GPS Time Studies

[browniehound]

BrownIEguy said:
"Now, any days for which I find a big anomaly, I throw out. I then take an average from what is left. Would that not get me fairly close to a normal day for your route?"

I would agree to this.

[Treegrower]

No one can screw you out of your lunch. During many a ride, various supes have said, "we're behind, no time to stop for a full lunch. Eat something quick while you sort." I declined. Pulled into a local on area diner and took my full lunch. I said "looks like you were wrong, I had plenty of time for lunch." Of course he had to call the center and get my pickups covered, but we had plenty of time for lunch. Just not plenty of time to do everything else

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by DorkHead

P-Man, How are they going to account for stop signs, traffic lights, and speed limit signs?? Can the satelites see on a angle??

I think I didn't clearly explain...

The GPS time studies only affect a portion of the overall time study. It more accuratley measures the outside walk portion.

Today, an observer watches you walk to a stop from your package car. He / she estimates the distance you walked and records it.

With this change, they will look at a GPS reading of where you parked and walked. They will compare it to a satellite map like Google or Microsoft.

The map will then more accurately measure how far you walked. It does not affect travel (stop lights, traffect, speed limits, etc.)

I'm certain they are looking to change that too one day.

This new process will be cheaper and more accurate, but it will not solve the entire problem.

BTW, part of the problem is that too much misunderstanding of how the process works exists.

That was evident based on what some people on this board have commented. So much of what was stated was inaccurate. This is from how the process works to the definition of overallowed.

My opinion, is that UPS should not have used time study to measure how an individual driver is doing or to calculate bonus.

Time study measures a job. It does not say where the problem exists. For instance, you know that if you have a poor load, it will take you longer to complete your day. You'll be overallowed, but its not your fault.

Time study is a better measurement of how well management is doing than how well a driver is doing.

P-Man

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Time study is a better measurement of how well management is doing than how well a driver is doing.

P-Man

Amen!! And by the amount of drivers that are overdispatched daily, they're not doing too well. Unless ,of course, that is the "plan".

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by soberups

Its too bad that IE doesnt always grasp the fact that we have a business to run.....for in the world of business we must dispatch routes based upon REALITY and not some absurd IE fantasy concocted by an "expert" behind a desk in a different time zone.

Again, there is a lot of misunderstanding on where time study and allowances fit.

Time study is "supposed" to measure effectiveness to to a standard. As I said before, it measures management effectiveness better than employee effectiveness.

Dispatch is not based on time study. If you take a look at the system used for dispatching, its based on PAID day, not planned day.

Paid day does take into account REALITY.

That being said, if a management person told you that they must dispatch a "scratch" day, then they are either not following the methods, or they are not telling you the truth.

P-Man

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Again, there is a lot of misunderstanding on where time study and allowances fit.

Time study is "supposed" to measure effectiveness to to a standard. As I said before, it measures management effectiveness better than employee effectiveness.

Dispatch is not based on time study. If you take a look at the system used for dispatching, its based on PAID day, not planned day.

Paid day does take into account REALITY.

That being said, if a management person told you that they must dispatch a "scratch" day, then they are either not following the methods, or they are not telling you the truth.

P-Man

Well, I hate to tell you this, but I must. Your last to posts are exactly bassackwards to what I and every driver I personally know have been told for 20 + years.
Everyday, we are told that the dispatch is determined by the time studies. We lose or gain time according to the time studies. Our (the drivers) effectiveness is determined by the time studies.
I'm not saying you are wrong or being untruthful, I'm just telling you what every manager and every supervisor I have worked under tell the drivers. Can they all be lieing to us? Shirley not.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

Well, I hate to tell you this, but I must. Your last to posts are exactly bassackwards to what I and every driver I personally know have been told for 20 + years.
Everyday, we are told that the dispatch is determined by the time studies. We lose or gain time according to the time studies. Our (the drivers) effectiveness is determined by the time studies.
I'm not saying you are wrong or being untruthful, I'm just telling you what every manager and every supervisor I have worked under tell the drivers. Can they all be lieing to us? Shirley not.

TRPL:

First, remember, there is a difference between overallowed and dispatch.

Here is an easy way to prove what I'm saying.

Ask your supervisor to show you the Dispatch Planning System. You will see a screen that shows every route in the center.

There is a column on the screen called Paid Day. There is another column called Target Paid Day. If an individual dispatch is greater than the target by some amount, the route will show red. If its less, it will show yellow.

The paid day is calculated by taking the time study value and then adding in any over allowed.

Remember, this is the planning system, NOT the one you see in the preload.

If your supervisor will not show you the screen, IM me and I'll send you a screen shot. In fact, I bet I can find the training materials that were given to the centers.

I'm sorry that this is backward to what you've been told. If you read what I said, its a failing of UPS that consistent, accurate information doesn't get to all our people.

Even though its been many years now, I've taken, worked up, and installed many, many time studies. Package, hub, feeder...

I used to hold training classes for drivers, sorters, etc. on exactly how it was calculated and used. I'm not saying that they liked the allowances any better afterward, but at least they understood the process.

As I did then, I thought it important to post the accurate information here, even if its different than the conventional wisdom.

P-Man

[JustTired]

So, basically you're saying that those that determine how many cars they want onroad have no clue how to use the data provided them by the system. Or they chose to ignore the data and purposely cut routes to assure that those remaining areas are overdispatched, therefore not the fault of IE.

If the majority of drivers nationwide are running overallowed, doesn't it stand to reason that the dispatch is out of whack and should be adjusted accordingly? Or is it the goal of operations to make sure every driver is out as late as lawfully allowed? If it's the latter, the only thing that not getting the numbers in line does is make everyone appear to run late. What purpose does that serve?

[Griff]

Originally Posted by JustTired

So, basically you're saying that those that determine how many cars they want onroad have no clue how to use the data provided them by the system. Or they chose to ignore the data and purposely cut routes to assure that those remaining areas are overdispatched, therefore not the fault of IE.

If the majority of drivers nationwide are running overallowed, doesn't it stand to reason that the dispatch is out of whack and should be adjusted accordingly? Or is it the goal of operations to make sure every driver is out as late as lawfully allowed? If it's the latter, the only thing that not getting the numbers in line does is make everyone appear to run late. What purpose does that serve?

It's real simple. It's a tool of harassment for management. If you put on their penny-loafers for a minute you'll see why a lot of the routes are completely bogus. It wouldn't behoove the company to have everyone running scratch as that would mean there's no room for improvement. They would have to bust balls elsewhere in UPS in an effort to reduce costs. Package car operation is a very expensive payroll and it's basically the only real area where UPS can save a lot of money through production. The game is tilted folks, the dice are loaded. It isn't ever going to get any better, don't look for it, just accept it for what it is and tell them your union doesn't recognize their time standards.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I think I didn't clearly explain...

The GPS time studies only affect a portion of the overall time study. It more accuratley measures the outside walk portion.

Today, an observer watches you walk to a stop from your package car. He / she estimates the distance you walked and records it.

With this change, they will look at a GPS reading of where you parked and walked. They will compare it to a satellite map like Google or Microsoft.

The map will then more accurately measure how far you walked. It does not affect travel (stop lights, traffect, speed limits, etc.)

I'm certain they are looking to change that too one day.

This new process will be cheaper and more accurate, but it will not solve the entire problem.

BTW, part of the problem is that too much misunderstanding of how the process works exists.

That was evident based on what some people on this board have commented. So much of what was stated was inaccurate. This is from how the process works to the definition of overallowed.

My opinion, is that UPS should not have used time study to measure how an individual driver is doing or to calculate bonus.

Time study measures a job. It does not say where the problem exists. For instance, you know that if you have a poor load, it will take you longer to complete your day. You'll be overallowed, but its not your fault.

Time study is a better measurement of how well management is doing than how well a driver is doing.

P-Man

As far as measuring walks.. is the gps in the diad? There are times (I know it's not the methods) that it just does not make sense to cary the diad to the door because the package is big, but not really heavy, (sometimes I just hate getting that hand truck out and in) and the diad would just complicate things.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by Griff

The game is tilted folks, the dice are loaded. It isn't ever going to get any better, don't look for it, just accept it for what it is and tell them your union doesn't recognize their time standards.

Hey.....I understand the "not recognizing standards" deal. I guess the price to pay for non-recognition is to work till 8-9 o'clock every day.

From a company standpoint.....I guess I would wonder why pour in the money to time study these areas when the union is not going to recognize them anyway. Ater all, it would be cheaper to live with the overallowed according to the present standards. It just doesn't seem fair that life as we used to know it is over. Gone are the days of getting home at a decent time. Oh well.....so much for driver morale..... and welcome eroded safety conditions.

I guess I'm from the "old school" of working hard then going home to some quality family time, not to mention having some pride in a company that, not only paid its' people well, but showed some concern for those people. I guess there's not a lot of room for concern in this greedy world we live in.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by JustTired

So, basically you're saying that those that determine how many cars they want onroad have no clue how to use the data provided them by the system. Or they chose to ignore the data and purposely cut routes to assure that those remaining areas are overdispatched, therefore not the fault of IE.

If the majority of drivers nationwide are running overallowed, doesn't it stand to reason that the dispatch is out of whack and should be adjusted accordingly? Or is it the goal of operations to make sure every driver is out as late as lawfully allowed? If it's the latter, the only thing that not getting the numbers in line does is make everyone appear to run late. What purpose does that serve?

Well, I don't know if the dispatchers understand how to use the data provided by the system.

I also don't know what their intentions are.

I do however know the dispatching methods and how the tools work. I assume I'm not doing a good job of explaining this.

Let me try one more time....

First, the dispatcher is supposed to determine a target paid day for each driver. For this example, lets assume its 9.40 hours.

Next, they are supposed to check the operation reports and determine the driver's average over or under allowed average time. For this example, lets assume this is a 1.00 hour over allowed driver.

The dispatcher then takes a representative day(s) from history (or a combination of history and actual package forecasts). The system calculates how much planned work is on that car. This calculation comes from the time study. In this example, lets assume that this is 8.75 hours of planned work.

The system then adds up the numbers and compares to the target. In this example, this is what we would have:

Planned Day: 8.75 Hours (From Time Study)
Over Allowed: 1.00 Hours (From Actual Reports)
Paid Day: 9.75 Hours (Planned Day + Over Allowed)
Target Day: 9.40 Hours

The system will show this route red because the Paid day is too much over the target.

Lets say that time studies change by .20. What would happen? The driver would then be .20 more overallowed (or 1.20 hours).

what would this do to the dispatch?

Planned Day: 8.55 Hours (From Time Study)
Over Allowed: 1.20 Hours (From Actual Reports)
Paid Day: 9.75 Hours (Planned Day + Over Allowed)
Target Day: 9.40 Hours

Even though the driver becomes more over allowed, the dispatch is not supposed to be affected.

Now, again, this is the method. Go look at the systems. If they are not doing this in your location, the cause is not the time study.

At this point, unless I'm still unclear, its your choice whether to believe me or not. If I'm unclear, I'd be glad to try and explain again.

P-Man

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by IWorkAsDirected

As far as measuring walks.. is the gps in the diad? There are times (I know it's not the methods) that it just does not make sense to cary the diad to the door because the package is big, but not really heavy, (sometimes I just hate getting that hand truck out and in) and the diad would just complicate things.

IWork:

Sorry, I don't think I explained this well. Your question is a good one.

The time study is not automated. A time study supervisor looks at the GPS readings on a map. They can see a satellite image like Google has.

They would see where you pressed stop complete.

They would mark the position where you park, and the position where you delivered. They would do this using the GPS readings and also looking at the map.

The map then calculates the walk distance.

It shouldn't matter whether you took your DIAD with you or left it in the package car. They should mark it properly.

I don't know what their plans are, but I would think it appropriate if you wanted to see what they did. You should be able to see each stop and where they marked your park and delivery position.

I think this would help make that part of the study more understandable.

P-Man

[soberups]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Even though the driver becomes more over allowed, the dispatch is not supposed to be affected.
Now, again, this is the method. Go look at the systems. If they are not doing this in your location, the cause is not the time study.
P-Man

What you are describing....is the theory of how it is "supposed" to be. Unfortunately, the theory and the reality are two completely different things.
Dispatch is controlled by I.E. The center team has no say in the matter at all. The center team is told by IE how many cars they will be allowed to put on the road based upon the projected number of planned hours. These projections seldom have any basis in reality. The center operates in the "real" world but the actual operational decisions are made in the "IE" world. The two worlds have very little in common.

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Well, I don't know if the dispatchers understand how to use the data provided by the system.

Most dispatchers understand it, but very few operations managers (operations managers, division managers, business managers, or on road sups) understand it. It really puts the dispatchers in a bind. That's why most of them hate their jobs.

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I assume I'm not doing a good job of explaining this.

You nailed the explanation - dead on.

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

The system then adds up the numbers and compares to the target. In this example, this is what we would have:

Planned Day: 8.75 Hours (From Time Study)
Over Allowed: 1.00 Hours (From Actual Reports)
Paid Day: 9.75 Hours (Planned Day + Over Allowed)
Target Day: 9.40 Hours


The system will show this route red because the Paid day is too much over the target.

The only thing I would add to this scenario is that there's a range of dispatch number that's also used - usually around 0.40 hrs. That means that you would add 0.40 hours to the planned paid day to determine the max stop level. The route would actually be dispatched at a paid day of 10.15 hrs if dispatched at its max.

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Even though the driver becomes more over allowed, the dispatch is not supposed to be affected.

Now, again, this is the method. Go look at the systems. If they are not doing this in your location, the cause is not the time study.

This is where the system breaks down. The centers are held accountable (to put it mildly) to make sure that all routes have at least 8 hours of planned work on them. To pay the above driver less than 9.5 hours the dispatcher would have to reduce the planned hours by an hour taking the planned hours to 7.75. The operations and division managers yell at the center teams for planning this route under 8 hours if they keep the driver under 9.5 and also yell at them if they pay the routes over 9.5. Noone will have an intelligent discussion and develop a workable plan that everyone agrees on. The center team isn't allowed to plan reality therefore the over-dispatching continues. We need for operations managers to understand this and provide some leadership...but I don't see any signs of it happening yet. I've never seen an operations manager or division manager ask to see how a route is planned in DPS.

Originally Posted by soberups

What you are describing....is the theory of how it is "supposed" to be. Unfortunately, the theory and the reality are two completely different things.
Dispatch is controlled by I.E. The center team has no say in the matter at all. The center team is told by IE how many cars they will be allowed to put on the road based upon the projected number of planned hours. These projections seldom have any basis in reality. The center operates in the "real" world but the actual operational decisions are made in the "IE" world. The two worlds have very little in common.

Actually, from an IE perspective what I want to see is honesty in the planning process more than anything. I advise you to do what P-Man mentioned earlier and ask your managers to see a screen shot of your route's DPS plan for tomorrow. It will show how many stops are planned on your car, your over/under plan, how many miles you have planned (which has a huge impact on your planned day), your min/max stops, everything. Remember when you see it that IE didn't make it - it was created by your local management team.

[IWorkAsDirected]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

IWork:

Sorry, I don't think I explained this well. Your question is a good one.

The time study is not automated. A time study supervisor looks at the GPS readings on a map. They can see a satellite image like Google has.

They would see where you pressed stop complete.

They would mark the position where you park, and the position where you delivered. They would do this using the GPS readings and also looking at the map.

The map then calculates the walk distance.

It shouldn't matter whether you took your DIAD with you or left it in the package car. They should mark it properly.

I don't know what their plans are, but I would think it appropriate if you wanted to see what they did. You should be able to see each stop and where they marked your park and delivery position.

I think this would help make that part of the study more understandable.

P-Man

Still a little confused. I always stop complete back at the car as that stop is not completed until I am back in the car ready to go to the next one. Are you saying stop complete at the door to show the walk?

[soberups]

Originally Posted by Will Work For PAS

Remember when you see it that IE didn't make it - it was created by your local management team.

But the impossible time allowances that my local management team is forced to base that dispatch on...as well as the the number of routes they are permitted put on the road... were all created by IE. My management team isn't allowed to make any meaningful decisions. All they can do is to try and find new and creative ways to get 10 gallons of crap into the 5 gallon bucket that IE has given them.