Griff

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.

Well said, punch to punch is all that matters as far as time.

[brownIEman]

Originally Posted by Griff

The union does not recognize your time standards. Doesn't get much more black and white than that. Fix the time studies all you want, it will not alter my work ethic or methods. Bonus, scratch, over-allowed is all the same to me, I get back when I get back. Come on the truck if you think your numbers are king, just make sure to pack your dinner.

not directly no. However, even the union recognizes that we have a business to run, and the evaluation of production is part of running the business. So in a since, yes the union does recognize those numbers.

For you it may make no difference. For drivers in bonus centers it certainly will. For the company as a whole it absolutely will. Changing the time studies may not alter your work methods and ethics, (and really, I would hope that is a superfluous statement, because they certainly should not for anyone) but they will alter your dispatch. Whoever is planning your dispatch is held accountable to dispatch you within a certain range. Most probably between 8.0 and 9.5. If the allowances for your area are way out of whack, you might get dispatched with an 8.5 hour day on paper, but even following trace and the methods and moving at a brisk pace, you are consistently hitting 11 hour days. Fix the time allowances and you fix the dispatch range, and voila, you get to see your family again. Although you take home less in OT and 9.5 grievance pay, but who the hell is going to put a price tag on family?

BTW, none of this will happen by working with your union reps. For this, you need to find a way to work with your management. Now, even then, it may not help. I will be the first to admit there are management folks at this company who just don't get it, and I would be happier than you if they would move on ( as my partners, they reflect on me to some degree after all). If you work with some of those, you have my sympathy and my hope that you will get some good ones soon. My impression based on your posts on this board however, lead me to believe that even if you do get some good ones in the future you will not recognize it and will immediately begin destroying any possible positive relationship you might have otherwise built with them.