Pardon me while I go puke

[soberups]

Originally Posted by outamyway

If anything they are a safe driving reminder.

I absolutely do NOT want to get into a serious accident in an older truck with just a lap belt. Doing a face plant into the unpadded steering wheel, smashing the back of my head against the metal wall or god forbid being in a roll over, may be a career ending accident.

Yep....and the company will just remove you from the payroll and replace you with a new hire who will do the same job for $10 an hour less with 4 fewer weeks per year of vacation. I wonder...if they are able to repair the vehicle that you die or get maimed in, will they hose the blood out of the cab before they put it back in service?

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by soberups

Why not? The savings for the company are astronomical whenever they can get an old guy off the payroll and replace him with a new hire making $10 an hour less with 2 weeks vacation instead of 6 or 7. It stands to reason that the older equipment was designed with this in mind.

Well, let's see here. How much do you figure the company spends on one person having shoulder surgery and being out on comp for 6 months with physical therapy? Then you have to add in the cost of a replacement driver. I don't know the exact amount either, but I do know they would have to work a new hire a lot of hours to make up for that and then some. Then take into account that most people that have had to take "early retirement" have gone through more than just one very expensive bout with on job injuries. I'm beginning to think you may need to re-figure your estimates.

I own a 1976 Chevrolet 3/4 ton pickup. I have the original build sheet for it. That was the last model year in which shoulder belts were on option....and that option cost $30. UPS intentionally deleted this option on all its new package cars up thru the 1995 model year.
My truck didnt have shoulder belts when it was built. I paid a body shop to retrofit shoulder belts into it. The belts were $50 at a wrecking yard and labor was about $100 because they had to remove the seat and headliner.
Would it cost more than that to retrofit a package car? Probably...but its something they should have been willing to spend the $30 on in the first place. That is...if they gave a damn about our safety.

I agree that it would have been pretty cheap to have the 3p sb from the get-go and made our trucks much safer. Who do you reckon made that decision? I'm betting some bean counter who's biggest danger on the job is a paper cut. I would also bet that there was some research done to try and figure out how much money would be saved by spending that $30 per vehicle vs. amount spent on seat belt related injuries.
I have no doubt that UPS considers the employees an expendable asset easily replaced, but to say that the company plans FOR early retirement just doesn't make sense.
I am in no way saying that all trucks should have 3p sb, common sense says they should. But, You've said many times that the retrofit would cost $30 but now you admit that was a deceivingly low price compared to actual cost.

[deepsouthmamaw]

Did anyone actually time these plays or skits? My concern is time their concern is time. Lets say this skit took 3 minutes you are already 3 min over your time allowed to make delivery or pickup. But I bet it was more on the lines of 5-10 min which would add to my already 3 hrs over allowed. My area 125 deliveries 30 pickups is only a 6 1/2 hr day. Most days they try to send me out with 140. I just cant do it and be in and off the clock before 8 hrs. And to my amazement 140 is still not an 8 hr day.

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by JonFrum

Tie, Soberups is right. Although there are 8 Keys to Lifting and Lowering a Package, there are only 5 Keys to Lifting and Lowering a Candy Bar. There is no need to test for weight and shifting contents, use lifting aids, or grab opposite corners. This should have all been covered in Supervisor Basic Training School. Were you absent that day? I'm putting you in for a refresher course.

that was a stupid response.

[tieguy]

[quote=Griff;340432][quote=tieguy;340326]

The only reason automatics were introduced into the fleet is because its now cheaper to maintain an automatic. I was not only told this by one of our mechanics but by two different IE guys. You need to stop kidding yourself about UPS's "good intentions".

Wow a mechanic and two I.E. Couldn't you find a porter or carwasher to support your theory?

What he's describing isn't fun and whoever thought of the idea should be fired. You're dealing with grown men and women, stop belittling and talking down to your employees for a change. Treat us with dignity and respect, like the contract says, talk to us like we aren't autistic. Just the other day some pinhead walks up to me and starts telling me the KEYS TO DOG BITES. I'm not kidding, this guy told me about the signs a dog will attack. What's next from our "quality safety program", the 15 do's and don'ts of breathing oxygen? This company is dedicated to safety about as much as Chris Farley was to dieting and exercise.

The pinhead may actually have been right. the real pinhead may be the guy who didn't listen to the pinhead and got bit.

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by soberups

The sad part is, I'm not making this up.
We have "footprint" stickers on the floor leading to a room they call the "safety zone" which is full of posters, stickers and slogans. There is a TV there playing a safety movie continuously on DVD.
We have a checkered flag and a green flag over the office of the center that has gone the longest without an accident or injury.
We have a Safety Committee guy making $45 an hour on OT to put stickers on the windshield of each package car with the "safety slogan" of the day.
What we have...is a program that would be great for teaching a 2nd grader how to go pee pee and wash his hands all by himself like a big boy. It is not a program that is relevant to an adult who is spending 10 hrs a day fighting the equipment that UPS has provided to him.

That Safety Committee guy is coded over to 76 "UPS School" so it doesn't count against your buildings numbers. I would suggest joining the safety comittee so you can help put stickers on windshields.

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by cachsux

Gee,your lucky it`s only a candy bar. Around here it`s healthy prostate week.

And what happens when you bend over for the candy bar for healthy prostate week?

[LKLND3380]

Originally Posted by Griff

Yeah, I've noticed it for years, they run the place (safety especially) like a preschool, at least they have preschool teachers teaching us though. Gotta at least give upper management credit for that.

Not all the drivers got their doctorates from MIT, I think some drivers are Yale and Harvard alums.

Half of my preload are Princeton alums

[kenco80233]

Originally Posted by soberups

Yep....and the company will just remove you from the payroll and replace you with a new hire who will do the same job for $10 an hour less with 4 fewer weeks per year of vacation. I wonder...if they are able to repair the vehicle that you die or get maimed in, will they hose the blood out of the cab before they put it back in service?

We had a yard shifter get killed in a yard shifter {caught between the cab and trailer} years ago in Denver Co. As soon as they removed the body,a sort boss took the shifter threw the car wash and we used it on the next sort.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

Originally Posted by kenco80233

We had a yard shifter get killed in a yard shifter {caught between the cab and trailer} years ago in Denver Co. As soon as they removed the body, a sort boss took the shifter through the car wash and we used it on the next sort.

Not to sound cold hearted, but what exactly would you have liked them to have done with the vehicle other than what they did?

[kenco80233]

Originally Posted by UpstateNYUPSer

Not to sound cold hearted, but what exactly would you have liked them to have done with the vehicle other than what they did?

It should have been red tagged until an accident investgation was done to determine if it was a driver error,or a mechanical problem,which was parialy responsible for the accident,parlking brake out of adjustment and transmission would pop out of park..When OSHA arrived the next day,they had some choice words for the boss that instructed us to use it before it was checked out. I used that yard shifter for several years afterword with no problems.I learned long ago,that it is a bussiness,with very little consern for your personal feelings.As a boss once told me,leave your touchy feelings at time clock when you punch in.

[UpstateNYUPSer]

I have to admit that I didn't even think that the vehicle should have red tagged and put out of service until the investigation had been completed. I apologize for my post as I did not think before I typed.

[Fnix]

There could have been a mechanical problem that caused the driver to die, so when they put someone in the truck afterwards they could have died from the problem as well.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by LKLND3380

That Safety Committee guy is coded over to 76 "UPS School" so it doesn't count against your buildings numbers. I would suggest joining the safety comittee so you can help put stickers on windshields.

No thanks, I prefer to earn my money doing something that actually matters.

[soberups]

Originally Posted by trplnkl

But, You've said many times that the retrofit would cost $30 but now you admit that was a deceivingly low price compared to actual cost.

I have never stated that it would cost $30 to do a refit. I have always consistently stated that UPS "made a business decision that the life of the driver was not worth the $30 that it would have cost to equip the package car with a 3-point seat belt". Please feel free to go back and show me a post where I have stated otherwise.

[soberups]

[quote=tieguy;340752][quote=Griff;340432]

Originally Posted by tieguy

The only reason automatics were introduced into the fleet is because its now cheaper to maintain an automatic. I was not only told this by one of our mechanics but by two different IE guys. You need to stop kidding yourself about UPS's "good intentions".
Wow a mechanic and two I.E. Couldn't you find a porter or carwasher to support your theory?

Its not a theory. The Allison Duramax automatic transmission has been on the market for about 8 years now. Unlike previous automatics, it has an extreme-duty life expectancy of about 200,000 miles before requiring removal and overhaul. The Spicer 5-speed manual transmission that it replaced has a 250,000 mile life expectancy, but it needs a clutch rebuild every 15 or 20 thousand miles. Also, the newest generation of electronically controlled 4 cylinder diesel engines perform better when the engine management system can control the shift points for the automatic transmission to match engine output, RPM's etc. This wasn't necessary with the older PowerStroke and Cummins engines from the 90's. If you dont believe me, Tieguy, ask one of our mechanics.

[McBrown]

As someone who went to safety meetings for the free food then was tricked into the safety committee non-management co-chair, I don't know what to do with the whole safety committee!!

I realize that in the past, UPS didn't care about drivers safety or anyone's safety for that matter. It's a real tough sell and I don't know why they try to make me push it so much!

In my opinion, UPS should make sweeping changes to make safety the number one priority and not just an afterthought when something serious goes down.

A few years ago, we had a driver t-boned in an intersection. The truck was tipped over onto it's side and the driver of the other vehicle (passed out at this point) had their foot on the gas and drove into the cab of the package car. Luckily for our guy, the truck laid on the passengers side and the other vehicle was struck on the passenger side of the cab.

When the "investigation" was complete, management determined that it was avoidable because our driver failed to clear the intersection. These types of decisions cause everyone to think twice about how much of a priority safety is. It seems more like a blame game than a way to correct at risk behaviors!

I have not gone to the extreme of having my co-workers pick a Baby Ruth up off the floor. I have chosen to focus on what and who we are all working for. It takes the focus off of trying to avoid accidents and injuries to keep management off our case and puts it squarely on the set of big beautiful blue eyes my daughter meets me at the door with when I come home at night without having any accidents or injuries.

Some managers get ideas in their heads about a "unique & fun" way to spread the word about safety, but we all know what we're supposed to do! We all work in the parameters of the job and know what we can do and where our breaking points are. Dignity would be appreciated when it comes to safety. We're not all immature kids with our hands out for the next safety donut reward!

[tieguy]

[quote=soberups;340878][quote=tieguy;340752]

Originally Posted by Griff

Its not a theory. The Allison Duramax automatic transmission has been on the market for about 8 years now. Unlike previous automatics, it has an extreme-duty life expectancy of about 200,000 miles before requiring removal and overhaul. The Spicer 5-speed manual transmission that it replaced has a 250,000 mile life expectancy, but it needs a clutch rebuild every 15 or 20 thousand miles. Also, the newest generation of electronically controlled 4 cylinder diesel engines perform better when the engine management system can control the shift points for the automatic transmission to match engine output, RPM's etc. This wasn't necessary with the older PowerStroke and Cummins engines from the 90's. If you dont believe me, Tieguy, ask one of our mechanics.

your in a different arena , that response was directed to griff who is trying to deny the switch to automatics had anything to do with safety.

[coldworld]

Originally Posted by McBrown

As someone who went to safety meetings for the free food then was tricked into the safety committee non-management co-chair, I don't know what to do with the whole safety committee!!

I realize that in the past, UPS didn't care about drivers safety or anyone's safety for that matter. It's a real tough sell and I don't know why they try to make me push it so much!

In my opinion, UPS should make sweeping changes to make safety the number one priority and not just an afterthought when something serious goes down.

A few years ago, we had a driver t-boned in an intersection. The truck was tipped over onto it's side and the driver of the other vehicle (passed out at this point) had their foot on the gas and drove into the cab of the package car. Luckily for our guy, the truck laid on the passengers side and the other vehicle was struck on the passenger side of the cab.

When the "investigation" was complete, management determined that it was avoidable because our driver failed to clear the intersection. These types of decisions cause everyone to think twice about how much of a priority safety is. It seems more like a blame game than a way to correct at risk behaviors!

I have not gone to the extreme of having my co-workers pick a Baby Ruth up off the floor. I have chosen to focus on what and who we are all working for. It takes the focus off of trying to avoid accidents and injuries to keep management off our case and puts it squarely on the set of big beautiful blue eyes my daughter meets me at the door with when I come home at night without having any accidents or injuries.

Some managers get ideas in their heads about a "unique & fun" way to spread the word about safety, but we all know what we're supposed to do! We all work in the parameters of the job and know what we can do and where our breaking points are. Dignity would be appreciated when it comes to safety. We're not all immature kids with our hands out for the next safety donut reward!

great post, safety and trying to put fedex out of business should be what this company should be focusing on., thanks for your input!