GPS Time Studies

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Trpl:

First, I honestly have NEVER thought you and others are a "bunch of dumb truck drivers". There is no way that you could do the great job you do if you were not skilled and intelligent. There is no way our customers would love you so much without those skills.
Thank you for the kind words, seriously.

That being said, I'm not trying to argue for time study here. You are correct that there is not a variable for age. You are also correct that the allowances are based on averages. Therefore, the larger the group, the more the averages "average out". For instance, they are more accurate for a center total than an individual drivers.
Are you saying that the "averages" used in our center are from OUR center's average and not a national average?

I was trying to point out that when it comes to dispatching, those inaccuracies are accounted for when we add in a driver's over / under allowed.
Is this for a given route or a given driver? I am a swing/cover driver, should they transport MY O/U from one route to the next or should I be measured on the route I am on in a given day? Some weeks I may run five different routes. Either way, it could be like comparing Apples and oranges.

In the example I mentioned, in order to hit the target dispatch of 9.40 hours, the planner should put 8.40 hours of "time studied" work on the car.

I don't know if they are doing that in your center, but that is the method. If that were happening, don't you agree that that clears up the issue?

OK, I am getting this part now and it does help clear up some questions but not the issue. To me the issue is that all men were not created equal and neither were UPS routes.
P-Man I'm not targeting YOU, just the system.

P-Man

[brownmonster]

We could start by giving back the 5.8 seconds.

[outta hours]

I did my own time study last week. I made a note of when I punched in and punched out. Then I added up the hours I worked and studied the amount of money I made for that day. It was a nice sum. My study showed that over allowed, under allowed, planned day, stop count,min/max,scratch,performance,cut/add,split,etc. had no effect what so ever on how long it took me to safely complete my day in the real world.The results of my study show that only two factors in regards to time have any impact on your day, and that would be your punch in and punch out times only. Why worry or introduce other needless variables to the formula. End of study.

[JustTired]

That's fine if you have nothing better to do. No family life, etc.

I'd prefer having time to spend with my family myself!

[outta hours]

Originally Posted by JustTired

That's fine if you have nothing better to do. No family life, etc.

I'd prefer having time to spend with my family myself!

I have a family also. I also have a job that pays me by the hour not a salary, and I owe it to my family to support them to the best of my ability. Does that mean I work 9-5 and make 80k a year? No it doesn't, and UPS never told me it would when I hired on. They did agree that if I worked past 9.5 hrs more than two days a week I can file a grievance against them to lower my dispatch. I enjoy nothing more that spending time with my wife and son. And I take exception with you implying that I have no life simply because I do not allow myself to be caught up in the time study drama.

[browniehound]

Originally Posted by outta hours

I did my own time study last week. I made a note of when I punched in and punched out. Then I added up the hours I worked and studied the amount of money I made for that day. It was a nice sum. My study showed that over allowed, under allowed, planned day, stop count,min/max,scratch,performance,cut/add,split,etc. had no effect what so ever on how long it took me to safely complete my day in the real world.The results of my study show that only two factors in regards to time have any impact on your day, and that would be your punch in and punch out times only. Why worry or introduce other needless variables to the formula. End of study.

I have to second that Outta, unless you are outrageously paid over and can't explain why or are on a route that is notorious for being 1/2 day paid over (large shopping malls come to mind), then don't sweat it.

Its not your problem. It only becomes your problem when you demonstrate it can be done in a certain time in front of a superviser and then do the same work in an hours longer time.

It appears we all agree time studies are unfair. My solution would be to get rid of the time studies. Give everyone a 3-day ride. What that ride produced should be what our standard should be.

I understand the company wants to know the parameters of its delivery areas, but I don't think the drivers should be held accountable to this number. We should be held accountable to the 3-day ride number.

I think this a fair compromise between company and union.

[pretzel_man]

TRPL:

Very good questions. Some answers below.

Are you saying that the "averages" used in our center are from OUR center's average and not a national average?

Yes and No... Lets take walks for an example. There is a national allowance for walking. Last time I measured it, it was based on a 2.78 miles per hour pace.

This is pretty fair, since the "average" person walks at 3 MPH.

Of course, like you say, some people are older and may walk slower. Some walks are up hill, some are with heavy packages or with many packages.

The 2.78 MPH "average" is a decent "average", but depending on the situation, it may not be valid for every individual situation.

Now, this national "average" allowance does get some customization for each area and center. When a time study is taken, the walk distance is measured for each stop.

The average walk distance for each unit is measured. Therefore one unit may have more or less walk time allowed depending on the distances measured.

Therefore, each center would have somewhat of a different amount of time allowed for walking depending on the distances measured.

So, back to my original point. The way "averages" work, the measure may not be applicable to an individual driver. Or it may not be applicable to an individual day.

However, because a center has lots of drivers, when you add up all the inaccuracies for individuals, they kinda "average" out.

Therefore, time studies are more accurate for a whole center than they are for an individual driver.

Is this for a given route or a given driver? I am a swing/cover driver, should they transport MY O/U from one route to the next or should I be measured on the route I am on in a given day? Some weeks I may run five different routes. Either way, it could be like comparing Apples and oranges.

Great question. I think each dispatcher does it differently. I will bet that they use the O/U for the route you cover.

I've never seen a writting rule on this, but because the system stores the O/U for the route, I would guess they use that.

P-Man I'm not targeting YOU, just the system.

I appreciate that. The system is imperfect, but at least its a system. Until a better one comes along, we should use this one as best we can.

I think the problem we have is that people try to portray it as if the system were perfect. This makes the imperfections seem even larger.


P-Man

[brownnblue]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

Trpl:

First, I honestly have NEVER thought you and others are a "bunch of dumb truck drivers". There is no way that you could do the great job you do if you were not skilled and intelligent. There is no way our customers would love you so much without those skills.
P-Man

Wow, I don't know if I've ever heard anything like this before. It sort of makes up for the BD newbie that came to a PCM a few months ago and said he would "not use big words" for us.

I don't know what to say. Thank you.

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

TRPL:

So, back to my original point. The way "averages" work, the measure may not be applicable to an individual driver. Or it may not be applicable to an individual day.

However, because a center has lots of drivers, when you add up all the inaccuracies for individuals, they kinda "average" out.

(1)Therefore, time studies are more accurate for a whole center than they are for an individual driver.

Is this for a given route or a given driver? I am a swing/cover driver, should they transport MY O/U from one route to the next or should I be measured on the route I am on in a given day? Some weeks I may run five different routes. Either way, it could be like comparing Apples and oranges.

(2)Great question. I think each dispatcher does it differently. I will bet that they use the O/U for the route you cover.

I've never seen a writting rule on this, but because the system stores the O/U for the route, I would guess they use that.

P-Man I'm not targeting YOU, just the system.

I appreciate that. The system is imperfect, but at least its a system. Until a better one comes along, we should use this one as best we can.

(3)I think the problem we have is that people try to portray it as if the system were perfect. This makes the imperfections seem even larger.


P-Man

(1) Yet they (the center team) individualize the scrutiny for a driver running over allowed. That part just doesn't make sense.
(2) I can see this happening although inconsistently. For example, one route I cover fairly regular the bid driver is a runner/gunner , skips his lunch and what not. This type of working has brought him more stops, cuts from other drivers and Air stops to deliver off his normal route on the way to his area. When I run his route, they expect me to do the same amount of work in the same amount of time. YET... on another route I cover frequently, the regular driver is much slower, takes his full hour lunch (on area) and therefore his expected load is reduced so he can finish. When I cover this area, they immediately add stops back to the route. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are picking on Trplnckl, I think they are exploiting the cover driver using unfairly compared allowances.
(3) this statement speaks volumes about the UPS I work for. All I really want is to go to work, do my FAIR day work and get paid my FAIR day pay.

Thanks again for your time.

[ups_vette]

Originally Posted by browniehound

I have to second that Outta, unless you are outrageously paid over and can't explain why or are on a route that is notorious for being 1/2 day paid over (large shopping malls come to mind), then don't sweat it.

Its not your problem. It only becomes your problem when you demonstrate it can be done in a certain time in front of a superviser and then do the same work in an hours longer time.

It appears we all agree time studies are unfair. My solution would be to get rid of the time studies. Give everyone a 3-day ride. What that ride produced should be what our standard should be.

I understand the company wants to know the parameters of its delivery areas, but I don't think the drivers should be held accountable to this number. We should be held accountable to the 3-day ride number.

I think this a fair compromise between company and union.

brownie....It's human nature that people don't like their honesty being questioned. It's also human nature that people feel they do the best they can at any task, not the best that CAN be done, but the best THEY can do.

That being said, allow me to relate what happened many years ago with UPS Drivers in New York City. Like most drivers today throughout the country, drivers feel the measurement on them is not accurate or fair. Your "brothers" in NYC complained and complained to the Union and UPS about the measurement, the same complaints you have today. After many meetings between the Union and UPS about work measurement, UPS agreeded to stop using work measurement in NYC.

The only items tracked by UPS were the packages, stops, miles, CODs, pickup stops and packages, and hours worked by driver. As the days became weeks and the weeks became months, UPS noticed a disturbing trend developing. Gradualy the hours worked increased for all drivers, while the amount of work performed for all drivers remained the same, or decreased. As I said, this did not happen all at once. After several months the same amount of work a driver had been previously been doing was now taking an average of one hour longer.

Needless to say, work measurement on every driver was reinstated and driver performance levels returned to where they had been before work measurement was eliminated.

This confirms another area of human nature....WORK EXPANDS TO THE TIME ALLOWED.

[JustTired]

Originally Posted by ups_vette

brownie....It's human nature that people don't like their honesty being questioned. It's also human nature that people feel they do the best they can at any task, not the best that CAN be done, but the best THEY can do.

That being said, allow me to relate what happened many years ago with UPS Drivers in New York City. Like most drivers today throughout the country, drivers feel the measurement on them is not accurate or fair. Your "brothers" in NYC complained and complained to the Union and UPS about the measurement, the same complaints you have today. After many meetings between the Union and UPS about work measurement, UPS agreeded to stop using work measurement in NYC.

The only items tracked by UPS were the packages, stops, miles, CODs, pickup stops and packages, and hours worked by driver. As the days became weeks and the weeks became months, UPS noticed a disturbing trend developing. Gradualy the hours worked increased for all drivers, while the amount of work performed for all drivers remained the same, or decreased. As I said, this did not happen all at once. After several months the same amount of work a driver had been previously been doing was now taking an average of one hour longer.

Needless to say, work measurement on every driver was reinstated and driver performance levels returned to where they had been before work measurement was eliminated.

This confirms another area of human nature....WORK EXPANDS TO THE TIME ALLOWED.

Just a few thoughts on this:
Maybe drivers felt that they could finally take their breaks and full lunch without being badgered or feeling like they were under the gun.

Maybe they could finally work at a safe pace instead of driving like they were qualifying for the Indy 500. Maybe they stopped running up to houses and back to the car.

We know it was most likely not a 9.5 issue or a DOT hours issue, as you stated that this was many years ago. You're always going to have those that try to take advantage of a situation. But unfortunately, everyone seems to have to pay for the few that do.

These days most drivers are up against the hours issue. A lot of them bring back undelivered stops. If you move the start time up (earlier), they might not get done any earlier but they may get more stops delivered.

Just a few thoughts.

[trickpony1]

Originally Posted by ups_vette

This confirms another area of human nature....WORK EXPANDS TO THE TIME ALLOWED.

I wonder if this applies to management also?
Of course, the implication is that management is so overloaded that they have to work 12+ hour days which can include trips to the barber, dentist, doctor, 2 hour lunches and meeting to show a house because a supervisor also has a real estate license.
If we got rid of several supervisors would the work get done as well if not better?

[ups_vette]

Originally Posted by trickpony1

If we got rid of several supervisors would the work get done as well if not better?

I know for certain that if we "got rid" of several disconted feeder drivers the work most definately would get done better.

[Forty6and2]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

(1) Yet they (the center team) individualize the scrutiny for a driver running over allowed. That part just doesn't make sense.
(2) I can see this happening although inconsistently. For example, one route I cover fairly regular the bid driver is a runner/gunner , skips his lunch and what not. This type of working has brought him more stops, cuts from other drivers and Air stops to deliver off his normal route on the way to his area. When I run his route, they expect me to do the same amount of work in the same amount of time. YET... on another route I cover frequently, the regular driver is much slower, takes his full hour lunch (on area) and therefore his expected load is reduced so he can finish. When I cover this area, they immediately add stops back to the route. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are picking on Trplnckl, I think they are exploiting the cover driver using unfairly compared allowances.
(3) this statement speaks volumes about the UPS I work for. All I really want is to go to work, do my FAIR day work and get paid my FAIR day pay.

Thanks again for your time.

All I really want is to go to work, do my FAIR day work and get paid for my FAIR day pay.

- well said

[outta hours]

Originally Posted by ups_vette

I know for certain that if we "got rid" of several disconted feeder drivers the work most definately would get done better.

Maybe you meant this

dis·con·tent·ed : Restlessly unhappy; malcontent.

and this


def·i·nite·ly

You may have been in a hurry and just mistyped after all "work expands to the time allowed".

[ups_vette]

Mr out of hours.....thank you