ethics in management

[feeder53]

Tieguy is right, why anon............Things are not always as they seem. If I were asked, I would give them my name as I have nothing to hide. I speak my peace....

[sx2700]

Originally Posted by UPS Lifer

Channahon has given you the correct advice! This is life - it is UPS - it is progress.

The sooner you realize this concept, the easier your life will be. ....and I am not just talking about your work life.

The whole purpose of life is to continue to grow, progress and improve to strive for the all elusive concept of Happiness with a capital "H"!!!!

Tell me that you don't have any goals and that you still want to be a loader 25 years from now. As you reach a goal you adjust and make a new goal to shoot for. Don't you do that in your personal life??

Hey man, I'm just stating a fact. Every day I have to listen to a supervisor squawk about numbers this and numbers that. We didn't make this goal because we were concentrating on the goal they were griping about the day before. It is a neverending vicious circle. Why can't people just go to work and do the job they were hired for without constantly being bombarded with BS? I feel a lot less motivated when someone is telling me on a daily basis what a screw up I am.

[nhguy]

With just under 25 years of service at UPS, I can tell you that the people at the center levels have very little power. The entire company is micromanaged out of corporate. The managers and supervisors of today are now employees, just like our union people. Up thru and including the division managers level, they no longer can make decisions. Simple decisons that used to be made with common sense and the customers best interest at heart are no longer the norm.

The public offering was the worst thing that happened to this company. With that being said, EVERYONE, has to learn to accept it and go on.

I will agree that respect goes both ways and that no matter who is calling the shots, treating each other with respect goes a long way on both sides.

Remember the big fish always eats the little ones

[Average at Best]

Originally Posted by nhguy

The entire company is micromanaged out of corporate. The managers and supervisors of today are now employees, just like our union people. Up thru and including the division managers level, they no longer can make decisions. Simple decisons that used to be made with common sense and the customers best interest at heart are no longer the norm.

I absolutely agree with that statement. The problem I've always run across is that we get these screwy decisions by corporate that make absolutely no sense. In my opinion, it is because of the shift in culture. Back in the old days, your upper, upper management was comprised of people that started as part-time preloaders and worked their way up. They knew how the system worked, and they took their early experiences on with them as they became corporate decision makers. Now, you seem to have a lot more people getting hired straight into your upper management positions because they have an MBA from Harvard or Wharton. I'm not knocking Ivy League grads, but UPS doesn't run the way a textbook says it should. You need those early preload/reload/hub experiences to make good decisions for the company. That way, you know how a hub runs by experience, not how your strategic management class told you it should run.

And I think some of the little Hitler behavior you see in some lower management is an off-shoot of this powerlessness. You have a fancy title like "Business Manager" but you can't change your goals, and you have procedures for everything from which direction to turn your vehicle (not left) to which type of copy paper to order through OASIS (the cheap stuff from Staples that sticks together). All you can do is march around with a puffed out chest, barking at the union people and feeding into an ego that, without the Hitler-attitude, might be sadly underfed.

Originally Posted by feeder53

I do believe that because the stocks went public, the problem increased. This is a prevalent patern in this type of move.

I disagree. Allowing hourly to purchase stock was the first "problem."

The second "problem" was allowing Teamsters back after they disrupted service in 1997.

You can talk all the rah-rah Casey stuff you want - he knew how to treat "employees" that proved themselves unworthy of employment - and he did it in SPADES - and in fact personally authored the contingency plan that UPS opted NOT to follow that would have replaced each one of you.

Going public was a move to prevent UPS from being spun off into a variety of companies through asset sales that were intended to operate using contractors.

It's still something they're going to be forced to do. It's just a matter of time. Tick-tock.

[dannyboy]

Channahon

I agree with your post

I do have one question

Jim Casey was a visionary, and over the years, UPS CEO's made changes as necessary to keep UPS competitive in the industry. Jim's people philosphy has always been taught at UPS along with providing the best service for our customers

You say it is taught? By whom? and what position do they have at UPS.

Then the big question. Since it is taught, why is it that the decision makers at UPS forget what they have been taught, and do just the opposite?

I am not sure that the sale to the public was the reason things went differently, but things sure changed around that time, and not really for the best.

d

[Channahon]

Dannyboy,

Formal training for UPS management is as follows:
New Supervisor Orientation - HR function
Supervisor Leadership School - Manager or Division Manager level based on discussion outlines assigned
Managers Leadership School - Division Manager level
Leadership Academy - Region/Corporate or Division Manager level

People policies are also discussed at District Staff Meetings and semi yearly Career Development Meetings for UPS management moves.

District HR will attend division/dept meetings at the request of a Division or Dept Head.

I don't have an answer for your big question, I can only speak from my experiences, and not for the organization or specific areas of responsiblity.

I will say over the years, most of the UPS management I worked with had decent people skills.

Now there is the occasional management person, who likes to throw their weight around, but you have that anywhere at UPS, including hourly employees who do everything they can to buck the system, and those employees are few within the ranks of UPS hourly employees.

That's life!!

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by 4KSMEW refresh image

I disagree. Allowing hourly to purchase stock was the first "problem."

The second "problem" was allowing Teamsters back after they disrupted service in 1997.

You can talk all the rah-rah Casey stuff you want - he knew how to treat "employees" that proved themselves unworthy of employment - and he did it in SPADES - and in fact personally authored the contingency plan that UPS opted NOT to follow that would have replaced each one of you.

Going public was a move to prevent UPS from being spun off into a variety of companies through asset sales that were intended to operate using contractors.

It's still something they're going to be forced to do. It's just a matter of time. Tick-tock.

You gotta be kidding? The move to go public was most certainly one of the major factors that sent this company on a down hill spiral. I'll leave it up to you to prove me wrong.
It was the CEO (his name escapes me) of UPS that engineered the strike, he and all his negotiators knew damn well that the union was never going to submit a proposal like their "first, last and best and only offer" go to the rank and file. I'm not going to debate the intricacies of a multi employer pension, but at the time the union was not going to give that up. EVERYONE knew that from the get go. I know of plans made many months before the strike that were stagged to go into effect right after the strike ended, that were going to be blamed on the employees for striking. They (the company) knew it would go into a work stoppage, hell they planned it that way. Then in the end, the company's "second, best and last offer" was exactly as the union proposed.

I don't see how allowing the hourly employees to purchase stock was a mistake. I do know there were many management people unhappy about it though.

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

It was the CEO (his name escapes me) of UPS that engineered the strike, he and all his negotiators knew damn well that the union was never going to submit a proposal like their "first, last and best and only offer" go to the rank and file.

Sorry to disagree with your opinion.
Carey engineered the strike, to try and combat the power struggle between himself and Hoffa.
He was up against a possible no confidence vote by the union and by an investigation by the government of trading union money to the democratic campaign for a donation to his election fund.
Ups's first offer, if taken, would have avoided the huge bale out that UPS had to supply to Central States to keep our pension solvent.
Thank you UPS, for to be willing to expense 6 billion dollars to protect my pension.
The CEO of UPS had to sign off on that amount of money.
What did the union have to sign off?
Jack, nada, nothing.
I know I am going to catch some heat for this post, but UPS saved my pension and I am grateful .

[soberups]

Originally Posted by satellitedriver

Ups's first offer, if taken, would have avoided the huge bale out that UPS had to supply to Central States to keep our pension solvent.
.

UPS's first "offer" in 1997, if taken would have allowed unlimited subcontracting at the discretion of the company. You wouldnt have a pension, because you wouldnt have a job.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by satellitedriver

Thank you UPS, for to be willing to expense 6 billion dollars to protect my pension.
The CEO of UPS had to sign off on that amount of money.
What did the union have to sign off?
Jack, nada, nothing.
I know I am going to catch some heat for this post, but UPS saved my pension and I am grateful .

UPS is getting that 6 billion back by screwing the part-timers who havent been hired yet.
Future new-hires have their starting wages frozen for the life of the contract, and will have to wait over a year for medical benefits. Progression has been lengthened.
It is naive to think that the CEO of UPS just "signed off" on 6 billion out of the kindness of his heart. It was a business decision, made with future profits in mind, nothing more. He doesnt care about you or your pension.

[Cezanne]

I believe that we are all missing the point about who was running the show with the Central States buyout and our current contract. Does anybody remember the Pension Reform Act of 2006 and how it pushed both the company and the union to early negotiations to prevent possible Federal intervention and mandated fines or penalties.

Does anybody know what the withdraw liability would of been for Central States was back in 1997? I would imagine it would of been alot cheaper than 6.1 billion, it could account for some of the deep bitterness expressed toward Carey and his strike action. The hate filled comment about us hourlies buying stock speaks for itself. The real time to own UPS stock was before it went public in the middle nineties, the only employees at that time to could purchase or given company stock at that time were in management. I believe the only exception to that rule was real old time hourly and or past participants in the UPS Thrift plan.

The question about controlling ethics in any power group would be answered by having true accountability for unethical and/or criminal activity. That is why it is so important that our company and union leadership plays by the rules. Case in point would be the ERON debacle, it just was not the handfull of corrupted, greedy executives that suffered, it also hurt alot more of the innocent employees who depended on their decisions.

[UPS Lifer]

If I remember correctly the buyout was around 600 million back in '97. I could be wrong, but that is the figure I recall.

[pretzel_man]

Originally Posted by soberups

UPS is getting that 6 billion back by screwing the part-timers who havent been hired yet.
Future new-hires have their starting wages frozen for the life of the contract, and will have to wait over a year for medical benefits. Progression has been lengthened.
It is naive to think that the CEO of UPS just "signed off" on 6 billion out of the kindness of his heart. It was a business decision, made with future profits in mind, nothing more. He doesnt care about you or your pension.

I think the pay for part timers is poor. I would like it higher.

Where does that money come from?

I find it interesting that you want to take credit for the good pay of full time drivers, but blame UPS for the poor pay of the part timers.

Isn't it all part of the same contract? I guess it wasn't important enough to either side.

P-Man

[UPS Lifer]

Originally Posted by soberups

UPS is getting that 6 billion back by screwing the part-timers who havent been hired yet.
Future new-hires have their starting wages frozen for the life of the contract, and will have to wait over a year for medical benefits. Progression has been lengthened.
It is naive to think that the CEO of UPS just "signed off" on 6 billion out of the kindness of his heart. It was a business decision, made with future profits in mind, nothing more. He doesnt care about you or your pension.

How do you screw some one that isn't hired yet?

The intent of the contract is designed for those folks who can vote at the time there is an offer.

If you hire on after the contract has been implemented you accept the terms of the contract. You are not getting screwed if you decide to work here. You make a conscience decision to accept the job. You can go elsewhere if you don't like the contract.

[Mike Hawk]

I think we are screwing ourselves by not increasing starting wage and delaying benefits. I don't know the actual figures but many part timers don’t even last a year so this job will be much less desirable when Taco Bell pays more, offers more hours and flexible hours. Oh and you don't have to bust your butt at Taco Bell either. Personally I am not looking forward to loading 8 trucks because they couldn’t replace the guy that quit.

[dannyboy]

Psss Hey mike, taco bell aready pays more. As does wendys around here.

Its hard to get up at 3:30 in the morning to go to work only to get 3.5 hours at the UPS min wage. and it is very very difficult to get good quality workers at that price. Most of the ones that do get hired on that are any good are married with kids. And insurance is a biggie for them.

They dont have to pay that, but it is the min they have to pay. If you will kindly notice, they can, if the situation warrants, pay more than what is in the contract.

We will have to see what happens over the next few years.

Times have sure changed from when I started part time, and you had to be a full time student just to be able to work here. But the starting wage was quite a bit more than what you could get working at mcdonalds.

d

[wannabeups]

Originally Posted by pretzel_man

I think the pay for part timers is poor. I would like it higher.

Where does that money come from?

I find it interesting that you want to take credit for the good pay of full time drivers, but blame UPS for the poor pay of the part timers.

Isn't it all part of the same contract? I guess it wasn't important enough to either side.

P-Man

Amen the Union sold out the part-timers. It is a clear case of people thinking only of themselves.

[Mike Hawk]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

Psss Hey mike, taco bell aready pays more. As does wendys around here.

Its hard to get up at 3:30 in the morning to go to work only to get 3.5 hours at the UPS min wage. and it is very very difficult to get good quality workers at that price. Most of the ones that do get hired on that are any good are married with kids. And insurance is a biggie for them.

They dont have to pay that, but it is the min they have to pay. If you will kindly notice, they can, if the situation warrants, pay more than what is in the contract.

We will have to see what happens over the next few years.

Times have sure changed from when I started part time, and you had to be a full time student just to be able to work here. But the starting wage was quite a bit more than what you could get working at mcdonalds.

d

I pray that I don’t read about UPS paying more than the contract requires over dinner, for I will surely choke from the shock. The benefit will have to outweigh the cost so exactly how short staffed will part time operations get before UPS raises the starting wage?